Any retaliation planned over Heroes In Crisis?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I don't mind your posts. I mind you going "I was like you one day, young lad! I've learned from the mistakes you are currently making, and you should stop doing those things!" I'm liable to sprain my eyes I've rolled them so much. The rest of the content in them is usually fine even if I disagree. I mind like 20% of the given content of any post you make in direct response to me where you talk down to me. We're both adults here.

Ignoring you isn't really a good option because you are so active in the forum. It excludes me from the conversation, which is punishing myself. Ignoring your problems is not my style, anyhow, if that wasn't apparent enough.

How about this? I'll do my best to avoid convincing you to focus more on the positive if you try to post more about you love about the DCU (be it past or present, doesn't matter). Does that sound reasonable to you?

And you won't have to worry about me being so omnipresent on this forum soon. I'm due for a vacation followed by a lot of prep for my classes, so I won't have the time to convince you to be less grumpy all the time

[BohemiaDrinker]

If I've misunderstood how angry you are, then I apologize for misinterpreting your posts, but I think you can understand I would be confused about how upset you are about all this, can't you?

Wally is my favorite character. I try to keep the bullshit done to him in the light. I'm also a big and aggressive man who everyone thinks is angry all the time (which I'm really not), and yes, that seems to translate to my writing as well, so I'm also not angry at you for making that assumption (just to make that clear).

But: it's been 13 years, why stop now for no good reason, you know?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Wally is my favorite character. I try to keep the bullshit done to him in the light. I'm also a big and aggressive man who everyone thinks is angry all the time (which I'm really not), and yes, that seems to translate to my writing as well, so I'm also not angry at you for making that assumption (just to make that clear).

But: it's been 13 years, why stop now for no good reason, you know?

If you've been doing the same thing for 13 years with nothing to show for it, it might be time to try something different and see if you get better results.

I know you hate hearing this, but I'll keep saying it because it's true. Wally West will have his time in the sun again. He's too beloved by too many fans and creators for this to stick. You can dismiss this as my sunny, blind optimism again, but that's always preferable to cynicism and hopelessness.

You know why I believe this so strongly? Because that what I read about in comics. That's what Wally West would do. Be like Wally West.

[BohemiaDrinker]

If you've been doing the same thing for 13 years with nothing to show for it, it might be time to try something different and see if you get better results.

1) Not nothing. There's DCU: Rebirth.
2) If I stop now I lose. "Lose what?", you may ask: I don't know and I don't care, but I'm sure as hell not losing it.

I know you hate hearing this, but I'll keep saying it because it's true. Wally West will have his time in the sun again. He's too beloved by too many fans and creators for this to stick. You can dismiss this as my sunny, blind optimism again, but that's always preferable to cynicism and hopelessness.

I don't hate hearing this because it's optimistic. I hate hearing it because it's both what's been repeated ad nauseum for 13 years already (and THAT attitude never got anything to show for it) and because it's a passive stance that doesn't fit me. **** is wrong, we complain now.

You know why I believe this so strongly? Because that what I read about in comics. That's what Wally West would do. Be like Wally West.

You're verging on Tom King territory here with how wrong you're portraying Wally. Wally sees a problem, he's gonna solve it. If the solution is banging his head against the wall 1.000.000 times, he's gonna bang 2 million times just to make sure. Talking "hope" and shrugging is not Wally, it's for that crappy copy they got rotting in a jail cell.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

1) Not nothing. There's DCU: Rebirth.
2) If I stop now I lose. "Lose what?", you may ask: I don't know and I don't care, but I'm sure as hell not losing it.

I don't hate hearing this because it's optimistic. I hate hearing it because it's both what's been repeated ad nauseum for 13 years already (and THAT attitude never got anything to show for it) and because it's a passive stance that doesn't fit me. **** is wrong, we complain now.

You're verging on Tom King territory here with how wrong you're portraying Wally. Wally sees a problem, he's gonna solve it. If the solution is banging his head against the wall 1.000.000 times, he's gonna bang 2 million times just to make sure. Talking "hope" and shrugging is not Wally, it's for that crappy cop they got rotting in a jail cell.

He may be in a jail cell now, he may be erased from continuity again, he may be turned into MAGA-hat wearing redneck, but it won't matter because, sooner or later, the real Wally West will be back. Optimism is not passive, it's active. It doesn't mean not speaking up when something bad happens, either. I'm optimistic and you've heard me complain about Wally's treatment, haven't you? I just don't think that because things are terrible now, so they'll always be terrible.

Wally's return in DCU: Rebirth can be chalked up to optimism and hope for a better future just as easily as it can be to any of the endless cynical rants about how badly Wally's been treated. Geoff Johns didn't bring Wally back just because fans were always complaining about Wally, he brought him back because he loves Wally West and, like those fans, was upset that he'd been erased by the New 52.

I was bummed out by the New 52 and expressed my misgivings and dissatisfaction with it. It wasn't what I wanted from DC, so I left for a few years because I knew that, sooner or later, things would cycle back to more of what I was looking for. In the meantime, I focused on other stuff I loved until Rebirth pulled me back in. I was overjoyed to see Wally back, and then I was utterly bored with how mediocre Abnett's Titans was, expressed my problems with it, and dropped that book.

When DC is ready to give me a Wally West book that I want to read, I'll be waiting. I don't think repeating the same complaints ad nauseum again and again is going to speed up the process. Like I said, DC, and most of the comics industry are fully aware of what fans feel about Wally West and HiC already.

[Hol]

he may be turned into MAGA-hat wearing redneck,.

Please don’t give Tom King and Dan Didio any ideas. ��

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Please don’t give Tom King and Dan Didio any ideas. ��

I was aiming for worst case scenarios

That said, depicting Wally as a conservative wouldn't exactly be out of the question for his New Teen Titans era incarnation.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Wally's return in DCU: Rebirth can be chalked up to optimism and hope for a better future just as easily as it can be to any of the endless cynical rants about how badly Wally's been treated.

No It can't. It can be chalked up to the fact that when they were forced to ask themselves "Alright, what are we doing wrong?", there was a very clear message out there.

[Dred]

He may be in a jail cell now, he may be erased from continuity again, he may be turned into MAGA-hat wearing redneck, but it won't matter because, sooner or later, the real Wally West will be back. Optimism is not passive, it's active. It doesn't mean not speaking up when something bad happens, either. I'm optimistic and you've heard me complain about Wally's treatment, haven't you? I just don't think that because things are terrible now, so they'll always be terrible.

Wally's return in DCU: Rebirth can be chalked up to optimism and hope for a better future just as easily as it can be to any of the endless cynical rants about how badly Wally's been treated. Geoff Johns didn't bring Wally back just because fans were always complaining about Wally, he brought him back because he loves Wally West and, like those fans, was upset that he'd been erased by the New 52.

I was bummed out by the New 52 and expressed my misgivings and dissatisfaction with it. It wasn't what I wanted from DC, so I left for a few years because I knew that, sooner or later, things would cycle back to more of what I was looking for. In the meantime, I focused on other stuff I loved until Rebirth pulled me back in. I was overjoyed to see Wally back, and then I was utterly bored with how mediocre Abnett's Titans was, expressed my problems with it, and dropped that book.

When DC is ready to give me a Wally West book that I want to read, I'll be waiting. I don't think repeating the same complaints ad nauseum again and again is going to speed up the process. Like I said, DC, and most of the comics industry are fully aware of what fans feel about Wally West and HiC already.

Why does something bad happening not matter because it might one day be rendered irrelevant?

Doesn't that mean that nothing good matters because it might, too, one day be rendered irrelevant?

Things matter, stories matter, our time matters. Why are you so frivolous to the idea that 15 years isn't enough? And why are you so sure things will be fixed when there's more indication the industry will die before Wally ever gets fixed? This may be the last era of Wally comics we get if the industry maintains its course because Wally is not a valuable IP. Why twiddle your thumbs and accept bullshit?

Why do you think some magical fans from the past will one day take the reins and save Wally when they're already freaking close to creating the same length of time Wally was in prominence with him out of prominence? Where are those fans, why haven't they done anything? Nowhere! Comics are an old boys club. Life expectancy is high, old assholes remain in power far too long, and here we are.

Apathy for Wally seals his fate. He is not Superman, he is not Batman, he is not Wonder Woman, he's not even Barry Allen. He's not so essential to the creative makeup at DC that he just has to always get rebuilt, retooled, and reimagined. He's demonstrably so unimportant to DC that he can not be around for a decade and it doesn't affect their practices at all. He's expendable, and the second you forget about an expendable character they go the way of all those many characters who died in Heroes in Crisis. Forgotten fodder to the mill. Wally West, your next Gunfire or Lagoon Boy.

The very, only, true reason Wally West will ever continue to ever matter is because he has a fervent fanbase. Else he would've just stayed New 52 Wally. If not for the outrage, Wallace would be the only Wally West because that was and probably still is Didio's ideal for Wally -- as Barry's sidekick and nothing more. If you don't think outrage matters then you haven't been following Wally West. Do you know why Johns undid that? Because, like us, he was incensed by that and changed it. But you're saying we should STOP CARING! When caring is the reason he ever came back!

Why are you fighting for apathy? What if you convince this next magical Wally writer that he really shouldn't care? We can't all be the L'Ouverture of the story, but that man didn't change things on his own, he had a support base crying for the same things he wanted. Don't dissuade that.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Why does something bad happening not matter because it might one day be rendered irrelevant?

Doesn't that mean that nothing good matters because it might, too, one day be rendered irrelevant?

Things matter, stories matter, our time matters. Why are you so frivolous to the idea that 15 years isn't enough? And why are you so sure things will be fixed when there's more indication the industry will die before Wally ever gets fixed? This may be the last era of Wally comics we get if the industry maintains its course because Wally is not a valuable IP. Why twiddle your thumbs and accept bullshit?

Why do you think some magical fans from the past will one day take the reins and save Wally when they're already freaking close to creating the same length of time Wally was in prominence with him out of prominence? Where are those fans, why haven't they done anything? Nowhere! Comics are an old boys club. Life expectancy is high, old assholes remain in power far too long, and here we are.

Apathy for Wally seals his fate. He is not Superman, he is not Batman, he is not Wonder Woman, he's not even Barry Allen. He's not so essential to the creative makeup at DC that he just has to always get rebuilt, retooled, and reimagined. He's demonstrably so unimportant to DC that he can not be around for a decade and it doesn't affect their practices at all. He's expendable, and the second you forget about an expendable character they go the way of all those many characters who died in Heroes in Crisis. Forgotten fodder to the mill. Wally West, your next Gunfire or Lagoon Boy.

Okay, who said it doesn't matter when something bad happens? Who said you should do nothing? Who is advocating apathy here? No one.

Do you honestly think what I'm advocating here is doing and saying nothing? Nope. If your goal is good Wally West stories, fixating endlessly on the bad ones is not the solution to your problem.

[Dred]

Okay, who said it doesn't matter when something bad happens? Who said you should do nothing? Who is advocating apathy here? No one.

Do you honestly think what I'm advocating here is doing and saying nothing? Nope. If your goal is good Wally West stories, fixating endlessly on the bad ones is not the solution to your problem.

Uh, where you said when you didn't like something you just ignored it and focused on other things in the meantime? That's called ignoring it?

Anytime Wally is mentioned by someone who is new to the character there is effusive praise for the character's stories. The problem is obviously not love for his good comics. It's just that A: there's not a lot of new people coming in to talk about it and B: there hasn't been any good stories in a long time to talk about. There is literally nothing to say about Blitz or Terminal Velocity or Return of Barry Allen anymore. How great they are has been talked about thousands of times more over than how bad HiC is. But 15 years of praise leaves it a done topic. This is a bad thing that happened and that it is bad has to be emphasized. If it isn't then there's no incentive to stop. Sales were acceptable, and exactly what DC wants with stories like these is a brief period of anger and outrage to generate interest followed by in blowing over. Don't let it blow over.

Like, seriously, if no one talks about this being **** and someone 6 months from now picks up the trade, and no one's talking about how bad it is, they just think that's Wally West and that's it. Why wouldn't you rebuff the terrible new direction until it is no longer the direction?

It's like a sports fan shouldn't care that their team is **** this year because they won the title 20 years ago. As if recent things aren't more relevant.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Here's an idea that might be more productive for anyone who wants to do something positive with their feelings over Wally's poor treatment.

I was never a member of HEAT, but one of the smartest things they ever did was refocus their efforts towards doing good deeds in the name of the character they liked so much, which in turn got them press and kept attention on the problem they had with how Hal Jordan was being treated.

Why not do that? Take the money you'd be spending on a Wally West comic every month and make big donations to charities in Wally West's name, or start pooling your resources towards doing something you think Wally West would do, like sending Wally West comics to Children's Hospitals.

Do something with all this frustration and turn it into something positive, and get some good press in the meantime. I'm sure CBR, Newsarama, Bleeding Cool, and the rest would be happy to give you guys some attention for your good deeds.

[Dred]

Ah, here we go, HEAT.

It always comes back to HEAT.

Fucking great.

[Hol]

I was aiming for worst case scenarios

That said, depicting Wally as a conservative wouldn't exactly be out of the question for his New Teen Titans era incarnation.

Correct sir but there’s conservative and then there is MAGA.

[Hol]

Ah, here we go, HEAT.

It always comes back to HEAT.

Fucking great.

Remember BASH? Lol.