Who do you blame for the mutant wipeout at the end of House of M?

[Star_Jammer]

and this is why it's mainly Bendis' fault. it makes no sense for Wanda to be grieving at this juncture.

Devolving Wanda into crying about her missing babies, and then further turning her into a "I miss my daddy" character was seriously gross.

[XPac]

Devolving Wanda into crying about her missing babies, and then further turning her into a "I miss my daddy" character was seriously gross.

It's sort of similar to some of the stuff we saw with Hank around this time. It honestly might have made more sense if it happened a decade ago or whatever. There was a time when I think you could justify both Hank and Wanda being kinda messed up over some of the things that happened in their lives.

But both went through such a relatively long strength of being reasonably fine for so long that when their issues all suddenly popped up again out of nowhere, it was kinda jarring.

[comicscollector]

I blame Wanda.
She being responsible for the mutante wipeout was surprising but then i remembered that Wanda in the West Coast Avengers turned in a villain as well.So thats something that have sort of a precedent.
I think the unstable nature of the Chaos magic is something that should be taken in consideration when discussing those actions by Wanda.
Wanda was trained by Agatha ,but i think that is something that must have taken a toll in Wanda personality.Plus the unstable relationships of Wanda with her family (Pietro,Magneto) and her being in love with a robot are all things i keep in mind to make me not say that she is a evil natured character but does not wash away the culpability of the mutante wipeout of House of M.

[Iron Maiden]

I'm definitely not saying Erik and Pietro are right for trying to run away from their own responsibilities. As a matter of fact, I agree they share some of the blame for the things that happened within HOM. But the thing is: during that story, they were trying to protect Wanda at all costs. They wanted the X-Men to back off of her, so I can see why they would be so quick to use Doom as their scapegoat. But Doom himself? Like I said, I don't think he genuinely cared for Wanda, so I don't think he had any reason to take the blame for her. Erik and Pietro's words might've not been sincere, but I think Doom's were. Bottom line is: Doom was not responsible for the specific actions of the Magnus family, but those actions only happened in the first place because he pulled some strings before.

I do think he did care for her but not enough to give up all of his old ways. We saw when he got accidentally powered up when Eli took a shot at him during the attempt to give Wanda the power to restore mutants harmed by M Day.

He cared enough that he gave her shelter for a period of time where she was stable and content. The Avengers and X-Men just let her wander around on her own. When Hawkeye encountered her in an obviously state of amnesia, he's OK with having sex with her. That was sleazy.

Again: I don't think he planned House Of M. That was not his end goal. House Of M was a side effect of his end goal: he wanted Wanda to have the kind of power that was useful to him, and that kind of power ended up creating House Of M. Like I said, while he didn't plan the specifics, he didn't regret being the person who set things in motion, hence his ''it was ME!'' speech at the end of TCC. He didn't tell wanda to cause AD/HOM specifically, but I do think he led her to a path of destruction deliberately, 'cause he thought that was a small price to pay for the powers he could get later on.

And yes, you are right: Doom didn't do anything right away, because he couldn't. Those panels make it clear that, at that point, he had no control over her. She fled and he would only get a hold of her later on. But that's when things start to come together: once he had her, what did he do? Kidnapped her, locked her up in Latveria for quite some time, brainwashed her into believing she was his lover and was about to marry her... I mean, come on, that has SHADY written all over it unless you truly believe he was in love with her (which I don't). He was clearly doing that for some reason, and the fact that she had that enormous power inside of her that, as we saw, could be redirected to him, turning him into a god, is a perfect explanation as to why he did all of that.

Did you even read the story??? Where did you get this kidnapping part from, your own head canon? Let's look at the pages, and remember Wanda disputed none of this.



Okay show me where the kidnapping occurs and I will accept pages only from the book to prove you've actually read the story.

Wanda is definitely responsible for looking for Doom of all people. But she was also desperate and grieving during that time, and like I've just explained above, I think Doom took advantage of her emotional state for his personal gain. I don't believe he was the ''salesman'' just out of the goodness of his heart. And yeah, she was the one who misused the weapon, but I don't think it's fair to blame someone in a fragile mental state possessed by a force that just made said mental state even worse. Doom had the upperhand there because he was the one with an unstable woman and an incredible, destructive power wrapped around his fingers. He could've chosen to do the right thing and not mix both, but he did it anyway, and that decision turned into a snowball. You can trace everything back to what he did, and, at least for me, that's how you could blame him for what happened.

We don't know exactly how long it was that Wanda choose to stay in Latveria but she came voluntarily. Heinberg's statements in his interviews also mentioned how part of the dynamic between Victor and Wanda was that he does care for her but it conflicted himself about it. He even gives her a chance to back out as their wedding day approaches.

[Tiamatty]

The real blame was the friends we made along the way.

[Michael Watkins]

entirely unreliable narrator. "my powers emerged when I was a child?"

[Tmacaoni]

Yea, that part with Hawkeye coming into town just to bang Wanda was bad. Like he came with his black book of already been banged Avenger girls and crossed her off the list.

Good one Bro!! fist pump.

What a jerk.

[BroHomo]

Yea, that part with Hawkeye coming into town just to bang Wanda was bad. Like he came with his black book of already been banged Avenger girls and crossed her off the list.

Good one Bro!! fist pump.

What a jerk.

I mean...
She did kill him
Soooooo
not say that she owes him
Buuuuuut

[Tmacaoni]

I mean...
She did kill him
Soooooo
not say that she owes him
Buuuuuut

Not really. He sacrificed himself to save the planet from a made up threat. He kinda committed suicide. She just made the scenario. I think she only killed Jack of Hearts outright. That and a crap ton of mutants which one of them shouldn't have been bathing in volcanoes.

[brettc1]

Yea, that part with Hawkeye coming into town just to bang Wanda was bad. Like he came with his black book of already been banged Avenger girls and crossed her off the list.

Good one Bro!! fist pump.

What a jerk.

But it's okay when She-Hulk does it?

[Relugus]

Why doesn't the poll list include Chthon, Set (both blamed by Ian McNee in Marvel Tarot) and Doom?

And of course Bendis and Quesada?

[Michael Watkins]

Not really. He sacrificed himself to save the planet from a made up threat. He kinda committed suicide. She just made the scenario. I think she only killed Jack of Hearts outright. That and a crap ton of mutants which one of them shouldn't have been bathing in volcanoes.

I think that you might be misinterpreting things. Jack's powers killed Jack (or didn't kill him since he shows up later). Wanda sent him to the mansion to kill all of her former friends. she had him show up because she knew that he would detonate. so any deaths that resulted from that would be outright murder. how do I know? because there was a second and third wave of the attack. she had Vision explode into an Ultron horde.

[Michael Watkins]

But it's okay when She-Hulk does it?

I think the difference would be that Wanda, arguably, could not give consent. she was nuts. he had sex with a possibly amnesic crazy woman. She-Hulk didn't escape judgment for her sexcapades. her romps were used to make her seem as if she had hit rock bottom in Slott's original run. she slept with Juggernaut for pete's sake.

[Michael Watkins]

amazing how he attacked Wiccan without killing him. couldn't manage that amount of restraint with Cassie Lang, huh?

[Drops Of Venus]

He cared enough that he gave her shelter for a period of time where she was stable and content. The Avengers and X-Men just let her wander around on her own. When Hawkeye encountered her in an obviously state of amnesia, he's OK with having sex with her. That was sleazy.



Did you even read the story??? Where did you get this kidnapping part from, your own head canon? Let's look at the pages, and remember Wanda disputed none of this.



Okay show me where the kidnapping occurs and I will accept pages only from the book to prove you've actually read the story.

Well, since you mention Clint having sex with the Wanda-bot, I assume you might be aware of the concept of rape by deception, right? When a sexual relationship happens with consent, but the victim only gave that consent because they were, for some reason, tricked into that. Using that same logic, yes, I could argue Doom ''kidnapped her by deception'' when he took advantage of an amnesiac woman by lying to her about who she was so he could keep her near him, while deliberately keeping her away from her family and loved ones. He even made sure to place a fake Wanda out there to throw people off. He flat out stated in that very panel you posted that he thought it was best if she doesn't remember who she is, meaning he very much intended to keep doing whatever he was gonna do with her without her real, genuine consent. There is nothing noble about that, even if you want to believe he was doing that because he had feelings for her. And if he was doing that out of genuine feelings for her, then it was not very different from Clint having sex with the Wanda-bot, only that Doom would be having an intimate relationship with the real one. It's shady no matter how you look at it.

Also, I hadn't read that story in a while, so it's good to be reminded Wiccan had pretty much the same opinion I have about what Doom was doing. ''You mean what's best for you. (...) You're about to marry a woman with the powers of god.'' He was clearly accusing Doom of ulterior motives there, and the way Doom showed his true colors in the end corroborates that. I think I'm gonna start my own #WiccanWasRight movement.