LoSH and NTT: Creatures Of Their Time?

[Tzigone]

Then again, I found it difficult to believe that Donna Troy would hook up with a middle aged loser (this was Wolfman's fantasy, I guess)

I don't care how much you don't like the character - 29 is not middle-aged.

I liked Jericho fine, and hated his horrible death (fine with him dying, but it should have been a hero's death), and what's been done with him since. And frankly, not going with stereotypes isn't a bad thing. Not that I even realized him as "appearing gay" until other people commented later. He was just an artistic guy who didn't like violence. But, of course, was absolutely willing to fight. Have to be to be a superhero.

[Dr. Ellingham]

Seems like The Legion and The Titans enjoyed their greatest success in the 1980s. It's been a rollercoaster for both of them ever since.

Is that a factor of the Silver Age kids audience coming of age with them? If not, what?

You can't measure today's performance purely against where things were at the peak. A more realistic sales measurement is current performance against the median (or mode) average.

Because the circumstances that led to the New Teen Titans of the early 1980s were unique, and involved DC attempting to bridge the gap between their audience and Marvel's, which was 2x / 3x bigger. And for these two comics, they were able to draw Marvel readers to DC. For awhile. Eventually, that bump evaporated, as it usually does. A better judge would be where the Titans were 5 years prior (yikes!), or 5 years after.

[Digifiend]

I don't care how much you don't like the character - 29 is not middle-aged.

Wow, was Terry Long that young? He didn't look it.

[Tzigone]

Wow, was Terry Long that young? He didn't look it.

I honestly thing that's an artifact of the hair/facial hair styles (and clothing, too, probably). Plenty of these guys look as old as Terry to me. Not all, but plenty.

[TheCape]

Wow, was Terry Long that young? He didn't look it.

Yeah, he was only 10 years older than Donna, also funny enougth he did thought that Donna was in her mid 20s when he met her.

[basbash99]

The main problem both have is chasing the past. With the Legion it was bring back past writers while with the Titans it is always trying yo recreate the Wolfman/Perez run. The last time the Legion was really hot was when they put fresh new talent on the series with DnA with Copiel on art. Then they started chasing the past by bringing back Waid for his horribly received Threeboot. Then when that failed they panicked and brought back Jim Shooter to try and salvage the Threeboot. Then they scrapped the Threeboot altogether and brought back Levitz to try and save the franchise when it was ptetty clear his best writing days were behind him. This lead to the cancelation. Then instead of getting some fresh talent like Hickman who expressed interest in doing the book they get Bendis whos best days are way behind him, and who is a very divisive writer and let him just crap all over Legion history.

wow, would definitely have liked to see what Hickman would have done with LOSH, assuming he didn't just rework those ideas into his HoX run.

[kcekada]

Wow, was Terry Long that young? He didn't look it.

Yeah, that's surprising. He was still a loser, IMHO.

[kcekada]

wow, would definitely have liked to see what Hickman would have done with LOSH, assuming he didn't just rework those ideas into his HoX run.

I wasn't impressed with his work on Avengers and certainly didn't need another two-page spread where he likes to show off his graphic design skills. I doubt I'd have enjoyed his Legion work, but I would have tired it -- and it would have been preferable to yet another reboot!

[Digifiend]

I honestly thing that's an artifact of the hair/facial hair styles (and clothing, too, probably). Plenty of these guys look as old as Terry to me. Not all, but plenty.

Only a couple of them do, really. It's the beard that makes him look older. I'd honestly pegged Terry as being closer to 40.

lol, there's a Helen Cho on there. That's the name of Amadeus (Totally Awesome Hulk)'s mother.

[Flash Gordon]

TITANS just suffers from not having solid talent on the property.

LoSH too, but a big problem for the Legion is also the shared superhero universe and superhero fandom in general.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

TITANS just suffers from not having solid talent on the property.

LoSH too, but a big problem for the Legion is also the shared superhero universe and superhero fandom in general.

Titans suffers because it’s not really a great concept beyond “lets get all the young heroes together”. Perez and Wolfman actually gave it focus and redesigned the team so they could tell stories of growth and progression of Robin, Cyborg, Raven, Beast Boy, and Starfire striking out on their own and trying to reconcile with an upbringing that they didn’t want to define them to forge their own path. It worked for that group specifically and was lightening in bottle. And if you think about the main villains of that run we’re the exact issues the Titans had. Deathstroke and Trigon, two fathers who’s lifestyle and culture ended up imposing doom on their children (Grant dies replicating his father, Raven is doomed for being Trigon’s daughter, Brother Blood was a cultist who seduced impressionable minds to follow him, Terra was a girl who couldn’t overcome her own nature).

It all thematically worked.

But after that it was like “well we gotta have a Robin and a Wonder Girl, oh let’s add the new Superboy, etc”. It just shuffling young characters there as a right of passage

[Harpsikord]

Yeah, that's surprising. He was still a loser, IMHO.

I don't know that he was really a loser. Up until the breakup, which was editorially mandated, Terry was a really loving and supportive husband who had a successful career. It's just super frowned upon to be a professor in a relationship with your student nowadays, as it should be, and he suffers from being a mundane love interest to a superhero.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I don't know that he was really a loser. Up until the breakup, which was editorially mandated, Terry was a really loving and supportive husband who had a successful career. It's just super frowned upon to be a professor in a relationship with your student nowadays, as it should be, and he suffers from being a mundane love interest to a superhero.

It’s more that I think fans are less tolerant of the male character being the more domesticated role in a supe relationship

[Tzigone]

I don't know that he was really a loser. Up until the breakup, which was editorially mandated, Terry was a really loving and supportive husband who had a successful career. It's just super frowned upon to be a professor in a relationship with your student nowadays, as it should be, and he suffers from being a mundane love interest to a superhero.

He was not involved with his student. This is a falsehood that gets said about Terry a lot. Donna never attended college. Terry didn't even know her age when he first met her (though she was an adult then, just want to be clear). Terry was never involved with any student in the 1980s NTT. He did nothing wrong in that regard.

And I don't have a problem with a "mundane" involved with a hero. It doesn't happen much anymore (can't recall last time a new hero had a civilian love interest - the ones that exist are mostly inherited). I frankly miss civilian love interests and civilian supporting casts, in general. And dislike the double-standard of it being so much more accepted for male heroes than female. But like I said, it's not been the norm for a while.

[Konja7]

I don't know that he was really a loser. Up until the breakup, which was editorially mandated, Terry was a really loving and supportive husband who had a successful career. It's just super frowned upon to be a professor in a relationship with your student nowadays, as it should be, and he suffers from being a mundane love interest to a superhero.

It’s more that I think fans are less tolerant of the male character being the more domesticated role in a supe relationship

I suspect it doesn't help Terry looks too old for Donna (even if he is just 10 years older).

I mean, some people in this forum though he was 40s, while Donna was 19.