For fans who have seen THE LAST JEDI only: opinion on Luke Skywalker

[Buried Alien]

Vague memories are awakening.

Okay, that was way less dramatic than what The Nomad described.

The Nomad may also have missed that Luke has gone all-in on non-confrontation and non-violence.

Indeed. There's no way to prove it (yet, at least), but I feel that Luke was holding WAY back in that scene.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[the nomad]

Vague memories are awakening.

Okay, that was way less dramatic than what The Nomad described.

The Nomad may also have missed that Luke has gone all-in on non-confrontation and non-violence.

??? less dramatic we both said the same thing.

And Did I miss it, or are you just trying to make up an excuse as to why he was on the ground with his father's lightsaber pointed in his face by someone who is not even supposed to know how to use it.

[the nomad]

Actually, no. They start the fight with staffs. Luke disarms Rey without too much trouble. She then grabs the lightsaber, which turns the tide, given that Luke didn't have one and had cut himself off from the Force.

Okay my bad I didn't mention the stick fighting..but the point still remains. Luke should have been able to take the lightsaber from her, just like Snoke did. He might not be the Jedi he once was but there still should have been enough juice left in the tank in order to gain the upper hand on a Novice. But maybe I'm wrong tho maybe he let his physical skills wither away....which is kinda what I think the movie wants us to believe.

Which again leads me to my previous statement about Characterization, skill sets and power sets being all over the place.

[the nomad]

Indeed. There's no way to prove it (yet, at least), but I feel that Luke was holding WAY back in that scene.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Maybe. Maybe not. Alas we'll never know will we.

[Buried Alien]

Okay my bad I didn't mention the stick fighting..but the point still remains. Luke should have been able to take the lightsaber from her, just like Snoke did. He might not be the Jedi he once was but there still should have been enough juice left in the tank in order to gain the upper hand on a Novice. But maybe I'm wrong tho maybe he let his physical skills wither away....which is kinda what I think the movie wants us to believe.

Which again leads me to my previous statement about Characterization, skill sets and power sets being all over the place.

I think Luke's physical skills were still there...if a bit enfeebled by both age and being so long out of practice. I think a much bigger factor, however, was that he had lost the will to fight.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[the nomad]

I think Luke's physical skills were still there...if a bit enfeebled by both age and being so long out of practice. I think a much bigger factor, however, was that he had lost the will to fight.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Which only adds to my statement about Characterization. From what we know about Luke Skywalker, I just can not for a second buy into the fact that he would lose the will to fight. Lose the will to do anything other than milk space cows and eat fish on an island some odd lightyears away from where his responsibilities truly lie. I can understand him being hurt that he failed as Kylo's teacher because being a teacher is a gig where some students you reach and other you don't, but to let that defeat him....something seems a bit off.

[Carabas]

??? less dramatic we both said the same thing.

And Did I miss it, or are you just trying to make up an excuse as to why he was on the ground with his father's lightsaber pointed in his face by someone who is not even supposed to know how to use it.

What was he supposed to do? Make a big display of his majestic and awesome powers.
That's not Luke, and what he did worked just as well to end the 'fight'.

[Buried Alien]

Which only adds to my statement about Characterization. From what we know about Luke Skywalker, I just can not for a second buy into the fact that he would lose the will to fight. Lose the will to do anything other than milk space cows and eat fish on an island some odd lightyears away from where his responsibilities truly lie. I can understand him being hurt that he failed as Kylo's teacher because being a teacher is a gig where some students you reach and other you don't, but to let that defeat him....something seems a bit off.

I don't think it's difficult to understand. In the Original Trilogy, Luke had suffered some traumatic moments...losing Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru...losing Obi-Wan...finding out that Vader was his father...losing Yoda....losing his father one final time...but none of those things was Luke's fault. Whatever tough breaks he might have endured in the Original Trilogy, Luke could nevertheless hold his head high and say that he had behaved accountably and honorably.

But losing Ben Solo to the Dark Side...after briefly contemplating killing him, and then being helpless as Kylo Ren destroyed his new Jedi academy...Luke had to come to grips with something he had never had to confront during the Original Trilogy: a crushing sense of guilt and failure that resulted in the loss of multiple lives. That was something that Luke's experiences in the Original Trilogy did not leave him well-equipped to handle.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[the nomad]

What was he supposed to do? Make a big display of his majestic and awesome powers.
That's not Luke, and what he did worked just as well to end the 'fight'.

Maybe not make a big display but you know how about force grabbing it and throwing it over his shoulder (THat's a skill he's proven to be good at) that could have ended the 'fight' too, instead of doing nothing. He has been doing nothing pretty much the whole movie, plus however many years he was in exile.

[the nomad]

I don't think it's difficult to understand. In the Original Trilogy, Luke had suffered some traumatic moments...losing Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru...losing Obi-Wan...finding out that Vader was his father...losing Yoda....losing his father one final time...but none of those things was Luke's fault. Whatever tough breaks he might have endured in the Original Trilogy, Luke could nevertheless hold his head high and say that he had behaved accountably and honorably.

But losing Ben Solo to the Dark Side...after briefly contemplating killing him, and then being helpless as Kylo Ren destroyed his new Jedi academy...Luke had to come to grips with something he had never had to confront during the Original Trilogy: a crushing sense of guilt and failure that resulted in the loss of multiple lives. That was something that Luke's experiences in the Original Trilogy did not leave him well-equipped to handle.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

It's a bit difficult for me to understand that he would even contemplate murdering his own nephew. That's what's so frustrating. In the OT he looked true evilness in the face and he didn't blink. And yet here we are years later, Luke confronted with evilness again (Or supposedly evilness) and he blinks, thus creating Kylo Ren.

It feels more like regression than progression.

[Buried Alien]

It's a bit difficult for me to understand that he would even contemplate murdering his own nephew. That's what's so frustrating. In the OT he looked true evilness in the face and he didn't blink. And yet here we are years later, Luke confronted with evilness again (Or supposedly evilness) and he blinks, thus creating Kylo Ren.

It feels more like regression than progression.

Ben Solo wasn't Anakin Skywalker, and what had worked with Anakin probably wouldn't have worked with Ben. Luke reacted as you might expect most Jedi would to the presence of a Dark Side-user...lightsaber drawn.

He relented, though, because that was his nephew, and his innate decency kicked in.

If Luke *had* stricken Ben down at that point, in light of what Ben was already in the process of becoming, what was the worst that could have happened?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Soubhagya]

No Rey did not beat Luke. Luke had the upper hand. She was nothing in front of him till she got that light saber and surprised Luke. At least that's how i remember it. If someone is going to the film again, please confirm it for us. Its no more in my local theater. Or maybe we can wait till the home release.

I do have the Wookipedia(if that is reliable?)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_..._The_Last_Jedi

It's a bit difficult for me to understand that he would even contemplate murdering his own nephew. That's what's so frustrating. In the OT he looked true evilness in the face and he didn't blink. And yet here we are years later, Luke confronted with evilness again (Or supposedly evilness) and he blinks, thus creating Kylo Ren.

It feels more like regression than progression.

Fans cite the Original Trilogy so many times but a little more attention can clear up a few contentions. In Return Of The Jedi when Luke beat Darth Vader wasn't he angry and was trying to kill his father during the light saber battle till he disarmed him? After that he changed his mind and threw away his light saber. Or those furious attacks were not of a lethal nature?

He contemplated killing Ben but immediately stopped himself from doing it. Or just thinking something like that is not possible. Say someone of us is sent back by a time machine to the past. The time when Hitler was 18 years old. Any decent person can contemplate killing him. After all he is going to be one of the worst monsters in human history. He would bring countless suffering to others. Millions of people will die due to his cruelty. Wouldn't it be better to stop it before such a calamity happens? I am not saying that one shall kill someone before he has committed a crime. That's an entirely different and a much trickier issue. But its something any decent person could consider. Regardless of what they end up choosing.

Yes he saved Darth Vader. But he had seen first hand what a Darth Vader can do. He lost his own uncle and aunt as well as many of his friends. Countless lives were lost in that struggle. Alderaan itself had so many innocent lives lost. Within the years he would have thought of these events. Darth Vader was instrumental to the Empire and brought so much suffering to the galaxy.

Now sensing the same darkness in his own nephew and student isn't it natural that he briefly contemplated to just stop such a tragedy from even happening? But since he was Luke Skywalker he did not do it.

[BeastieRunner]

Luke was back pedaling the whole fight till he disarmed Rey and she went for the saber.

[Sacred Knight]

It's a bit difficult for me to understand that he would even contemplate murdering his own nephew. That's what's so frustrating. In the OT he looked true evilness in the face and he didn't blink. And yet here we are years later, Luke confronted with evilness again (Or supposedly evilness) and he blinks, thus creating Kylo Ren.

It feels more like regression than progression.

Of course he's blinked before this. Luke tapped into the dark side the second Vader threatened to turn Leia. That was the spark that ignited his rage. He proceeded to attack Vader in anger till he severed his hand and came inches from murdering him. His hand was stayed at the last moment via his willpower which showed his true character. He overcame the temptation and raw power that was the dark side. But he most definitely blinked.

[WebLurker]

Okay my bad I didn't mention the stick fighting..but the point still remains. Luke should have been able to take the lightsaber from her, just like Snoke did. He might not be the Jedi he once was but there still should have been enough juice left in the tank in order to gain the upper hand on a Novice. But maybe I'm wrong tho maybe he let his physical skills wither away....which is kinda what I think the movie wants us to believe.

Which again leads me to my previous statement about Characterization, skill sets and power sets being all over the place.

Snoke redirected it while it was still in the air. On Ach-To, Rey already had it in her hand before he realized what had happened. I also think it's safe to say that he'd burned through his will to fight as well.

Which only adds to my statement about Characterization. From what we know about Luke Skywalker, I just can not for a second buy into the fact that he would lose the will to fight. Lose the will to do anything other than milk space cows and eat fish on an island some odd lightyears away from where his responsibilities truly lie. I can understand him being hurt that he failed as Kylo's teacher because being a teacher is a gig where some students you reach and other you don't, but to let that defeat him....something seems a bit off.

It wasn't that Kylo had flipped that made him consider himself a failure, it was the fact that he'd considered murdering his nephew for something he might do in the future. Luke does explain this when telling Rey the full story about what happened. It might seem out of character, but he did see everything he'd worked to build fall apart because of that mistake and we're not privy to everything that happened between the trilogies. At any rate, it's not without precedent; the comic series Darth Vader: Dark Lord of the Sith does establish that some Jedi do withdraw from all Jedi affairs (to the point that such Jedi could not investigate Order 66 while the vow was still active) and go into self-exile for a perceived failing until such a time that they feel they've atoned for it. Luke did not apparently take the specific vow and was even more restrictive then the vow's requirements, but under the circumstances, I think it made sense.

Luke was back pedaling the whole fight till he disarmed Rey and she went for the saber.

I don't think that's evidence that he was failing. Good fighters know how to move things to their advantage.