So, what is *your* take on Superman?

[Francisco]

I really like Kryptonite and the red sun radiation weakness. Especially kryptonite, what's poisonous to the Man of Tomorrow? Fragments of his past. That's why I also agree that his parents, birth and adoptive should be gone. He's on his own.

I'd prefer if he had just one identifiable weakness and it should be Kryptonite. Red sun radiation shouldn't be a weakness. It simply should mean that he can't fly and isn't as strong as he would be if exposed to yellow, white or blue sun light

[Francisco]

Prior to Crisis--as a kid, teen and young adult--I was always looking for ways that Superman could be more cosmic. The fact he was limted to yellow sun systems--and maybe a few other solar systems, but I think under green and blue suns his powers were diminished--that was something that bothered me. I wanted him to find ways to up his power levels so he could go all over the universe. Maybe he could have a yellow sun ring like the one Nor-Kan had in Kandor or he could get a GL ring from the Guardians or he could use his old Legion flight ring.

These were the sort of problems that consumed my imagination back then.

So it seems weird to me that some readers are so focused on Superman the Earthbound social worker. While that's a plank in his platform and has inspired some good stories, it's never the thing that I worried over. I always wanted more astounding science adventures beyond the unknown into forbidden worlds of time and relative dimension in space.

I think scientist/inventor Superman is the solution to that aspect. If he is a scientist we could have stories in which he develops ways to circumvent the red sun issues and ways to be able to travel anywhere in the universe. That's why I think that aspects like his strength and invulnerability should be independent from the color of the sun he is under. So under a red sun he'd still be superhuman strong, durable and fast but couldn't fly.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I'd prefer if he had just one identifiable weakness and it should be Kryptonite. Red sun radiation shouldn't be a weakness. It simply should mean that he can't fly and isn't as strong as he would be if exposed to yellow, white or blue sun light

I like that idea too, under a Red Sun, he's Captain America or Spiderman strong. The problem with Red Sun Radiation and even Kryptonite, why wouldn't his foes always attack that way. Especially the genius inventors and cosmic beings.

[Agent Z]

I like that idea too, under a Red Sun, he's Captain America or Spiderman strong. The problem with Red Sun Radiation and even Kryptonite, why wouldn't his foes always attack that way. Especially the genius inventors and cosmic beings.

I'm guessing it's because the resources are limited.

[Francisco]

I'm guessing it's because the resources are limited.

That would be in the case of kryptonite. It been such a rare element to come by but red solar radiation should be easy to duplicate by any self respecting genius.

[Jim Kelly]

It depends what you mean by yellow sun radiation or red sun radiation.

In the sun you have an enormous cascade of nuclear fusion going on for billions of years. The power of these heaveanly bodies is huge and at magnitudes far beyond what our mere science could create in anything like safe conditions. You'd have to be Gallifreyan to create a star-sun that you could use for your own personal whims.

Yet the way that your average crackpot scientist creates some red sun device to neutralize Superman, you'd think all it involved was putting a red lens over a flashlight.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I do think the red flashlights is all it takes in most comics these days. That's why synthetic Kryptonite makes more sense to imagine a villain creating, there's no hard science behind it.

[Francisco]

Yeah. I think what weakens him is the wavelength of the light. In actuality red solar radiation (light) doesn't weakens Superman it just doesn't power him up. Under a red sun Superman slowly consumes the energy stored in his cells but the red solar radiation doesn't replenish it as efficiently as yellow solar radiation would. It is a weakness that doesn't make sense when he is on Earth.

[Last Son]

OK people, what if we do this once again? I believe I started a similar thread years ago, but it was deleted. So, how would you write him? Would you change anything from his origin? Interactions? Relationships? Settings? Enemies? Powers? Suit? Fortress? Would you change anything from Krypton? Would he still work at The Planet? (Regarding this final question, I thought him quitting the planet and going independent was an interesting move, perhaps I'd try something similar, OR I'd change the daily itself)

In my case, my vision is very specific, and it starts with two words: alien god (but I guess you already know that, eh? ).

Alien, because I'm sick of him being portrayed as a meta and hell, if he's an alien he should be portrayed as such (and no, by that I don't mean that he should be detached from humanity or anything of the sort). And god, because he should be *crazy* powerful. And immortal. And a scientist. I think it's fun to see him in his lab creating stuff. I really want to enhance the sci-fi aspect of the character.

And here is where my touted "Superman guidelines" come into play. They are also very specific.

I would certainly redesign his suit to make it look more alien. It would be tough though. There are lots of awesome redesigns out there, but I'd give it a shot anyway. But damn, it's been so long since I last drew anything.

As for personality, perhaps among the lines of early n52 Supes. Intimidating when he wants to be, irreverent to those who want to put him down, and a bit of a temper.

And yes, there's SMWW.

So, how about you?

I like Superman being as traditional as possible(without the heavy reimaginings of the post crisis era mainly), but not quite silver age either. My Superman is a man of two worlds but leans more toward human than Kryptonian since he experienced Earth culture directly growing up while Kryptonian culture was either learned through crystals and holograms or faint early childhood memories from before he was sent to Earth. He identifies as Clark Kent, but at the same time, he does pretend to be more timid than he really is to set himself apart from Superman. In a sense, his Clark is the person he might have been if he was really human and never had powers. Maybe he even had the "disguise" from a young age, like in Superboy comics.

As a person, he is very selfless and heroic, but not superhumanly so. He has moments of weakness and doesn't immediately have the answer to every problem. Still, I think what people perceive as unrealistically or unrelatably good is definitely achievable by real human beings, it just makes them feel bad because they don't do charity work or volunteer or go overseas and feed the hungry and build houses for the homeless and all that. Yeah, the average person is generally good in that they don't steal or kill or cheat but many are still relatively selfish and lazy, but that doesn't mean superheroes have to be.

I don't believe in the "there's always a way" mantra and believe there are occasions where Superman can't save everyone and some villains can only be stopped by killing them. I don't think Superman should resort to killing in his very first time out as Superman. At first, he can be the "there's always a way" guy who comes up with creative, non-violent solutions to problems but eventually, he'll reach his limits(with a villain like Doomsday, for example) and have to kill.

I don't think there's any problem with Superman being very powerful, as it's clear that characters such as the Hulk and Thor can be ridiculously powerful and still be popular and successful characters. I do believe most people actually enjoy ridiculous superhuman feats and don't pessimistically pick apart the physics of everything and complain about believability. As long as it's built up to properly, Superman can save the world by pushing it with his bare hands and it will be looked at as one of the greatest moments in cinematic history rather than an absurd, turn-your-brain-off, movie-killing moment. One of the main reasons people even like superheroes and sci-fi is because of larger than life characters and happenings that aren't possible in real life, like planet-sized space stations that can blow up other planets and ships that can travel several times the speed of light.

Anyway, power-wise, Superman's absolute muscle-tearing, back-breaking limit would be along the lines of moving the Earth, and it's not something he can normally do and takes an excruciating amount of effort that nearly kills him.

My Krypton and Fortress would be Donner-inspired to a certain extent, but Krypton wouldn't be an exact replica of the Donner version, though it would include crystalline buildings and terrain in the design(along with architecture inspired by the silver age and Byrne's designs, similar to the pre-Flashpoint Krypton). As part of Superman's origin, Clark would journey to the Arctic and throw a crystal into the ice which creates the fortress, where he communicates with a hologram of Jor-El, but not for 12 years as in the movie. The suit would either be a Kryptonian suit created by the fortress or he could return to Smallville where the Kents help him create a suit with his baby blankets.

[Lairston]

I would probably return to the Pre-Crisis Origin for Superman and the pre-Crisis Kryton blowing up like it did with Jor'el sending him to earth. The Kents discovered his ship and took him home and raised him. He grew up with his powers developing earlier than post Crisis. He would not be as strong as he is today but he would have been the equivalent of himself at ten when he was ten. So he would be Superboy in Smallville. And I'd probably even give him powers when he was a baby. Ie the Kent would really have to keep an eye on him that he doesn't do something as a baby to reveal himself. Maybe he could jump like he did in his earlier Golden Age adventures before he could fly.

He would reveal himself to Lana Lang at some point and they were an item growing up. And they might even have become engaged at some point but it would have been called off for some reason. And eventually they would break up permanently and his leaving Smallville hurt her and she has possibly some anger toward him for it. But its not something they wouldn't be able to work through and remain friends.

Him being Superboy would open up the possibility of the Legion in the future. There would be no other Superboy if I was running things. Superboy would be what it always was in the past: The adventures of Superman as a boy. The thing that drives me nuts about DC is today they think everything has to happen on the same earth and at the same time... It doesn't.

Moving into Metropolis, the Daily Planet would be changed to an online publication that people pay for access too like most newspapers today. Perhaps there is also still a print version as well. Lois Lane would be the one to get the first story of Superman's move to Metropolis. How? By him saving her such as the airplane route that was used in I believe Man of Steel. I might be misremembering that.

Lex Luthor would be the genius businessman of the post-Crisis era and his business was built on his scientific creations. Only he would be younger more like his discovered post-Crisis "son" (when he cloned himself when he was dying). He would hate Superman because he is an alien and consider him a threat to humanity and the world. He would make it his life's work to end Superman. No matter what good Superman does, he would find a reason to see it as a threat.

Powerwise, Superman would be like the Silver Age in power. He would be able to travel in time if he wanted. And he would be a genius.

His suit would not be changed from what it was in before nu52 and preferrably a return to the 86 suit or 2003 suit since those were my favorite suits. Anyone who thinks the costume is cheezy is free to head off to another Superhero. :P

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I have always seen Superman as a god who thinks he's a man, similar to how Batman is a man who has tricked criminals into thinking he's a god.

Because Superman is so god-like (which doesn't mean perfect), I think Lois & Jimmy really need to be the POV characters. The fact that DC hasn't had a Lois Lane solo comic in decades is astonishing to me. She's one of the most recognizable characters in history and DC doesn't think she could support her own series? How many times have B-listers and C-listers like Aquaman, Hawkman, The Atom, Doctor Fate and The Spectre gotten another failed solo series over the years while Lois Freaking Lane gets nothing? She's a woman so special, so human, so fearless and courageous that she's won the heart of the most powerful being on Earth, but she doesn't have enough potential to support a monthly series? I call shenanigans on all that noise.

I like the merger of billionaire mogul Lex and mad scientist Lex. While I think he should be spending time in prison, he should also be smart enough to wrangle himself numerous pardons, mistrials and endless appeals to walk free just as often. I think having Lex and Clark be friends when they were teenagers is important to their contemporary antagonism, because Superman needs to have known Lex before he was a villain. He needs to know that underneath all the hate and darkness, there is still a brilliant genius who could do great things for the world. Without that, the rivalry between them is missing a crucial element.

As far as the origin goes, I think a healthy mix of Waid's Clark/Lex from Birthright, Johns' Silver Age/Bronze Age/Donner/Byrne redux from Secret Origin and Morrison's Golden Age social crusader revival would work the best.

Superman has plenty of great villains that challenge him both mentally and physically, but the real challenge for a character as powerful as Superman is finding conflicts that put him to the test spiritually, that force him to make tough moral choices and emerge victorious. And I am not taking about executing Zod. Superman doesn't kill. Period. Superman always finds a way. Superman does the impossible.

I agree. While villains who can be a match for Superman physically are a must and provide great spectacle, I think the greatest challenges the Man of Steel can face are the ones you mention. As for the relationship between Lex and Clark, Waid portrayed beautifully in Birthright, and it indeed adds a layer to their conflict.

Thanks! Always seemed like common sense to me to combine both aspects of Lex.

I'd be interested in seeing your take on the suit! That being said, I do think its dangerous to stray too far from the original suit. My idea of the suit is that it needs that classic feel to it while being slightly modernized.

As far as Supergirl goes, she should be around, but I wouldn't make her a supporting cast. Same goes for Superboy.

On a side note, everyone loves T-shirt and jeans social crusader Superman... that would be my take on Superboy. That way we could have a more "mature/experienced" Superman. Meanwhile, Kon could fill out that "brash/impulsive" Superman void.

Thanks. I agree, I wouldn't deviate too much form the basic "structure" of the suit. But I imagine it should reunite both the "alien" and "God" characteristics. Also, why just one suit, right? I liked that Action Comics variant cover in which Supes is in front of a wardrobe at his fortress trying to choose what to wear. Kryptonian culture is a rich one, and it should show.

My take is to define Superman by his relationships. His friends and family make him who he is far more than his powers. His relationships with humans are to be emphasized.

Characters to introduce early on-Linda Danvers/Matrix and Steel. These characters emphasize his ability to inspire people, including other heroes, and the stepsister relastionship with Linda is one of his most interesting.

Characters to be introduced later on-Kara and Connor. Even if Supes isn't the 'last son,' he should stay that way for a while. By their nature these characters cannot be there at the start of a new continuity. As a clone Connor is obviously someone who can't exist until Superman is established, and having another recurring Kryptonian character makes Superman less special if done too early.

Well, I think that the existence of another Kryptonian, regardless of when he/she shows up, does make Supes a bit less special. But I'm guessing that's just me.

And seeing him defined by his relationships is an interesting angle. Who would you do it? From those characters POV perhaps?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

A brash hero that tries to do the right thing but it is more optimistic in realism. Social crusader and fighter for freedom for all around the world. He is like a god. I dig the Lee's remake of the costume (first new 52 one). No mullet.

Keep his homely beginnings, Pete, Lara (his first girlfriend) then goes to college in Kansas, works his way up into the Daily Planet where he meets Jimmy, Lois, Perry, Cat and so on. He grows disillusioned on how news is reported like tabloid stuff, clickbait and all that jazz, so he quits and with Cat Grant and Jimmy they create a blog that tries to compete against the power of the DP. Him and Lois used to date but they both felt it wasn't working out since they both didn't have time. Lois got promoted to one of the top news companies (think CNN or BBC) and goes around the world like bigger DC or you can make DP one of the biggest in the world and widen their reporting.

He's one of the founding members with the JL, he trusts everyone in the league, ever hero. His best friend isn't Bruce or Diana but John Stewart, I think they would have a lot in common and also add Guy Gardner and Vixen. Kara goes to college in LA and she checks in time to time and vice versa. Superboy lives in the midwest where he's raised by Lana and he's still a clone. Superboy is in the TT on and off and isn't linked romantically to anyone. Lana and Jimmy are the only one who knows that Clark is Superman. Steel and Lana dating, so we can have adventures with Supes, Lana and Steel.

Romantically he had previous relationships with Lana, Lori (college), Lois, Diana (until that didn't work), a fling with Maxima, he dates Zatanna or Cat Grant (a little newsroom necking). He is a mentor to Shazam, The Super characters, Stargirl, Blue Beetle and so on. I felt he would be a better mentor than Bruce, Hal and Diana.

Have zany cosmic adventures as well. I love those because it's different.

Villains are pretty consistent, I'm going leave those as they are.

You have some interesting ideas here. Hadn't thought about a close friendship between Kal and John Stewart, guy Gardner and Visen, of all people. Also, Zatanna? Never thought of that one either. Where did that come from?

And yes, cosmic adventures FTW! Weird planets, dimensions, meeting (and/ or fighting) unknown alien species. I miss that from the comics.

I'd use a variation on Elliot Maggin's Krypton. The place was hostile to humanoid life and Kryptonians had to adapt numerous defenses to survive there. Vision expanded to encompass more of the electromagnetic spectrum to compensate for the dim red sun. The scarcity of vegetation led to cells designed to take in energy from other sources. The intense gravity led to muscles designed to move bodies that weighed as much as elephants and bodies able to resist being torn apart by impact or the force of those muscles.

In short, everthing about Superman is designed to work under conditions that would kill almost every other race in the universe. And that is before we factor in just how his systems react to the rays of our sun. So while he is less-powerful if cut off from the sun- he still is super compared to us even under those conditions. While kryptonite can kill him, it doesn't make him vulnerable to knives, clubs and small arms fire.

Krypton's destruction would be something of a massive volcanic effect. The planet wouldn't explode like a bomb, but instead the Kryptonian race would die from a combination of factors. A series of "earthquakes" would tear apart large portions of the surface. At the same time a cloud of soot would block out what little energy came from the red sun. And finally that soot would contain Kryptonite which would weaken further those not killed in the original planetary upheaval.

Jor-El would be in a unique position that allowed him to see the disaster coming and have the resources to save his children, 10 year old Kara and infant Kal.

Their ship would crash to Earth in an isolated area in the past. the children would remain buried and in statsis until the dawning of the 21st century.

Jake Kent and his wife Doctor Sarah Kent would find infant Kal-El (and his rocket) while performing missionary work in a remote area. Due to the fact they were out of contact for a prolonged period they were able to pass the child off as their own. When their tour ends they return to Jake's home town of Smallville, NY where Jake has inherited a farm from his uncle Jonathan. Sarah opens a private practice as a general practitioner to the town. With the help of a few friends (Archeology professor Lewis Lang, Lewis' brother-in-law Phineas Potter, and local sheriff Douglas Parker) the Kents raise young Clark and cope with his unusual abilities.

In his early teens Clark takes it upon himself to use his powers to help others. Although his parents initially disapprove, Clark manages to convince them that he can keep anyone from connecting Clark Kent to the mysterious Superboy. These initial adventures mostly involve Clark assisting with disasters (fighting wildfires, rescuing people in floods, etc. During this time Superboy meets Lex Luthor, a student at nearby Midvale University, who becomes Superboy's behind-the-scenes technological ace-in-the hole. And Clark meets some fellow high-school students who are really time-travelers come back to study Superman's early career.

A year or so in Clark sees Lex turn against him after a lab accident. He also meet another teen with similar powers (Superboy II aka Lar Gand of Daxam). The two boys share the Superboy identity for several months (at the urging of the Kents) until it is discovered that lar's powers are unstable and potentially fatal to him. And Clark encounters yet a third Superboy. an artificial clone that was created in the same lab accident that injured Lex. Eventually this clone will deteriorate into Bizarro.

At age 18, Clark retires as a hero after Lex manages to connect Superboy to Smallville and passes the information on to a criminal organization that attacks the town. Although the attack is thwarted in a way that makes it seem Lex was wrong, Clark feels that continuing his Superboy career will only risk a repeat of this. It doesn't help that his father Jake Kent dies of a stroke shortly after Clark's high-school graduation.

Over the next few years Clark travels the globe and even the stars between college semesters. He also meets pre-Batman Bruce Wayne who tutors Clark in both detection and undercover work. At age 23 he settles in Metropolis and re-emerges as Superman.

Dude, you practically wrote a fanfic here! Interesting stuff, well thought. Seems you got all the basics covered. I like that twist on the Clark-Lex relationship, and the new characters in Smallville. Just out of curiosity: why the change in the Kent family?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

1). Superman/Clark Kent

I've always disliked the idea of Superman actually being a farmboy who happens to have godlike powers. That simply doesn't work for any incarnation with the exception of Byrne, maybe, whose super abilities emerged when he was an adult. And the Byrne reboot also happens to be my least favorite version of the character, and the one who irreversibly damaged the character.

Point being: when you're 8 years old and you're already able to lift your father's tractor, run faster than his car, are able to see your school from your house's porch while it's miles away, see through walls and hear people's problems, fears and joys from miles away involuntarily, you CAN'T simplify the characters as a farmboy. The perspective on life is COMPLETELY different. If YOU received your powers right now, it would completely change the way you view things. Now, imagine growing up with them, your whole life being different, more immersed, more all-encompassing.

In that sense, I'd have three "personalities":
a). Superman. He's the symbol, the inspiration, the one who will tackle all the odds, who will always hold the frontline. The one people will rally behind, the one they will trust to always do the right thing.
b). Clark Kent. He's the 'undercover' Superman. Not the bumbling idiot, but not the confident godlike being. He fights for truth, for justice AS ONE OF US. While many of us have the fantasy of what we'd do if we were Superman, well, Clark Kent represents Superman's projection of what he'd do if he were human. He'd fight for what's right with OUR OWN MEANS. Investigate. Expose. Push back against corruption.
c). Kal-El. This is what I'd call the "purest" it can be to his true personality. He's the one people who TRULY know him see. His parents. Bruce. Diana. He's Superman without being in the public eyes, without the pressure. When he wants space, he goes on the moon. On the bottom of the ocean's floor (I always LOVED this about Kurt Busiek's run). He's the one who displays all of the arrays of emotion - love, loneliness, hope, joy (more on these later).

2). Powers

I'd have him as the most powerful hero, and by far. I'd have it an editorial edict that characters simply can't be put up on Superman's expense. Too many times is everybody "I'm as powerful as Superman" or "I just took down Superman"; check out Cyborg's series to see him bragging about being able to liquefy his brain in 5 seconds flat with a frequency. Remember the times when Superman could race Flash to a standstill and it wouldn't be demeaning to NEITHER? Now, if Flash doesn't outclass him, it's simply bad writing according to many. His powers are virtually limitless. Able to move planets, able to run faster than light, able to travel galaxies, the whole pack.

Keeping with the Sci-fi aspect, Superman is a genius. He is the son of the smartest man on krypton, he has one of the most advanced technology at his disposal (Fortress of Solitude), he has some of the smartest villains in creation in his rogue gallary (Lex, Brainiac) - it's a no brainer.

3). Villains

Now, you may ask yourself, how will you challenge him when he's that powerful? Simple. Make the main powerhouse villains at least as impressive.
With that in mind, we have a few categories.

a). Villains who will take it to him physically. These are villains who are able to match him in a physical fight, and are more or less peers.
examples: Darkseid, Mongul, Doomsday, Ultraman, Zod

b). Villains who will take it to him intelectually. These are villains that operate on his level, putting him in great problems due to their ruthlessness
examples: Lex, Brainiac

c). Villains who straight up overpower him. These are characters that operate on a level that Superman can't simply overpower them
examples: Mxy

d). Tricky villains. These are villains that while not as physically imposing, or as intelectually formidable, would nevertheless be a thorn in his side.
examples: Toyman, Prankster, Parasite, Metallo

I'll continue to expand on the supporting cast, krypton/kryptonians etc. a bit later

Man, I've been clamoring for a lot of this stuff for years. We actually share quite a few things on how we'd tackle the character. I like the "enemy classification" you came up with. I think it's spot on. Same with Superman's power levels. He should be the most powerful, period. I, too, hate the "I'm as powerful as Superman" CRAP. Also, interesting take on the CK persona. It makes sense.

AND I also agree on those first two paragraphs. I mean, he's NOT human. I understand that with that comment people try to emphasize his human side, so he doesn't appear "unrelatable". But I could relate to Kal-El: he has feelings that can be tested. He feels joy, sorrow, anger, et cetera just like we do. And isn't that what "humanity" truly means?

[Vinsanity]

You have some interesting ideas here. Hadn't thought about a close friendship between Kal and John Stewart, guy Gardner and Visen, of all people. Also, Zatanna? Never thought of that one either. Where did that come from?

And yes, cosmic adventures FTW! Weird planets, dimensions, meeting (and/ or fighting) unknown alien species. I miss that from the comics.

?

I dunno. Why not Zatanna? She's fun, quirky and dramaless compared to any others. Also feel that John and Clark would have a lot in common. Guy would be that horndog friend that we all have and Vixen is just awesome.

Yeah we need more zany cosmic adventures. Just imagine Guy and Superman in a random planet full of blobs trying to help them against some wolf like villain with a mustache.

[Jim Kelly]

If I'm to be honest, I wouldn't mind changes in the costume, the powers, the job situation--if they just kept some of the past stories in continuity.

Obviously, comic book time being what it is, what happened in 1930 or 1970 has to be updated so it happened five or ten years ago--but I like to think that at any moment an old story from long ago can be referred back to or some old character can return--without a lot of reboots and retcons.

For example, in ADVENTURE COMICS No. 216 (September '55), Bill Finger wrote "The Wizard City." Then in ACTION COMICS No. 565 (March '85), Mort Todd wrote "The Wizard City Warrior." In the thirty years between these two stories, Wizard City was never even mentioned. But because of the open door policy toward continuity (pre-Crisis), Wizard City could just show up thirty years later.

And not just pre-Crisis was this possible. In THE POWER COMPANY (circa 2002), Kurt Busiek made use of Carl Andrew Bork, whose only other appearance before then was more than thirty years earlier in a Batman and Flash team-up, "But Bork Can Hurt You," in THE BRAVE AND THE BOLD No. 81 (December '68 - January '69).