WATCHMEN on HBO

[Amadeus Arkham]

Another brilliant episode but I’m sad because there’s only one more episode left then it’s over.

[Electricmastro]

Ya know, after seeing many arguments, and regardless of Damon Lindelof's best intentions and how political the original Watchmen was, I still feeling like saying that there's something about this show that really feels cynically out of place in regards to how it attempts to mesh racial elements and Watchmen elements together, and feels really poorly put together. I get it has high ratings, I get it was widespread acclaim, and again, I get how political. as well as social, the original Watchmen was, but honestly, that's how I feel. Some people here may hate on me for merely not liking/giving a positive post about an important show like this one that attempts to address all the racist, bad people, who should surely lose their jobs and be put in jail, and perhaps even receive the death penalty for their violent racist riots, but after much thinking and consideration of other peoples' opinions in the arguments they've constructed together, that's the opinion I've come to have.

[BatmanJones]

I think it's been freaking brilliant and it's more than exceeded my wildest hopes and dreams for a Watchmen followup of any sort. I'm sad there's only one more episode. I hope Lindelof stays on and they have a nice long run.

I wish Alan Moore would watch it. Not because I think he'd share my opinion, just because I'd love to hear what he had to say about it.

[Blind Wedjat]

That time paradox...absolutely loved this episode.

[obatalla]

Ya know, after seeing many arguments, and regardless of Damon Lindelof's best intentions and how political the original Watchmen was, I still feeling like saying that there's something about this show that really feels cynically out of place in regards to how it attempts to mesh racial elements and Watchmen elements together, and feels really poorly put together. I get it has high ratings, I get it was widespread acclaim, and again, I get how political. as well as social, the original Watchmen was, but honestly, that's how I feel. Some people here may hate on me for merely not liking/giving a positive post about an important show like this one that attempts to address all the racist, bad people, who should surely lose their jobs and be put in jail, and perhaps even receive the death penalty for their violent racist riots, but after much thinking and consideration of other peoples' opinions in the arguments they've constructed together, that's the opinion I've come to have.

"I would also remark that save for a smattering of non-white characters (and non-white creators) these books and these iconic characters are still very much white supremacist dreams of the master race. In fact, I think that a good argument can be made for D.W. Griffith’s Birth of a Nation as the first American superhero movie, and the point of origin for all those capes and masks." by Moore.

I think this story totally fits with what Moore himself said about the origins of comic characters and spins it on its head.

[j9ac9k]

"I would also remark that save for a smattering of non-white characters (and non-white creators) these books and these iconic characters are still very much white supremacist dreams of the master race. In fact, I think that a good argument can be made for D.W. Griffith’s Birth of a Nation as the first American superhero movie, and the point of origin for all those capes and masks." by Moore.

I think this story totally fits with what Moore himself said about the origins of comic characters and spins it on its head.

As good a storyteller as he was, we all know Moore's a bit of a tool. That's just one myopic opinion of superhero origins.

Speaking of the episode though, was this the only one so far with a post-credits scene?? I didn't know about it until I read an article about this ep.

[Amadeus Arkham]

Ya know, after seeing many arguments, and regardless of Damon Lindelof's best intentions and how political the original Watchmen was, I still feeling like saying that there's something about this show that really feels cynically out of place in regards to how it attempts to mesh racial elements and Watchmen elements together, and feels really poorly put together. I get it has high ratings, I get it was widespread acclaim, and again, I get how political. as well as social, the original Watchmen was, but honestly, that's how I feel. Some people here may hate on me for merely not liking/giving a positive post about an important show like this one that attempts to address all the racist, bad people, who should surely lose their jobs and be put in jail, and perhaps even receive the death penalty for their violent racist riots, but after much thinking and consideration of other peoples' opinions in the arguments they've constructed together, that's the opinion I've come to have.

I have to respectfully disagree that mixing up race elements with the Watchmen series is incompatible with the spirit of Watchmen. If anything, I’d argue there’s not many comic book source material that fits being used as a vehicle to commentate on race issues more than Watchmen. Lindelof has done that smart thing, and re-purposed the Watchmen story to address the racial problems which now seem to be getting more prevalent in the Trump era. In doing so, he’s once again replicated that tense and topically provocative feeling one would get reading the graphic novel for the first time during the Cold War in the 80’s. If the series isn’t for you that’s completely fine but I’m digging it a lot so far and may be a contender for the best comic book related show I have ever witnessed(yes I’ve seen all Daredevil and The Boys).

Lindelof has made Watchmen just as relevant as it was in the 80’s and I couldn’t be all the more happier with his take. Was the original Watchmen a treatise on race relations? No, but that’s fine. A creator can evolve and progress the original text of another creator beyond what the original author envisioned. Watchmen was always going to mean something different in 2019 than it was in 1986 and I feel that Damon has done a fabulous job updating the story to tackle different topics from the Cold War. I think it’s brilliant but to each their own.

[Jokerz79]

This Dr. Manhattan stuff is where the show has come off the rails for me. If I never read Watchmen it'd be great but I don't buy this version of Dr. Manhattan being the same man as Alan Moore's Dr. Manhattan even Snyder for all his movies faults nailed Manhattan.

[Amadeus Arkham]

This Dr. Manhattan stuff is where the show has come off the rails for me. If I never read Watchmen it'd be great but I don't buy this version of Dr. Manhattan being the same man as Alan Moore's Dr. Manhattan even Snyder for all his movies faults nailed Manhattan.

I actually thought this captured Doctor Manhattan better than Snyder did, imo but the issue I have is that I still don’t fully buy why Manhattan would fall in love with Angela? It’s not clear why? Is it because she reminds him of his former lovers: Laurie and Janey? And I don’t know why Jon still looks like Cal even though he’s returned to being Doctor Manhattan. There’s no way Manhattan always looked that, considering Angela explicitly pointed out Manhattan has taken on Cal’s appearance in blue form. In reality, I’m sure it’s more a convenient way to have Yahya play the role with just blue makeup without having a white actor come in and play the role physically but I find it odd and a bit distracting because he looks so different from the Manhattan in the graphic novel.

[80sbaby]

I actually thought this captured Doctor Manhattan better than Snyder did, imo but the issue I have is that I still don’t fully buy why Manhattan would fall in love with Angela? It’s not clear why? Is it because she reminds him of his former lovers: Laurie and Janey? And I don’t know why Jon still looks like Cal even though he’s returned to being Doctor Manhattan. There’s no way Manhattan always looked that, considering Angela explicitly pointed out Manhattan has taken on Cal’s appearance in blue form. In reality, I’m sure it’s more a convenient way to have Yahya play the role with just blue makeup without having a white actor come in and play the role physically but I find it odd and a bit distracting because he looks so different from the Manhattan in the graphic novel.

I would guess the change in appearance is due to being "Cal" for so long and so completely has altered DM's view of himself.

[Jokerz79]

I actually thought this captured Doctor Manhattan better than Snyder did, imo but the issue I have is that I still don’t fully buy why Manhattan would fall in love with Angela? It’s not clear why? Is it because she reminds him of his former lovers: Laurie and Janey? And I don’t know why Jon still looks like Cal even though he’s returned to being Doctor Manhattan. There’s no way Manhattan always looked that, considering Angela explicitly pointed out Manhattan has taken on Cal’s appearance in blue form. In reality, I’m sure it’s more a convenient way to have Yahya play the role with just blue makeup without having a white actor come in and play the role physically but I find it odd and a bit distracting because he looks so different from the Manhattan in the graphic novel.

His look didn't bother me it's both in the film and graphic novel Dr. Manhattan was detached from humanity and this Manhattan doesn't feel that way to me.

Until the Manhattan reveal I was loving this show now I'm thinking yeah somethings shouldn't be touched.

[Electricmastro]

"I would also remark that save for a smattering of non-white characters (and non-white creators) these books and these iconic characters are still very much white supremacist dreams of the master race. In fact, I think that a good argument can be made for D.W. Griffith’s Birth of a Nation as the first American superhero movie, and the point of origin for all those capes and masks." by Moore.

I think this story totally fits with what Moore himself said about the origins of comic characters and spins it on its head.

As good a storyteller as he was, we all know Moore's a bit of a tool. That's just one myopic opinion of superhero origins.

Yep, next thing you know, Moore might be comparing superheroes and bank robbers because they both wear shoes. The quote repeated by obatalla is indeed myopic, and has quite a bit of dissonance involved for that matter.

Was the original Watchmen a treatise on race relations? No, but that’s fine. A creator can evolve and progress the original text of another creator beyond what the original author envisioned. Watchmen was always going to mean something different in 2019 than it was in 1986 and I feel that Damon has done a fabulous job updating the story to tackle different topics from the Cold War. I think it’s brilliant but to each their own.

I guess part of me tends not to be phased by media about race unless I feel it’s really being academically analyzed, specifically documentaries, biographies, or just pieces in general that actively encourage critical analysis upfront and contemplating possible solutions to the problem, which in a way I suppose I just don’t get the same effect from media such as this which, at the end of the day, is meant to financially capitalize off ultimately fictional entertainment through a familiar name, widely discussed social topics, relevant as they’re called, and possibly shock value as well.

That may sound petty and cynical, but then again, to each their own in regards to ways one desires to start a conversation about race. People are of course free to praise this show as much as they want and praise the creators for their attempts at touching on real world issues, but at least to me, scholarly articles, books, documentaries, and the communication and research that involves solid evidence and suggestion of possible solutions in general will always triumph and take importance over what’s ultimately considerably-fictionalized and sensationalized dystopian entertainment shows like Watchmen. So that all said, I very much look forward to all the people that watched the show taking to time to academically research more about race relations, as opposed simply conclude that Watchmen is all need to know about race relations and not doing outside research at all, since I suppose it takes a big motivating factor to motivate someone into doing research in the first place.

[obatalla]

Yep, next thing you know, Moore might be comparing superheroes and bank robbers because they both wear shoes. The quote repeated by obatalla is indeed myopic, and has quite a bit of dissonance involved for that matter.



I guess part of me tends not to be phased by media about race unless I feel it’s really being academically analyzed, specifically documentaries, biographies, or just pieces in general that actively encourage critical analysis upfront and contemplating possible solutions to the problem, which in a way I suppose I just don’t get the same effect from media such as this which, at the end of the day, is meant to financially capitalize off ultimately fictional entertainment through a familiar name, widely discussed social topics, relevant as they’re called, and possibly shock value as well.

That may sound petty and cynical, but then again, to each their own in regards to ways one desires to start a conversation about race. People are of course free to praise this show as much as they want and praise the creators for their attempts at touching on real world issues, but at least to me, scholarly articles, books, documentaries, and the communication and research that involves solid evidence and suggestion of possible solutions in general will always triumph and take importance over what’s ultimately considerably-fictionalized and sensationalized dystopian entertainment shows like Watchmen. So that all said, I very much look forward to all the people that watched the show taking to time to academically research more about race relations, as opposed simply conclude that Watchmen is all need to know about race relations and not doing outside research at all, since I suppose it takes a big motivating factor to motivate someone into doing research in the first place.

Were you asking for people to research about the history of nuclear conflict when the comics were out? I'd say no.

[Quasar's Bands]

Another brilliant episode but I’m sad because there’s only one more episode left then it’s over.

I completely agree. This series has been so much better than I anticipated. After the first episode, I even wondered aloud if it would keep my interest. Boy, has it. It's also fascinating how many of my educated, professional friends are commenting on how much they like the music, the dialogue, the acting, the timing, the mystery, and the "artsy" manner in which they've been able to address racism, politics, and raw human emotions.

Watchmen was a great miniseries back in its day, and still is a fun read. However, it has been replicated so many times in different ways, it's now a little dated. This show seems to take all the great elements of the old story and use them to address more timely and relevant issues in the modern day - racism, politics and poverty. Episode 6, in particular, stands out to me as a great lesson on racism in the 20th century and it's lasting influence in today's politics.

As for Dr. Manhattan - it seems some critics have a hard time imagining that a man-turned-God could find himself emotionally lacking and desire more - much like the referenced Zeus in episode 8. His longing was clearly matched by Angela's loneliness - and his time as "Cal" clearly had an impact on his current person - both externally and internally. I loved this most recent episode - it also made me realize that Ozymandias is a prisoner of his own making, which was a big surprise to me at least.

Overall, I am loving this series more than anything else on television and will miss it after the last episode airs next week!

[80sbaby]

I can certainly understand Manhattan's desire to reconnect with humanity after his experiment failed BUT I would think it'd take longer than 20-30 years for him to feel that way.