The Kents - Dead or Alive?

[daBronzeBomma]

Alive. Both of them.

But, IF they are indeed coming back, then there needs to be some big changes.

1. Clearly and effectively differentiate Jonathan and Martha as two very different people in the opposite attract mold, and show how Clark is the best of both their personas. Maybe Martha is more a "Are you doing enough?" type with Clark while Jonathan is more a "Are you doing too much?" type with him.

2. Let them bicker and argue amongst themselves and with Clark. Older parents and their adult children tend to have more complicated (but still healthy) relationships. Clark can and should think that he's right and they're wrong at least some of the time.

3. Give Martha a job. Jonathan is a farmer-turned- military-turned-back-to-farmer. Martha needs a career. I propose rural pediatrician.

4. Let Pete Ross be the sacrificial lamb who dies young from undiagnosed cancer or something (no foul play) and young Clark is powerless to stop it, and thus learns he can't do everything. "All those powers ... and I couldn't even save him" must survive, even if the subject of that all- time poignant quote changes.

[Sacred Knight]

I've noticed that a lot of people who say that Superman going to his parents for advice makes him seem weak are fine with him going to this AI bio-dad for advice.

I don't recall this ever being a thing during the time I've been a reader. The only places in my lifetime I can recall it being anything of substance was the first two movies and Smallville. And I'm coming at this from a POV of comics. But if it did happen and became a crutch I'd have just as much an issue with it. As its nothing specific against the Kents. Its not even anything against going to someone you're close to for advice from time to time. Superman can do that. Its only an issue when it becomes a crutch, and it very much did so with his relationship with his parents while they were around.

[Kuwagaton]

What stories do you feel do a good job of showing how living Kents benefit Superman? My local library has a really great Superman collection that I’m reading through right now. I was actually planning on doing a reread of Byrne’s Man of Steel volumes because my library has them all available, going to see how I feel about them now. First time I read Byrne I liked it, then after a while I reread them and didn’t really enjoy them. Going to be interesting to see how I feel now.

Nice. Volumes one and seven are mixed bags but it's cool that they apparently paid attention to having an actual GN series there.

I thought Funeral for a Friend, Krypton Man, War of the Gods, and Action Comics 847 were some of their better moments in the life of adult Clark. And it's funny what Waid said considering that they were very likable in Birthright. But in that case I guess he would have killed them if he got to write further?

[Jon Clark]

I've noticed that a lot of people who say that Superman going to his parents for advice makes him seem weak are fine with him going to this AI bio-dad for advice.

Actually, I hated that. While I have my preferences with how the Kents should be, I can live with either. But I have yet to see a use of Jor-El (Superman the Movie, Smallville, Man of Steel, or Mr. Oz) that has him alive post-Krypton in any format (biological or AI) that hasn't been bad.

[Jon Clark]

Alive. Both of them.

But, IF they are indeed coming back, then there needs to be some big changes.

1. Clearly and effectively differentiate Jonathan and Martha as two very different people in the opposite attract mold, and show how Clark is the best of both their personas. Maybe Martha is more a "Are you doing enough?" type with Clark while Jonathan is more a "Are you doing too much?" type with him.

2. Let them bicker and argue amongst themselves and with Clark. Older parents and their adult children tend to have more complicated (but still healthy) relationships. Clark can and should think that he's right and they're wrong at least some of the time.

3. Give Martha a job. Jonathan is a farmer-turned- military-turned-back-to-farmer. Martha needs a career. I propose rural pediatrician.

4. Let Pete Ross be the sacrificial lamb who dies young from undiagnosed cancer or something (no foul play) and young Clark is powerless to stop it, and thus learns he can't do everything. "All those powers ... and I couldn't even save him" must survive, even if the subject of that all- time poignant quote changes.

Other than not caring for the child being the best of his parents trope, I like these ideas. With Lois I'm not fond of the way her father, the macho general, is used to "explain" Lois' personality and I'd be even less thrilled with writers trying to divide Superman's traits between Martha and Jonathan rather than Superman just being Superman.

I like the idea of fleshing out the Kents into something other than a matched set of perfect parents. There should be things they agree on, stuff they don't, and little quirks (Jonathan falls asleep at points sitting up, Martha often brings up relatives to illustrate her points) that they accept about each other.

I always though having Martha have medical training solved a lot of questions. As the town physician or something she'd be able to fudge the vaccinations or deal with any real or feigned illnesses for Clark.

And Pete is a good idea. There was a character Pre-Crisis inserted in Clark's college years who was from Smallville, befriended Clark/Superman and whose death was used to further drive home the "can't save everyone" lesson. Merging part of his story with Pete's could work well and also explains why we haven't seen Pete in Rebirth.

[greatmetropolitan]

I like both Ma and Pa alive for a few reasons.

One, I like as little tragedy as possible in Clark's life. (I don't count Krypton as he didn't know it.) Clark isn't Superman to live up to someone's ideals or honour their memory or because of a tragic life lesson, he's Superman because he's Superman. If you absolutely must kill off the Kents, do it after he's already Superman. The idea of Pete Ross dying of cancer or something in Clark's youth could actually be pretty interesting and work for the "lesson in mortality and things beyond your control" angle.

Two, I think that when the Kents are alive, you have a chance to show who the moral centre of the Superman universe is - Superman. He learned decency and humanity from Ma and Pa, but ultimately he's the guy who should be out there making the right decisions. I want to see him debate with Jonathan, disagree with him and be right. This doesn't make Jonathan a bad or stupid person, just occasionally wrong. Smallville actually did this really well. Jonathan in that show was clearly a thoroughly decent, honourable man, and you could draw a line between him and his teachings to Clark's morality, but he was flawed and wrong as often as he was right.

I also want to see Martha fleshed out more. Pediatrician Martha is a great idea, and links in to the Pete Ross idea, too. Let Jon and Martha be a real couple, with a real inner life. There for support and advice and a link back to Smallville and small town America for the big city boy.

[LordUltimus]

I don't recall this ever being a thing during the time I've been a reader. The only places in my lifetime I can recall it being anything of substance was the first two movies and Smallville. And I'm coming at this from a POV of comics. But if it did happen and became a crutch I'd have just as much an issue with it. As its nothing specific against the Kents. Its not even anything against going to someone you're close to for advice from time to time. Superman can do that. Its only an issue when it becomes a crutch, and it very much did so with his relationship with his parents while they were around.

Geoff Johns did it during his run a few times. When he reintroduced Bizarro World, for instance.

Mind you, it has been quite a while, I'm just talking in general.

[Lightning Rider]

I'm not fussy any which way but in order of preference:

Ma alive and Pa dead
Both alive
both dead/pa alive and ma dead

That last one is mainly because I've never experienced that dynamic and think it would be a little too sad to have Martha leave Jonathan behind for some reason.

[SiegePerilous02]

[*]Having them around to help out with Kara, Conner, and/or Jon is all well and good but I don't care for doing things to benefit other characters when I feel it hurts something about Superman. He's the main guy. Everyone else just exists in his world. Not saying these individual characters don't have individual merit, but it is what it is, they spun from Superman and they're always going to be second-fiddle in my mind, whether I like the indivdiual character (Kara, Kon), or not (Jon).

Kara also has the Danvers' most of the time, going back to the Silver Age.
She really doesn't need the Kents at all.

[manwhohaseverything]

Here is a compromise. Make them zombies. That way they are both dead and alive at the same time. Plus clark wouldn't use them as a crutch for taking advices because all he will get is "rar! Rrrrrraaarrarar".i mean they are already doing the dceased thing.

[objectivewatcher2013]

Both alive. I got back into Superman back in 1992 Death of Superman storyline. The Kents were always the thing kept Superman "Clark", kept him grounded. The qualities that make him Superman.

[stargazer01]

I like Pa dead of natural causes, something Clark can't use his powers to affect. Absolutely no involvement of time imps or Dr. Manhattan, or suicide by tornado. And Ma alive, if for no other reason than every single superhero seems to have to have their families killed as some sort of motivation.

Agreed. I think it's powerful that Clark can't save everybody all the time, especially his father. Despite that, he never loses his hope and optimism even though it can be challenged at times. Same way if Lois dies. He is Superman because it's the right thing to do.

[Vordan]

Both alive. I got back into Superman back in 1992 Death of Superman storyline. The Kents were always the thing kept Superman "Clark", kept him grounded. The qualities that make him Superman.

Is a 30 year old man being so reliant on his parents, or even his spouse, to keep him from going off the deep end really a good thing though?

[Sacred Knight]

My thing with the grounded argument....the Kents ground him by how they raised him. That doesn't just go away. They did a good job, so those lessons are for life regardless. He's already grounded as much as he needs to be when he becomes Superman (and even that oftentimes gets overstated, Superman can take the to stars just as easily as he can be "grounded" and not lose his love of his adopted home). Its the same problem I have with the argument that Lois grounds him.

[Vordan]

My thing with the grounded argument....the Kents ground him by how they raised him. That doesn't just go away. They did a good job, so those lessons are for life regardless. He's already grounded as much as he needs to be when he becomes Superman (and even that oftentimes gets overstated, Superman can take the to stars just as easily as he can be "grounded" and not lose his love of his adopted home). Its the same problem I have with the argument that Lois grounds him.

Sometimes I’m not even sure what “grounded” means exactly. I’ve always interpreted it as “Clark knows he has a duty to use his powers to help people however he can”, but I’ve never solely attributed his morals to the Kents. I like to think that Clark has his own philosophy and outlook on life he’s built from his heroic career as well as those “Lost Years” when he was away at college or traveling the world.