Secret Empire #0 Preview

[Alpha Storm]

And in that context, his private monologue in Civil War II: The Oath about how superheroes have only contributed to the brokenness of society by using their power chiefly for ideological self-gratification at the expense of the people they claim to protect makes a lot more chilling sense. As far as a lot of people can see in real life and in the Marvel Universe, society is very broken and desperately needs to be fixed somehow, but you have HYDRA-Cap and similar demagogic fascists in real life taking advantage of that to install a so-called fix that's really even worse. Of course, as you said before in another thread, people both in-universe and in real life won't care so long as those they believe have betrayed, deceived, failed, and undermined them for so long get theirs first.

How can anyone say Steve Rogers hasn't been destroyed then though if that is case? Hydra Cap is the opposite of everything Steve Rogers was about. He's not just the same guy with a different cause, as some people want to state, his whole idealogy is very different and well...fascist. He's taking advantage of the weaknesses he sees just like those "similar fascists" in real life and his goals are no better. And I mean how is Hydra Cap any different from those he was criticizing? This is idealogical self-gratification taken to the highest level and nothing about his "fix" is going to lead to anything better.

[Michael Watkins]

there's nothing shadier than posting a reply to someone without quoting them.

Because if you help knowingly work with and make it easier for an organization, like say the Nazi's, to do their work, like killing people in concentration camps - well then you are really kind of as bad as they are. Which is why people get pissed off when they find the CIA armed various drug dealers, terrorist organizations, toppling legitimate governments and the like in the name of "helping America's interests" and generally in the long run, made things worse for everyone and only really lined the pockets of the already powerful.

or hiring Nazis (like scientists, for instance)? or maybe helping to hide/relocate some of them? or arming terrorists in, say, Nicaragua? or dropping an atom bomb on someone? or keeping slaves? Hydra wasn't interning anyone. they are just a run-of-the-mill evil organization.

Hydra predates the Nazi's as you say, which gives them even LESS of an excuse for getting involved with them, because it's not like they just met while they were at the Nazi planning parties and decided to start their own thing. They knew what they were and allied with them anyway. As for Elisa, really? She still put him in Hydra Academy, knowing what they were. It's not like any of those people, Zemo, Von Strucker, etc were good people and she knew that. Neither was Daniel Whitehall. But this is the organization she wanted Steve to be part of.

you don't get it. Elisa didn't ally with them. and she didn't align with the Skull. she foresaw Steve Rogers being her instrument for leading Hydra to greatness.

And she convinced Steve Red Skull was the enemy so Steve wouldn't kill her as he'd been sent to do.

that is not what happened. for starters, Elisa could kill Steve any time that she wanted to. she withheld the information about the Skull because she saw that it would lead to Steve being out of the picture (until Namor finds him floating around).

As for movie SHIELD, movie SHIELD turned out to be a Hydra front which is why Steve insisted the whole thing had to be dismantled. Also if you'll recall about the movie, one of the things Steve and Fury argued about, early on, was SHIELD using that using that excuse about doing dirty deeds to keep the world safe - "This isn't freedom, this is fear" is a pretty memorable line from one of those exchanges. Even Natasha sort of subtly was in on that plot theme - because once she found who she'd really been working, she was like "wait were all those things I told myself I was doing for the greater good really worth it? Should I even have done them in the first place?". You know what SHIELD was supposed to be, per AoU? A helicarrier appearing to help save people off a floating city before they could all be killed by Ultron. Not an organization creating weapons that holds a gun to the world's head and called it safety.

meanwhile, the U.S. military budget has doubled; to instill fear. do you remember what movie Ultron was supposed to be? what villain thought that one up? who gave SHIELD the repulsor tech that they needed to make Project Insight work? couldn't possibly be someone Steve Rogers worked alongside. "Because if you help knowingly work with and make it easier for an organization, like say the Nazi's, to do their work,"

[dragonmp93]

there's nothing shadier than posting a reply to someone without quoting them.



or hiring Nazis (like scientists, for instance)? or maybe helping to hide/relocate some of them? or arming terrorists in, say, Nicaragua? or dropping an atom bomb on someone? or keeping slaves? Hydra wasn't interning anyone. they are just a run-of-the-mill evil organization.



you don't get it. Elisa didn't ally with them. and she didn't align with the Skull. she foresaw Steve Rogers being her instrument for leading Hydra to greatness.



that is not what happened. for starters, Elisa could kill Steve any time that she wanted to. she withheld the information about the Skull because she saw that it would lead to Steve being out of the picture (until Namor finds him floating around).




meanwhile, the U.S. military budget has doubled; to instill fear. do you remember what movie Ultron was supposed to be? what villain thought that one up? who gave SHIELD the repulsor tech that they needed to make Project Insight work? couldn't possibly be someone Steve Rogers worked alongside. "Because if you help knowingly work with and make it easier for an organization, like say the Nazi's, to do their work,"

Well, during the whole mess of the genocidal cloud that the Inhumans created; the normal humans created concentration camp for mutants suffering of M-pox, where there regular mass execution of those mutants. So to be sincere, Nazis or not, it's not like Hydra is worse than that.

[John Ossie]

Make sure you grab the Free Comic Book Day issue as well.

Considering it's a freebie it's a dead cert guarantee that I'll be getting it LOL.

[xpyred]

I am trying to catch up on both Sam Wilson and Steve Roger's series in time for secret empire. I read Pleasant Hill a year ago and remember enough but I just got up to it again. Do i need to read everything in between like Uncanny Avengers and Avengers, or can i just read the Alpha and Omega issues and move with Sam and Steve?

[Aceun]

I am trying to catch up on both Sam Wilson and Steve Roger's series in time for secret empire. I read Pleasant Hill a year ago and remember enough but I just got up to it again. Do i need to read everything in between like Uncanny Avengers and Avengers, or can i just read the Alpha and Omega issues and move with Sam and Steve?

Honestly, you can probably get away with Alpha and Omega if you're reading both Sam Cap and Steve Cap. The Secret Empire Prelude doesn't include much more than that and the key things relevant to the event happen in the Cap books primarily.

[xpyred]

Honestly, you can probably get away with Alpha and Omega if you're reading both Sam Cap and Steve Cap. The Secret Empire Prelude doesn't include much more than that and the key things relevant to the event happen in the Cap books primarily.

Sounds great. Thank you for the reply.

[Mike_Murdock]

Yeah, prelude's not necessary, but it was a very fun issue.

[Ianbarreilles]

If the reports are true about retailers who read the zero early and the issue revealing if true that the allies actually lost World War II and how the nazis and hydra were supposed to win and that the reason why the allies ended up winning was because the used the cosmic cube to make it so they won hence why supposedly why people believe the allies won at least in the marvel universe.

We don't know if this is what is really revealed but I have to say if it is that's fucked up and grim that's depressing actually regardless the zero issue should be important.

[Ianbarreilles]

You know it makes me wonder if this revelation is true and bleeding cool isn't lying...like how would fans react? I must say the idea of this happening is quite daring even more so then when spencer originally had Kobik turning Steve into a hydra agent.

There's something quite upsetting and really fucked up and grim and depressing even about this revelation if it turns out to be true.

[Huntsman Spider]

You know it makes me wonder if this revelation is true and bleeding cool isn't lying...like how would fans react? I must say the idea of this happening is quite daring even more so then when spencer originally had Kobik turning Steve into a hydra agent.

There's something quite upsetting and really fucked up and grim and depressing even about this revelation if it turns out to be true.

Because it would be the ultimate repudiation of the idea, at least in Marvel, that "the arc of history is long, but it bends toward justice." No, that revelation would mean that injustice, cruelty, suffering, and evil are hard-coded into the makeup of the Marvel Universe, that those things are not proverbial bugs in the software of the MU, but features. That would make all the heroes' struggles completely meaningless, because this is a universe where they were never meant to win at all, explaining to a large degree the increasing bleakness of contemporary MU stories. Just the 'verse reverting to the natural state of things, the true way of the world --- kind of like the Anti-Life Equation as revealed by Grant Morrison in DC's Final Crisis.

[Rich Johnston]

You know it makes me wonder if this revelation is true and bleeding cool isn't lying...like how would fans react? I must say the idea of this happening is quite daring even more so then when spencer originally had Kobik turning Steve into a hydra agent.

There's something quite upsetting and really fucked up and grim and depressing even about this revelation if it turns out to be true.

Lying???????????

[dragonmp93]

You know it makes me wonder if this revelation is true and bleeding cool isn't lying...like how would fans react? I must say the idea of this happening is quite daring even more so then when spencer originally had Kobik turning Steve into a hydra agent.

There's something quite upsetting and really fucked up and grim and depressing even about this revelation if it turns out to be true.

Well, im a X-men fan; im used to that.

Because it would be the ultimate repudiation of the idea, at least in Marvel, that "the arc of history is long, but it bends toward justice." No, that revelation would mean that injustice, cruelty, suffering, and evil are hard-coded into the makeup of the Marvel Universe, that those things are not proverbial bugs in the software of the MU, but features. That would make all the heroes' struggles completely meaningless, because this is a universe where they were never meant to win at all, explaining to a large degree the increasing bleakness of contemporary MU stories. Just the 'verse reverting to the natural state of things, the true way of the world --- kind of like the Anti-Life Equation as revealed by Grant Morrison in DC's Final Crisis.

Well, during the New 52, DC made Future's end, the unstoppable canonical (bad) future of the DC universe; that only could be undone by Rebirth:

[dragonmp93]

Lying???????????

Eh, some people here would rather eat their own liver before admitting that Bleeding Cool is right about something.

[Huntsman Spider]

Well, im a X-men fan; im used to that.



Well, during the New 52, DC made Future's end, the unstoppable canonical (bad) future of the DC universe; that only could be undone by Rebirth:

Yeah, in retrospect, it was a sign of just how twisted and bleak things had gotten as a result of the New 52 DCU skewing darker and darker and edgier and edgier over the course of its existence and establishment and how much the creators had lost sight of what these characters were meant to represent. Hence, DC Rebirth. If DC Rebirth was meant to be the return of hope, love, and faith to the DCU, I can only hope the same will ultimately come for Marvel, because this? A world where the Nazis were supposed to win and were only averted by warping reality? That's a little too dark and bleak for me.