Marauders #4 Pillows, Fish and the return of [Redacted] *spoilers*

[Wiccan]

Nobody can simply declare that people with a specific genetic marker are members of their nation

...Except that they can. And they literally did. Whether you think it's believable or not it's another thing, but either way it's canon on the current status quo.

[Tycon]

We do know the situation. Brazil has set up mutant-hunting predators to tear apart anyone who tries to go through the gate so mutant kids are resorted to navigating hostile waters to escape their government.

Also, if you want a list of countries let’s see (a quick list off the top)

-Genosha
-Russia
-Santo Marco
-Transia
-Chernaya

[Triniking1234]

We know almost nothing about the situation in Brazil. And when it comes to International Law, it barely matters. It really is that simple. And since when did they topple whole governments for being anti-mutant?

If Storm isn't publicly on the Government of Krakoa, does the public even know what the government of Krakoa is? How does a nation have a secret government? Or at least without having a legit facing front first?

They are saying to the international community, that if you are not treating mutants up to their standards, they will attack you with their military. Its the kind of reasoning that makes the crazy racists look like they were right on the money.

There's a historical comparison I really, really, REALLY don't want to bring up, but its on point.

Except that's not what happening. The X-Men created a country with open borders to mutants and the Marauders act as the Underground Railroad for mutants. The Marauders have never attacked first in their appearances. That Russians attacked Iceman first and Storm was defending the kids.

[pkingdom]

Except that's not what happening. The X-Men created a country with open borders to mutants and the Marauders act as the Underground Railroad for mutants. The Marauders have never attacked first in their appearances. That Russians attacked Iceman first and Storm was defending the kids.

I think that's what the idea was supposed to be, and its a cool concept in theory. But it probably would have worked better if they were trying to be more secretive about it. Having Storm, one of the most famous mutants in the world and something in charge of the country, dropping lightning bolts on soldiers in broad daylight creates some bad optics for the team and Krakoa. That's all I'm trying to say.

Now I'm trying to think what kind of team they could use if they went the sneaky Underground Railroad route. Kate would still lead, in fact she'd be perfect. Replace Storm with Nightcrawler. Maybe have someone with less flashy powers like Domino...

[Kisinith]

I think that's what the idea was supposed to be, and its a cool concept in theory. But it probably would have worked better if they were trying to be more secretive about it. Having Storm, one of the most famous mutants in the world and something in charge of the country, dropping lightning bolts on soldiers in broad daylight creates some bad optics for the team and Krakoa. That's all I'm trying to say.

Now I'm trying to think what kind of team they could use if they went the sneaky Underground Railroad route. Kate would still lead, in fact she'd be perfect. Replace Storm with Nightcrawler. Maybe have someone with less flashy powers like Domino...

Your saying the Krakoans should be worried about the optics of offending nations that are using genetically engineered mutant hunting monsters and who enslave children?

[Killerbee911]

Your saying the Krakoans should be worried about the optics of offending nations that are using genetically engineered mutant hunting monsters and who enslave children?

Mutants always have to do things 100% "the right way" or else that prove the humans right that they are monsters. If mutants don't do things the right way that allows humans the right to mistreat mutants and do bad things. Fans don't seem to see the issue with that "message".

[Kisinith]

Hmm no, what's absurd is shrugging-off that kind of damage as inconsequential to the Survival of those characters.
Your reasoning is litteraly hitting a wall with how X-Force ended last issue btw.



First off, you conveniently cut off the relevant image of her maiming, that first one you posted the pillow was still in motion and on the second one the perspective Don't allow us to see the extent of her wounds properly.
The reality is that this pillow destroyed the right side of her torso up to her face, that means the lung, the shoulder and part of her face are done for...
Secondly, it's obvious Bishop is not shooting with real rounds here, there's been stun modes on his and Cable guns for a long, long time and I've no Reason to Believe that's not the case here either.
That, or that second woman is dead too, we Don't know what happen to her after she's "shot". Which would be a pretty bad outcome for him too.

Don't know why you'd cut off the panels ACTUALLY showing properly the extant of the damages that first woman received since they are next to the ones you posted, as I said it's pretty convenient, but I digress.
I stand by what I said earlier, the nature of the wounds she received are lethal and, by the way? They weren't inflicted by a superpower, but by an object being rammed through her via a superpower. Not the same thing.
The whole diatribe about fantastical violence is irrelevant here, the wound being caused by a pretty mundane object.

Actually your right, I should have used the second image. Not because of the injuries, The first image gave a much clearer view of her front showing that the pillow was mostly in her shoulder and side and both images make it clear that most of the torso is clear. However I should have used the 2nd image because of the full voiced screaming happening. Fun fact you can't do that if you can't breathe. Short, wheezing, gaspy words sure, that full voiced scream... not a chance. I'm not medical personal but part of the yearly first aid training I get explicitly covers distressed breathing. Now it is possible if the victim is asthmatic, overweight or suffering from a significant respiratory illness that it could be worse but its not likely.
Screenshot 2019-12-19 23.30.23.jpg
Hmm its also shown that her airway is clear and unimpeded all of which indicate a maiming but not lethal injury. Also completely irrelevant because the point was that regardless of whatever your own personal prejudices and preferences, the rules under which Marvel operates are that unless its explicitly shown or told, death does not occur.

Now if you want to continue arguing hat this level of violence is out of character for Kate feel free, that argument may have traction. Arguing that comic books must adhere to real world consequences for comic book violence (something that Marvel has never done) is absurd.

[Kisinith]

Mutants always have to do things 100% "the right way" or else that prove the humans right that they are monsters. If mutants don't do things the right way that allows humans the right to mistreat mutants and do bad things. Fans don't seem to see the issue with that "message".

Its puzzling to see that argument being made, especially as it seems to most often come from those who also say that Krakoa is fundamentally changing the X-Men, yet at no point in their history (except maybe during the godawful gold/Terrigin cloud bullshit) would they have ever stood by for that crap regardless of the optics.

[Londo Bellian]

"Then Let Us Be the Monsters You Fear, The Demons You Make. You Do Not Matter. Only Mutants."

[Killerbee911]

Kitty would never do that sort of thing

[Snoop Dogg]

how could kitty do this i'm sobbing and crying all dt tried to do was slit her throat omg kitty that psycho

[pkingdom]

The mutant-devouring monsters at the gates is just so cartoonishly evil it skews any attempt to analyze the situation. I'm surprised they're doing it with Brazil and not a made up country or a country like North Korea that nobody cares about (because they're a closed market for comic books. money talks!)

Like, you could say that Krakoa was the aggressor, by opening portals in Brazil that lead directly to their country with all their 'dangerous' mutants. Its a new border, which causes tons of problems with every nation. But people eating monsters as a response? How?! Why?! How is that in any way shape or form seen as a legit response and not an international scandal in its own right?

When I said optics, I meant that they should try to avoid situations where they look like the aggressors. That's why I said they should have been sneakier about this. They already have enough problems without intentionally making more. Places like Brazil already hate them to a ridiculous degree. Krakoa should try not to give them anything that they can use to claim to the rest of the world that they are in the right.

[Kisinith]

The mutant-devouring monsters at the gates is just so cartoonishly evil it skews any attempt to analyze the situation. I'm surprised they're doing it with Brazil and not a made up country or a country like North Korea that nobody cares about (because they're a closed market for comic books. money talks!)

Like, you could say that Krakoa was the aggressor, by opening portals in Brazil that lead directly to their country with all their 'dangerous' mutants. Its a new border, which causes tons of problems with every nation. But people eating monsters as a response? How?! Why?! How is that in any way shape or form seen as a legit response and not an international scandal in its own right?

When I said optics, I meant that they should try to avoid situations where they look like the aggressors. That's why I said they should have been sneakier about this. They already have enough problems without intentionally making more. Places like Brazil already hate them to a ridiculous degree. Krakoa should try not to give them anything that they can use to claim to the rest of the world that they are in the right.

Thats fair and in a real world situation you'd be 100% right, or more specifically with a more serious take on the subject you'd be 100% right. However Marauders, right out of the gate is designed with a more whimsical humorous take. This does make the plots and villains a bit more cartoonish but its by design. Its a mix of X-Men and Pirates of the Caribbean, is it logical? Hell no, but it has been fun. What your describing is more in line with whats happening in X-Force.

[pkingdom]

Thats fair and in a real world situation you'd be 100% right, or more specifically with a more serious take on the subject you'd be 100% right. However Marauders, right out of the gate is designed with a more whimsical humorous take. This does make the plots and villains a bit more cartoonish but its by design. Its a mix of X-Men and Pirates of the Caribbean, is it logical? Hell no, but it has been fun. What your describing is more in line with whats happening in X-Force.

That's fair. Its a bit tonal whiplash between these series. And I think Marauders want to go more goofy, but then they have things like mutant hunting monsters. I don't care as much about the violence as some of the others, but that Deathstrike knockoff fight was pretty brutal.

Though, you could say the same about Pirates of the Caribbean, so....its on point?

[People Of The Earth]

Actually your right, I should have used the second image. Not because of the injuries, The first image gave a much clearer view of her front showing that the pillow was mostly in her shoulder and side and both images make it clear that most of the torso is clear.

Again, in the first image you posted the pillow was still in motion - you can see it going through her right arm actually, and that's obviously not the case anymore in the actually relevant panel you finally relented to post.
So I still disagree with your assessment, especially with the bolded part.
The right side of her torso was merged with that pillow, from bellow her chest to the middle of her face: that's the ribs, lung, shoulder and jaw on those sides that are done for.
Same for the circulatory system in the affected area that is either severed or destroyed as a result of the maiming.

However I should have used the 2nd image because of the full voiced screaming happening. Fun fact you can't do that if you can't breathe. Short, wheezing, gaspy words sure, that full voiced scream... not a chance.

Nicely irrelevant though, seeing as the point I made was about the internal bleedings caused by the wound she sustained and the risk of her drowning in her own blood as a result - litteraly.
And that's not Something who would happen instantly, even with the kind of trauma her lung experienced.

I'm not medical personal but part of the yearly first aid training I get explicitly covers distressed breathing. Now it is possible if the victim is asthmatic, overweight or suffering from a significant respiratory illness that it could be worse but its not likely.

As a side note, I find it nice that your society take first-aid training so seriously: beyond lawful commitments, it's a mark (among others) of good ohs culture.

Screenshot 2019-12-19 23.30.23.jpg
Hmm its also shown that her airway is clear and unimpeded all of which indicate a maiming but not lethal injury.

As I said, internal bleeding is the real concern here, beyond all the physical damages she sustained.
That her trachea remained unskated is irrelevant here.
Her right lung is done for, her circulatory system is compromised in the area affected by the pillow, the chance of her drowning in her own blood is real.

Also completely irrelevant because the point was that regardless of whatever your own personal prejudices and preferences, the rules under which Marvel operates are that unless its explicitly shown or told, death does not occur.

Good thing my point was about the gravity of the wound inflicted by Kitty then, not about whether or not that woman was actually dead.
I said - quite clearly, quite extensively even - that the nature of those wounds were lethal to most people in 616 and that, unless that woman received immediate medical help or possessed an Healing factor, or any sort of Healing power, she would die from the wound as a result.
That's an observation, as much as noting Kitty new lease on violence inflicted on others and her developing drinking habits.

Now if you want to continue arguing hat this level of violence is out of character for Kate feel free, that argument may have traction.

I do feel it's a departure from where she was again months ego, I expect this kind of violence from the likes of Punisher or Wolverine, not from her and what I Don't understand is why this escalation happen NOW exactly (the Reason in-universe I mean).

Arguing that comic books must adhere to real world consequences for comic book violence (something that Marvel has never done) is absurd.

As I said, there's Always a level of commonality between IRL and 616.
The sky is blue.
The sun rises east and sets west.
Taxes will get to you annually.
And so on and so forth.
Violence and its conséquences are no different.
A bullet in the head or a knife in the heart are generally Deadly wounds for anyone. Losing a lung is no joke either.
The nuance in comics lies in how fast and loose the writers plays with superpowers to overcome that.

Again, the nature of the wound that woman receive are catastrophic and unless she receives help or has an Healing power, she will die as a result.
Kitty didn't know if that woman had said Healing powers or if she would receive medical assistance immediately - she didn't know, and it looks like she didn't care either. That attitude, more than anything, is what I find annoying.
It circles back to what I said about her not acting the par of someone who went through what she went through for years, with the experience and maturity she accumulated as a result, but as a petulant, reckless teenager that she hasn't been anymore factually for years now…
It's jarring.