Scarlet Witch (mcu) vs Captain Marvel (mcu)

[choptop]

Without getting too involved in everything else...

Wanda's attack on Ultron's heart, Glaive's spear and Thanos' fingers against Vision were all absolutely "damaged vibranium like that thing did" moments.

Very true but Ultron was never 100% vibranium and the spear and Thanos wepon may have been vibranium?

[The Arbiter]

Very true but Ultron was never 100% vibranium and the spear and Thanos wepon may have been vibranium?

It's never confirmed what they are made of.

Even if we accept Ultron wasn't 100% vibranium, the heart was still ripped straight out of his hard armored shell that had had plenty of time to cool off.

[Twickster]

This is quicker than any attack Captain Marvel could execute across Khazan. And it's shielding Wanda using the exact same energy that blocked an attack from Thanos' blade and subsequently smashed it. The same blade that smashed through Captain America's shield. It's also the exact same energy that left Thanos absolutely helpless and was tearing his armour apart - the same armour that Hulk's attack didn't scratch. More to the point, the same armour that Thor, Iron Man, Mjolnir-Captain America and Captain Marvel herself didn't scratch.

The energy Wanda uses is clearly exceptionally potent and durable. There are literally feats to prove it - the one where she explicitly used it to block Thanos' blade attack being the most relevant here, because nothing else in MCU history has damaged vibranium like that thing did.

And again, this ignores that there is literally a distinction between zero to sixty as far as her actions are concerned. If the only evidence people have is "catches Thanos' blade" then its really reaching, especially given all the other feats presented. Wanda's TK stopped Thanos' strength from moving the blade forward. That's well within her presentation. As well as snapping the sword given wind-up, which is well within her presentation as well.

[Twickster]

It's never confirmed what they are made of.

Even if we accept Ultron wasn't 100% vibranium, the heart was still ripped straight out of his hard armored shell that had had plenty of time to cool off.

Yeah, I looked this up. Apparently there is no on-screen scene which shows Ultron Prime being vibranium (hence why I never claimed it). But apparently the MCU says that there were a few vials left of the stolen vibranium, and he used most of that to create the rockets that lifted Sokovia, and the rest were integrated into Ulton Prime. We know Ulton had some vibranium left after Vision, because he still made the rockets, so using some on his body would be reasonable. But again, no on-screen evidence that this is the case.

Anywho, as mentioned, I never claimed that Ultron Prime is Vibranium. But whatever he is, he is clearly durable enough to take a triple teaming Thor, Iron Man and Vision to the face and not be vaporized immediately. Nor did a direct hit from Hulk seconds later cave his chest in. So Wanda ripping his heart out in her first appearance, while understated, was in retrospect a big deal.

Edit: And to go with my zero to sixty, analogy, AoU is also the movie with Wanda's arguably lowest end feat. Where a lowly Ultron drone somehow punches through her shield and hits her when she's distracted. This is not to diminish her in any way. She's new to her powers and unaccustomed to using them. That's perfectly reasonable. And by the rules of the board on consistent high end feats nobody even takes it seriously. But this is also the movie that has her arguably be the main force that stops a moving bullet train, and rip through something that (while arguably damaged) Thor, Iron Man, Vision and Hulk didn't destroy immediately. She was already incredibly powerful way back in her first movie. The point some are trying to make ignores the distinction between zero to sixty as far Wanda's powers are concerned. Just because we see a car run at sixty doesn't mean its running that way all the time.

[Oswin]

Seems really reaching, especially since we see the shield expanding quite a bit above her. Also, I have the video in front of me right now, and the blast hits her red aura head on. So, logical conclusion, the shot went through.

Attachment 106929

Agree to disagre then, I'm not convinced it was a direct hit, upon multiple viewings it never felt like that, and when watching frame by frame i still don't see the blast going through her shield or an effect of the shield being broken or smashed. In the picture i linked earlier it is simply hitting the ground and the impact sends her flying, and you even still see her holding her hands up when the blast hits the ground, the shield is still active over her hands.

And again, this is a weaker wanda we are discussing then the one we have now. It feels like you think the only boost she got was the abillity to make a hex and turn invisible. You don't think all her abillities got a massive uplift?

wanda.jpg

[Twickster]

Agree to disagre then, I'm not convinced it was a direct hit, upon multiple viewings it never felt like that, and when watching frame by frame i still don't see the blast going through her shield or an effect of the shield being broken or smashed. In the picture i linked earlier it is simply hitting the ground and the impact sends her flying, and you even still see her holding her hands up when the blast hits the ground, the shield is still active over her hands.

And I can repost photos too. In particular, the shield is explicitly shown covering an area that the beam was shown moments later, as is the beam hitting the red aura and pushing through.

Untitled-6.jpg

And again, this is a weaker wanda we are discussing then the one we have now. It feels like you think the only boost she got was the abillity to make a hex and turn invisible. You don't think all her abillities got a massive uplift?

The powerup she got in Wandavision isn't *only* "to make a hex and turn invisible". This is massively underselling the fact that she is capable of outright reality warping. That is a massive uplift of her abilities. In the face of that, force is a meaningless concept. It ensures that she is going to steamroll just about any non-cosmic in the MCU, provided she has enough time to wind up and deploy it.

If your claim is whether she got an explicit boost to her blasts, shields or TK, no. Find *one* instance in the entirety of Wandavision where she applies force of a higher level than a previous feat in an earlier movie. There is none. She throws a car, takes down a drone, tanks a blast that destroys a wooden gazebo and throws Monica out of Westview. That's it. You can't claim a "boost" to her TK, blasts and shields when she literally displays higher levels of power in said abilities several movies ago.

[Oswin]

And I can repost photos too. In particular, the shield is explicitly shown covering an area that the beam was shown moments later, as is the beam hitting the red aura and pushing through.

Untitled-6.jpg

the frame i made a still of happens after yours, where you still see her holding her shield up with her hands. Also the place where the beam strikes is in front and to the left of her, which we specifically do not see in your first picture. but im happy to have a mod rule on this subject. because we won't be changing each others mind on this until we get new information.

[Twickster]

the frame i made a still of happens after yours

That's not a particularly good defense of your claim. My frames show what happens *first*. They show the extent of coverage of her red aura, as well as the exact spot the beam hits, which is within the coverage of that aura in the previous frame. We also know that she is explicitly defending against a beam which she knows the direction its coming from (because really, why wouldn't she?). We see her facing the direction of the beam, which is consistent with someone defending against something they see coming, which we know she does. And again, we see the beam cut through the area where we know there was her aura a frame earlier.

Your frame is explicitly not this. She is *not* facing the direction of the beam. Because the explosion has already happened, near her feet, through her shield, and she's already being thrown outwards, aura and all. And we know this, because we have established that your frame happens later than mine.

Logical conclusion: The beam punches through. But sure, I'm open to having a mod rule over it.

[The Arbiter]

Yeah, I looked this up. Apparently there is no on-screen scene which shows Ultron Prime being vibranium (hence why I never claimed it). But apparently the MCU says that there were a few vials left of the stolen vibranium, and he used most of that to create the rockets that lifted Sokovia, and the rest were integrated into Ulton Prime. We know Ulton had some vibranium left after Vision, because he still made the rockets, so using some on his body would be reasonable. But again, no on-screen evidence that this is the case.

Anywho, as mentioned, I never claimed that Ultron Prime is Vibranium. But whatever he is, he is clearly durable enough to take a triple teaming Thor, Iron Man and Vision to the face and not be vaporized immediately. Nor did a direct hit from Hulk seconds later cave his chest in. So Wanda ripping his heart out in her first appearance, while understated, was in retrospect a big deal.

Edit: And to go with my zero to sixty, analogy, AoU is also the movie with Wanda's arguably lowest end feat. Where a lowly Ultron drone somehow punches through her shield and hits her when she's distracted. This is not to diminish her in any way. She's new to her powers and unaccustomed to using them. That's perfectly reasonable. And by the rules of the board on consistent high end feats nobody even takes it seriously. But this is also the movie that has her arguably be the main force that stops a moving bullet train, and rip through something that (while arguably damaged) Thor, Iron Man, Vision and Hulk didn't destroy immediately. She was already incredibly powerful way back in her first movie. The point some are trying to make ignores the distinction between zero to sixty as far Wanda's powers are concerned. Just because we see a car run at sixty doesn't mean its running that way all the time.

I think you misunderstood my point here.

I was saying it's never confirmed what Glaives spear or Thanos' sword were made out of.

I absolutely believe a significant chunk of Ultron Prime's body was made out of Vibranium. Tony even says "Been working out? A little Vibranium cocktail huh?" upon seeing his final body.

I'm totally cool saying Wanda ripped a mostly vibranium heart out of a mostly vibranium armor.

[Twickster]

I think you misunderstood my point here.

I was saying it's never confirmed what Glaives spear or Thanos' sword were made out of.

I absolutely believe a significant chunk of Ultron Prime's body was made out of Vibranium. Tony even says "Been working out? A little Vibranium cocktail huh?" upon seeing his final body.

I'm totally cool saying Wanda ripped a mostly vibranium heart out of a mostly vibranium armor.

Ah, cool beans.