New Mutants Movie

[BroHomo]

Oh and BroHomo, I'm certainly not complaining. I stand by those that are upset by Bobby and Cecelia's casting. I also tend to play devil's advocate and try to see all angles of things so apologies if it seemed like I wasn't supportive..

Yeah Bro I wasn't exactly calling You personally out. Its cool you're at least acknowledging that it the casting is problematic. I thoroughly enjoy playing the devils advocate....Im just unable to see this issue from the other side. No need to apologize, from your post it's clear you're being supportive
lol

[pandafarmer]

I figured. You know I got love for you!

I think a lot of people who might be in the "geez get over it" camp don't know how deep this rabbit hole goes. From the origin story of the character to race relations of his home country, it's a bigger deal than "he's not black ENOUGH." I can see how if you go in thinking "what's the problem, they got the country right" it's a bit of a bamboozle to them, but you always have to remember that it's not always the surface issue that is THE issue when people are outraged.

[Zelena]

"he's not black ENOUGH.".

I agree there is a problem of representation of Black people in the media… Still, I find this "outrage" a bit disrespectful to the actor that has been chosen that is more than his skin color, more than an appearance…

[BroHomo]

I figured. You know I got love for you!

WoW! GeeZ!!

I think a lot of people who might be in the "geez get over it" camp don't know how deep this rabbit hole goes. From the origin story of the character to race relations of his home country, it's a bigger deal than "he's not black ENOUGH." I can see how if you go in thinking "what's the problem, they got the country right" it's a bit of a bamboozle to them, but you always have to remember that it's not always the surface issue that is THE issue when people are outraged.

Yeah Im actually surprised a sh!t ton of people seem to be confused on the difference between ethnicity and race. Its not that easy to 'get over' as some may think, Especially if a person is a fan of the X-Men, frequent sites like this...etc. Liiiiike Ive been waiting FOREVER for a New Mutants flick. I consume ANYthing New Mutants with a voracious appetite. It seriously sucks not being able to join in the excitement and anticipation of seeing the film

I agree there is a problem of representation of Black people in the media… Still, I find this "outrage" a bit disrespectful to the actor that has been chosen that is more than his skin color, more than an appearance…

Huh? How is Zaga being disrespected? No one is saying anything false or negative about him.... More than his appearance? How do you think he got hired?

[pandafarmer]

Yeah Im actually surprised a sh!t ton of people seem to be confused on the difference between ethnicity and race. Its not that easy to 'get over' as some may think, Especially if a person is a fan of the X-Men, frequent sites like this...etc. Liiiiike Ive been waiting FOREVER for a New Mutants flick. I consume ANYthing New Mutants with a voracious appetite. It seriously sucks not being able to join in the excitement and anticipation of seeing the film

I think for "Anglo Americans" it's easy to forget it's not always a literal black/white issue. In Europe you get the whole mix of people in a small space and the personalities between the countries are pretty evident so white on white discrimination is a thing. You don't confuse a Ukrainian with a French person for example. In the US the worst you get is East Coast vs West Coast or a Midwestern meeting some stereotypical Southern Lady like she's some exotic subspecies but it's very much treated as a joke in most cases and not a serious problem. So when you bring up the idea that two ethnically different people of color might have racism it's a bit mind blowing. I think in America the more sheltered white folks are trained to think it's "white people and then all the other colors of people" and that's it.

[Tunasammiches]

You mean Black. The Dudes not black Being from the same country doesn't mean you have the same experiences. Why is the fact that the actor is from Brazil more important than his race? You think if he was walking down the street in another country people will think of him as Brazilian??? Nah he'd be Black[/B]
lol

Hmm... no I didn't mean 'black', I meant what I meant. Nowhere in canon is Roberto labeled as black, but he's always labeled as Brazilian. He is always colored as dark skinned with wavy (not kinky) hair, so I've always visualized him as a dark skinned Brazilian. Now, I'm not saying he is not of African decent, because yes, in that respect he's got black in him, but his mom is light skinned with red hair so there is also anglo European in his blood. So he is of mixed decent, not just black. Also bro, if you want to talk about having different experiences due to skin color, your argument for Roberto falls flat - because it's not like Roberto has had it rough or anything, he's extremely rich and seems to come from old money. I'm not saying that black people don't have extravagant lifestyles, I'm just saying your argument doesn't work. Also, I don't know you or where you come from, but whenever I've left the US and visited the Dominican Republic (my boyfriend's family is from there) or Cuba (also family down there), and I've noticed that nationality IS actually considered more important that "race". Culturally, people in those places do acknowledge that their people are light skinned, dark skinned and black skinned. But they if you ask them how they identify themselves, they don't go around saying "i'm black!" or "i'm white"... no, they identify as "Dominican" or "I'm Cuban", and they might go so far as to identify the region they come from, but not once did I talk to a black skinned Dominican who identified as "just black". The only people I hear wanting to categorize black people as an "other race" are folks from the US, who only know what the black experience is like from an American historical perspective. Back to Roberto, the actor, Henry Braga, is Brazilian. So far as I've seen him portray the character as well as his costume styling (prep look with popped collar) seems on-point to me. I would have loved to see representation of a darker-skinned Roberto too, but what they've put together so far seems to encompass the main essence of the character to me.

Again... You mean Black. She's not Black Is CeCe Reyes? Yes and You seem to forget that Puerto Ricans..Brazilains...Americans...Canadians...etc can come in any race. Bobby and CeCe are Black to knowingly erase that for a movie is an odd and insulting move. Is she ethnic? Everyone is ethnic dude.
Puerto Rico and Brazil are not in the same region....they dont even speak the same language. The actors chosen for those 2 characters are white in Brazil sooooooo

I never said PR and Brazil were the same. I was referring to Roberto and the actor who plays him being rom the same region, not Cece. Again... I did not mean "black". I'm identifying her as she identified herself in canon. Her last name is REYES, a hispanic surname. Her first name is CECELIA, also a hispanic name. Her brother's name is Col. MIGUEL Reyes. She's clearly of latino decent and her skin tone indicates afro-Carribean decent. So yes, she's got black in her, but she's also Puerto Rican.

My question to you is, why do only see her as a black woman? Kind of reductive don't you think? Is Halle Barry "just black"? Because she's half white. Is Wentworth Millar (who plays Dr. Cold on the CW's Legends of Tomorrow) a white guy? Because he's half Jamaican. Is Rashida Jones a white girl? Because she's half black too. My point is, you can't accurately judge a person's identity from their skin color. Things like heritage, genes mixing, and climate/region affect these types of visual markers. Mixed race people from a different culture like myself don't necessarily like being classified as one thing, based on what you see, rather than what you know. My boyfriend is a dark skinned Dominican/Cuban guy, who looks like a black guy, as "black" as Cece, but culturally, my boyfriend is not black. His dad is a light skinned Dominican guy with red hair and his mom is a dark skinned Cuban woman and they all speak spanish at home. They might have African lineage (from a distant ancestor), but their family is not classified as black, nor do they classify themselves as black. We are more than our skin and we don't like to be marginalized and just because other folks don't know how to look closer than what they see, doesn't mean that we need to identify ourselves like other prefer to identify us. I'm actually curious to know your views on the trans community now. Are you the kind of person to deny the them their gender identity too, because they were born one way but identify another?

Although to your point, the actress playing Cece is Brazilian....so I was wrong in that respect, I thought the actress was from Caribbean decent. (I hear what you're saying because I get mad when casting directors cast for asian families and can't tell a Japanese person apart from a Vietnamese person (or don't care the difference), even though their dialects give it away and facial features give it away) I don't enjoy seeing white washing of characters in Hollywood or other media either, and unlike Roberto's casting and portrayal, Cece in the movie doesn't feel at all like the woman in the comic. I wish they stayed more true to some aspect of her character - and I'm not just talking about her skin tone.

Eh a lotta people aren't aware that the movies so whitewashed, If people calling it out for its overtly passive racism is irksome to you, maybe you should take time to ask themselves Why....Cause complaining about people complaining is the most complainest complaints

And Black
lol

Yeah I think I get your point (except the part about the prosthetic part? Who are you talking about?) I hate white washing too. I would love to see more representation of brown and black minorities, different body types, different ages, different cultures and all that good stuff. I'm not so much complaining about complainers, I'm more adding a voice to some of the people who think today's "outrage culture" is a bit disengenuous. Sounds more like folks jumping on an outrage bandwagon without thinking about the actual intricacies of race and identity politics.

[useridgoeshere]

Nowhere in canon is Roberto labeled as black, but he's always labeled as Brazilian.

Why comment when you don’t even know the basics of the character? He’s literally called Black in his very first appearance. His origin is that he’s a Black kid who gets picked on and attacked because he’s Black. It’s the reason his powers activate.

And you should educate yourself on race in Brazil in movies, TV and advertising. What the people behind New Mutants have done is bring the lack of recognition of Black Brazilians in entertainment to American movies. Bobby’s whitewashing is actually worse because he’s Brazilian.

[Tunasammiches]

Why comment when you don’t even know the basics of the character? He’s literally called Black in his very first appearance. His origin is that he’s a Black kid who gets picked on and attacked because he’s Black. It’s the reason his powers activate.

And you should educate yourself on race in Brazil in movies, TV and advertising. What the people behind New Mutants have done is bring the lack of recognition of Black Brazilians in entertainment to American movies. Bobby’s whitewashing is actually worse because he’s Brazilian.

Why are you responding to my comment when you clearly don't know his basics either? Here, why don't you let Wikipedia prove it to you:

Attachment 92818
First line for Sunspot's bio clearly states: "Roberto da Costa, is Brazilian, the son of wealthy Afro-Brazilian businessman Emmanuel da Costa and his white American mother archaeologist Nina da Costa." So his dad is black and his mom is white. That equals a mixed race (or "pardo" as they say in Brazil), not just black; so maybe you should check yourself before you go "correcting" people. As for him being literally called "black" in his first appearance, I know that scene well - that line comes from a white/light skinned bully. It's an ignorant comment that was written to sound ignorant coming from an ignorant racist person, not taken as fact. Bullying made his powers activate, not the fact that he was called a black guy by a racist. That white boy identified Roberto based on discrimination, but I've never seen Roberto, his family or the writers classify him as black. That's the whole point of my statements. As a mixed race asian/sicilian guy who grew up in a mostly white american suburb, I'm not gonna let people identify me who they think I am based on what they see as an asian guy, or the limited scope of what they know about "race", knowing that I'm almost half not asian at all. Btw, Roberto's white american mom say's hi.

New Mutants 007-00fc.jpg

As for whitewashing in movies, I'm fully aware of it. I work in the entertainment industry and live in LA. I don't disagree with you on that, in fact I share some rage, but again, I do recommend you check yourself before assuming things about my education and experience. Roberto's whitewashing is no worse than what's happened with the race bending in the Dr Strange movie, changing an asian character to a white british lady. I'm not saying either cases are not bad, I'm just saying I've lived with whitewashing and casting a light-skinned brazilian is not what I would consider as a worse case scenario. If the actor was irish or something, then I'd have a problem... You know what else bugs me about media bias? That everyone is traditionally "beautiful" and thin/fit, and young. Why is nobody complaining about the lack of body types in movies? This is exactly what I'm talking about with the outrage culture. More bias than facts.

[Celestial]

The point is, Zaga isn’t black at all not even half where as Sunspot is half black. Yes Zaga is Brazilian. They got the nationality right but the race is completely wrong. The women playing Cecelia isn’t black at all either and they didn’t even get the right nationality. Cecelia is an Afro Latina from Puerto Rico meaning she’s black. Black is the race. Latino is the ethnicity. This isn’t that difficult to understand. And it’s sad because I feel like people purposely ignore these issues to sound spiteful.

[yogaflame]

Who is this? Is he black?

Roberto is mixed, but he's also black.

[Slicknickshady]

Zaga is black.

[Tunasammiches]

The point is, Zaga isn’t black at all not even half where as Sunspot is half black. Yes Zaga is Brazilian. They got the nationality right but the race is completely wrong. The women playing Cecelia isn’t black at all either and they didn’t even get the right nationality. Cecelia is an Afro Latina from Puerto Rico meaning she’s black. Black is the race. Latino is the ethnicity. This isn’t that difficult to understand. And it’s sad because I feel like people purposely ignore these issues to sound spiteful.

Sunspot is half white, so they didn't get the race "completely wrong", they got it half wrong. I feel as though your point is almost correct, on the surface, but not really. Let's break your own terminology down: Cecelia is an Afro (black) Latina (Hispanics and Latinos are of Spanish decent, not afro). Therefore, as a boriquan woman she is mixed race. Puerto Ricans are descended from (partially African) and (partially native/indegenous Tainos) and back in the day, European settlers took over Puerto Rico and wiped out the indigenous caribbeans. So even though they have darker skin, pure black Puerto Ricans are actually a minority, not the majority. Everyone seems to see the black but not the Taino. And to be clear, I did not say Cece is FROM Puerto Rico, as that has never been stated in canon. She could very well be an American-born New Yorker. I agree with you it's sad that folks don't know the difference between race and ethnicity. I am not just rebutting Cece's cultural associations, but her biological ones as well.

As for Zaga as Roberto, I agree he's not half black like Roberto. They did get the nationality right, and I think they actually got half of his race right, since he is Brazilian, which is more than I can say for Cece.

[Tunasammiches]

Who is this? Is he black?

Roberto is mixed, but he's also black.

Who is this? Troian Bellisario from Pretty Little Liars. Is she white? She is mixed, but she's also black.

Screen Shot 2020-02-06 at 11.13.09 PM.jpg

Are you gonna honestly tell me that if you see her walking down the street that you're going to classify her as a black girl? Or are you just going to assume she's white and ignore her black heritage?

This game can be played on both ends. Don't identify folks by just their skin color. As a designer who works with color on a daily basis, and has dealt with ignorant americans for most of my life, I can tell you that color is misleading. It's the most common mistake people make.

[yogaflame]

Zaga isn't mixed or black. The end.

[Tunasammiches]

Zaga isn't mixed or black. The end.

Brazil is one of the most super diverse countries. People are either descended from Amerindians, Europeans and Africans. His bio says he's latino (his real name is Henrique Chagas Moniz de Aragão Gonzaga), and judging from Zaga's facial features and hair type, I'd say he's of Euro descent or mixed, but not fully european white. Based on her picture, his mom's looks to be of Spanish descent, which has its own racial and ethnic mixing ingredients to add to the Brazilian soup mix.