Should Wanda Maximoff (Scarlet Witch stand trial for House of M ?

[Voices From the Eyrie]

You're supposed to feel bad about someone who was pushed to her mental and emotional limit and did something she deeply regrets, yeah. That's what compassion for the vulnerable is about. This is like a rite of passage for X-men. When you found out what Rogue did to Carol Danvers that she deserves to be punished for eternity? That's why she a great foil for Wanda in Uncanny Avengers, they both have that in common. Archangel, Wolverine, Jean Grey, Colossus, Gambit, Xavier, Beast have done things that they deeply regret, and Beast is currently doing his finest impression of an amoral CIA spook in X-Force. We'll see whether he regrets his decisions later.




This all goes back to them having problems with Scarlet Witch, which started with Byrne. Read Avengers: Diasssembled, also written by Bendis (who is informed by Byrne's Avengers rather than Busiek's). She-Hulk and Carol Danvers hated her over what she did and as these stories go she wasn't consciously evil she just had a mental breakdown and bad writing to make excuses because they're out of character for Wanda. You need to read Avengers, you don't know what her relationship with them is like.



When have Magik and Emma Frost been punished for their actions? Both never lost their status with the X-men and Magik has been promoted in their ranks once she got her act together. Scott got punished but he remained a lead role in X-men and regained everything, he's not thinking every day of what he did in the P5. That's over for him, not so for Wanda. That defined her ever since.

That the P5 didn't originally want their power shouldn't be an excuse for their actions, while Wanda did sought out the Life Force she was also a victim just like they were. Same symptoms, where it differs is that Wanda lives every day in remorse and society and out of universe fans define her as "bad" while those very same people worship the ground the P5 walk on. Cosmic power overwhelmed both parties but only one is wondered a victim and the other a two dimensional villain.

Look upward, death came for Wanda and she perished. No Death commandos are required.

This idea that every person on Earth, including her closet friends, should shun her for eternity is baffling and contradicts what the X-men do with their own when they fall. You want them to open a hand to their greatest enemies who have caused them more grief than Wanda ever did but want Wanda to suffer without limit. It's hypocritical to the extreme.



This is an excuse to punish an idea of Wanda, not Wanda herself. The attempts to reveal her real character as a hero and that her friends still love and respect her are seen as "attacks." Perhaps this is a holdover from the controversial X-men vs Avengers battles, and Wanda is just a proxy to hate on.

Oh, but you see, Apocalypse hurts the right people.

[Zelena]

Oh, but you see, Apocalypse hurts the right people.

Wanda could say 'First, the criminals on Krakoa…'
After all, they are already on the place.

[Veitha]

Oh, but you see, Apocalypse hurts the right people.

No one is saying that Apocalypse is a good person and a hero though. He's currently part of the bigger (grey) scheme of making Krakoa a thing, but he's not an X-Men and no one is saying that he's better than Wanda.

As I've said before, it's about Wanda not facing any consequences for her actions, while other heroes in similar positions such as the P5 have.

[Steel Inquisitor]

No one is saying that Apocalypse is a good person and a hero though. He's currently part of the bigger (grey) scheme of making Krakoa a thing, but he's not an X-Men and no one is saying that he's better than Wanda.

Are you kidding? Apocalypse is a rock star here. I don't know what the opinion was pre-Krakoa but post Krakoa he can do no wrong. Including the he betrays popular X-men for his schemes. Apocalypse ins't doing anything grey in Excalibur, he's doing his regular old villain schtick with a more polite tone.

As I've said before, it's about Wanda not facing any consequences for her actions, while other heroes in similar positions such as the P5 have.

And once again all the consequences she has faced are ignored, because she had the audacity to be written sympathetically. The trials of the P5 are long over, and its debatable they all got the punishment for their crimes. Look at Scott, he got everything back and more.



I am curious about what Rogue thinks of Magik, post-P5, did they ever hash it over that Magik did to her?

[Ferro]

No one is saying that Apocalypse is a good person and a hero though. He's currently part of the bigger (grey) scheme of making Krakoa a thing, but he's not an X-Men and no one is saying that he's better than Wanda.

As I've said before, it's about Wanda not facing any consequences for her actions, while other heroes in similar positions such as the P5 have.

if wanda was a fifth as interesting and dynamic of a villain i could stan, but now she is just this sad and pathethic mess

[Veitha]

Wanda never faced any consequences. Was she put on trial? Nope. Was she incarcerated? Nope. Was she hated by her teammates? Nope. Did she become public enemy n.1? Nope.

She got a pass for her genocidal actions because she had privileges being an Avengers, period.

Scott got everything back after having been labeled a terrorist and mutant Hitler and paying for what he did under Phoenix influence as if he had deliberately taken the Phoenix Force for himself. Big difference.

[Veitha]

if wanda was a fifth as interesting and dynamic of a villain i could stan, but now she is just this sad and pathethic mess

Yeah lol Apocalypse is being used a lot and people like him in current comics because he is interesting to read.

[Ferro]

Wanda never faced any consequences. Was she put on trial? Nope. Was she incarcerated? Nope. Was she hated by her teammates? Nope. Did she become public enemy n.1? Nope.

She got a pass for her genocidal actions because she had privileges being an Avengers, period.

Scott got everything back after having been labeled a terrorist and mutant Hitler and paying for what he did under Phoenix influence as if he had deliberately taken the Phoenix Force for himself. Big difference.

and dying in a painfull way

[Alphaxman]

I hated how Rick Remneder portrayed Wanda so callous and unforgiving in Uncanny Avengers, and I liked most of what he did there. He just made the divide between her haters and her fans greater. But ultimately, it was Bendis horrible treatment of her throughout his run that ruined her character for years. In some ways, she's like Rachel: always getting possessed or used by some ultimate evil (Chthon, Dr. Doom, Immortus) or some all-power, universal force (life-force).

Even after Allan Heinberg tried to show that she was remorseful and willing to face the consequences of her actions, they still moved her further and further away from M-Day. I think her best bet was if she'd joined the X-Men after Children Crusade, finding redemption there. That way she could have worked with the X-Men to help Hope with the Phoenix Force, instead of fighting them -- another wedge that alienated X-Fans. By Marvel leaving her on Avengers side, aka the "right side" and then have her help solve the mutant problem activating X-genes in the masses, but only after the majority of the X-Men saw the evil of their ways and came to the Avengers with their tail between their legs, only hurt her in the long run.


For me though, I see her as the ultimate victim here: Doom used her grief (that was already dealt with years before, but Bendis...) to trick her in using a power that she couldn't control, then she was manipulated by her own brother to create a false reality which broke her even further, only to strike against the mutant race because of the perceived manipulation from her family.

But what's done is done, no matter how mismanaged it was by Marvel. Unfortunately it seems Marvel has moved her away from mutant issues to have her mainly in the magic arena, while sidelining Quicksilver completely.

I like Wanda, I really do... but Marvel makes it so damn hard, sometimes. I missed how proud she was being a mutant. Now she seems like she was some self-hating martyr before stripping/changing who she was. Hopefully Hickman can bridge the divide and redeem Wanda with the mutants.

I don't think she needs the Avengers -- they surely don't need her. If they need help with magic, they seem to go to Doctor Strange now. But I do think she needs the X-Men to improve her popularity. Let her play in the X-Men sandbox a while before going back to the norm with Avengers.

[Will Evans]

Did anyone like her romance with Nightcrawler in WatX?

Then there’s the whole Nocturne from AU.

[JasmineW]

Did anyone like her romance with Nightcrawler in WatX?

Then there’s the whole Nocturne from AU.

No, it was disgusting and made me sick.
Our Nightcrawler wouldn't consort with a genocide mass murderer.

[BroHomo]

Uhh...

Well, i call them "crimes" because in context Wanda wasn't in her faculties when that happened and still cannon as well that Dr Doom had to do with it like other users said since the start of this thread..

Dr Doom a paragon of virtue

Guilty or not, she still free with her "fraudulent" hero status intact after all these years so

I mean I can't throw stones concerning the company people keep, Just shade. lol

What did you think of Wanda before Bendis? .

I think I read 1 Avengers comic back then....it was a old issue I think Wanda was at Mardi Gras? She didnt leave any kinda impression on me. I"ll describe my thoughts on Wanda by paraphrasing Evelyn from season 1 of BasketBall Wives "She was a non-muthaLumpin' Factor"
Buuuuut I did really like Wanda from AoA her death made me sad. And the way her character in X-Men Evo wasnt taking no Guff. And I looooooved Ultimate Universe Wanda, her and Pietro's first couple appearances the hints of the true nature of their relationship+ Pietro's bitchiness was Awwwwweesome
I guess it's just the the 616 that works my nerve.

Genosha wasn't fully explored in the comics like Krakoa is so we use what information we have about it. Nobody had lots of information on Genosha because of this, unlike cultural identity which is a studied topic in our world.

Well It's a comicbook No one is going to do much studying of a fake subculture forming around a marginalized fake minority. And just because a culture hasn't been 'studied' doesnt make it any less culturally significant than the next one

It has culture but I think the argument was it didn't have a huge impact, which is correct. Krakoa has done incredible things because it was allowed to breath and have in depth coverage. Exploring mutant culture wasn't the main intent of Morrison's X-men.
.

Welll Of course it didn't, Wanda pretty much wiped it off the map. Morrisson's run? The same run that had QQ provactively debut his 'Magneto was right' Tee, Or had Mutant fashion designer Jumbo Carnation get killed, Kick? a drug that boosted mutant powers, or the UMen who hated mutants so much yet longed to be them so much they took mutant organs/appendages in an attempt to gain some sort of higher level

A lot of comments keep making comparisons to the X-Men but Jean and the P5 were A) victims of the circumstances and didn't seek any power for selfish reasons that later led to disaster B) punished for their actions or had a great deal of suffering come from it (I'm talking about the Death Commandos, not just someone talking bad about them). Wanda got hugs and a bad attitude from the deal.

lol I know right! That wasn't even Jean Grey! and yet her whole family got obliterated for something someone who took the from of a realative

You're supposed to feel bad about someone who was pushed to her mental and emotional limit and did something she deeply regrets, yeah. That's what compassion for the vulnerable is about.
When have Magik and Emma Frost been punished for their actions? Both never lost their status with the X-men and Magik has been promoted in their ranks once she got her act together.

Why even give that whole spiel about Wanda needing tenderness, forgiveness, lovingness then bring up Magik and Emma asking for their punishment. tsk tsk

Scott got punished but he remained a lead role in X-men and regained everything, he's not thinking every day of what he did in the P5. That's over for him, not so for Wanda. That defined her ever since.

Yes you don't have to be Empath to feeel the love coming from Wanda here....

Jeez I guess Wanda thinks mutant babies just aint worth living unless of course they're the reincarnated souls of the ones she stole tryna give her fake kids life

That the P5 didn't originally want their power shouldn't be an excuse for their actions, while Wanda did sought out the Life Force she was also a victim just like they were. Same symptoms, where it differs is that Wanda lives every day in remorse and society and out of universe fans define her as "bad" while those very same people worship the ground the P5 walk on. Cosmic power overwhelmed both parties but only one is wondered a victim and the other a two dimensional villain.

Uhhhhh because 1 party dismantled Nuclear weapons, provided free energy, clean water, and fed the hungry.... While the other party killed a buncha people.....Kiiiinda not the same

This idea that every person on Earth, including her closet friends, should shun her for eternity is baffling and contradicts what the X-men do with their own when they fall. You want them to open a hand to their greatest enemies who have caused them more grief than Wanda ever did but want Wanda to suffer without limit. It's hypocritical to the extreme.

Um To whom are you referring?/ I can't think of any villian that has cause so many Xmen/Mutants to suffer so.
Like Wanda has... :/

They shouldn't shun her for eternity nor make her suffer without limits (I've never said that), they should just judge her for what she did at least once. The X-Men being angry at her is not a punishment, it's a reaction to what she did and she showed that she didn't really care in Uncanny Avengers (where she didn't come off very vulnerable lol). And the mutants were depicted as the bad guys in Children Crusade to make her look like the victim, even though she caused genocide with her actions.

Again you're trying to make it seem like Rogue killing her was punishment for M'Day while it clearly was not. And current Wanda doesn't even remember that.

Emma went to jail and Emma/Magik were forced to be on the run and were ostracized and hated by the X-Men and treated like criminals by the Avengers. Again, Wanda faced nothing and her teammates adored her. All she faced were some rough words from Rogue that we're now trying to make it seem like it's such a big deal. Double standard again.

Yes This allllllllDay

If Rogue had done that to a mutant, then of course we would treat her the same. But she didn't, she did it to Carol Danvers - an Avenger! They are THE VILLAINS. We think of Rogue as a hero for storming Avengers Mansion and beating the crap out of them all.

Honestly, Rogue deserves some kind of mutant medal for her Avengers work. She's the only one who gutted Wanda like a fish.

Uhh please tell me the where I can find this issue lol

[Havok83]

And once again all the consequences she has faced are ignored, because she had the audacity to be written sympathetically. The trials of the P5 are long over, and its debatable they all got the punishment for their crimes. Look at Scott, he got everything back and more.



I am curious about what Rogue thinks of Magik, post-P5, did they ever hash it over that Magik did to her?

To be fair, most of what Scott lost was unjust. He paid dearly, was killed off and was resurrected, only to be dragged again. The scene you post here comes after months of being put through hell, where even Logan was sh-tting on him from stuff that went down circa Schism/AvX

[Will Evans]

No, it was disgusting and made me sick.
Our Nightcrawler wouldn't consort with a genocide mass murderer.

Kurt would be one of the few that would forgive.

[JasmineW]

Kurt would be one of the few that would forgive.

You don't forgive people with sex, that's just weird.