Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2022

[jwatson]

I mean, Duggan had Rogue pretty much refer to Jean's telekinesis as Omega Level—she certainly wasn't using her telepathy—and Jean herself define her telekinesis as such by revealing "No object is too heavy or too big to lift nor too small to grasp," concluding, "You just have to feel it."



ScreenRant even went on a rant about how they've reclassified Jean as an Omega Level Telekinetic, lol.

Source: https://screenrant.com/xmen-jean-gre...psychic-omega/



I completely agree with everything here.



Quoted for truth. In an impulsive moment of weakness—we're ALL prone to this when championing and defending our favorite characters—I actually tweeted Ewing, who is not very active on Twitter, the aforementioned back cover, along with this comment:



We'll see if he responds, though I doubt he will.

Bloop!





Very good points.



I don't think Ororo's statement is weird for the reasons I and others have already listed. Of course, it took me aback for a few moments, but then I realized, this is Ororo's point of view, one that she qualifies with "perhaps" and doesn't claim to be the absolute truth. It is not a narrative declaration. In either case, your statement regarding Jean's feats and Xavier's reactions instantly brought to mind this scene in which he notes that Jean transferring her psyche into Emma's body (without the help of a machine or any other augmentation) is "something Jean has never been able to do before!" I can't recall if Xavier has accomplished this feat, though he very well have:





This would be an interesting in-story reason.



Exactly.

I'm still trying to figure the omega level psychic thing out. Am i missing something in how i read it. I read it as Rogue touched Jean and got all her powers and thus there were two omegas. But i didn't get the impression that it was implying her telekinesis was omega level unless i missed a line or something. This has been lightly bothering me for a bit because i feel like i am missing something. the screen rant article makes it even more confusing. It seems like an interpretation but i don't see why it was read that way.

Just to expound a bit maybe i focused too much on Rogue in the scene? what i got from it was duggan saying while synch may be on his way to be omega in his own powers rogue with a simple touch can operate at the level of an omega despite not being one. So though she may not be one he answered the question if she wanted she could be any one of them.

[Devaishwarya]

Same here.
I read it as Rogue borrowing the powers of an OL...not that the TK she borrowed was OL (the distinction is quite silly, when you think too hard on it)
That said, with Hickman gone...the writers may be slowly and quietly rethinking the details of the OL list...which would make sense to do considering the changes that have happened since X-Men 01. (Why shouldn't Forge be an OL technopath, when he is only limited by his imagination? Franklyn is no longer a mutant, QQ gets killed every other issue...his OL card should be revoked indefinitely)

[jwatson]

Same here.
I read it as Rogue borrowing the powers of an OL...not that the TK she borrowed was OL (the distinction is quite silly, when you think too hard on it)
That said, with Hickman gone...the writers may be slowly and quietly rethinking the details of the OL list...which would make sense to do considering the changes that have happened since X-Men 01. (Why shouldn't Forge be an OL technopath, when he is only limited by his imagination? Franklyn is no longer a mutant, QQ gets killed every other issue...his OL card should be revoked indefinitely)

Yeah, i think an overhaul is coming to the list too. I mean it has been 3 years i believe so if every three years two or three are added or some revised it's not really that big of a deal. Especially since being reborn is filling in some power gaps for mutants and making them stronger.

[Mercury]

I'm still trying to figure the omega level psychic thing out. Am i missing something in how i read it. I read it as Rogue touched Jean and got all her powers and thus there were two omegas. But i didn't get the impression that it was implying her telekinesis was omega level unless i missed a line or something. This has been lightly bothering me for a bit because i feel like i am missing something. the screen rant article makes it even more confusing. It seems like an interpretation but i don't see why it was read that way.

I suppose Rogue could have been referring to Jean's overall Omega Level status, but why would she say "two Omegas are better than one" when she's not using Jean's Omega Level Telepathy but only her Telekinesis? In addition, Jean practically says she has no telekinetic limits when she reveals, "No object is too big or heavy to lift nor too small to grasp." Moreover, during the current era, we've seen her do the following: Telekinetically 1) atomize telefloronics, 2) hurl a skyscraper-sized space station at escape velocity from Mars (i.e., at ~11,220 miles per hour), and now 3) grasp and extract anywhere from hundreds of thousands to hundreds of millions of microscopic fungal spores. Lastly, Jean has always been categorized as Omega Level in both telepathy and telekinesis. (You'll note one of the panels below was written by Duggan and also implies the same thing...)



Also, when I sent Duggan this message, he liked it. Granted, he may have just been humoring me, but based on his interactions with me and others, he doesn't seem like the type to humor anyone. He has no problem not liking nor responding to tweets and messages and definitely has no problem telling people, "Eh, you're wrong. That wasn't my intention," or, "Actually, I disagree with you" so...



To another point, I think you misread Jean's mention in X-Force. The Cuckoos—not that they like Jean or anything—were responding to the "psychic blast" that Domino and Sage asked her to send out.

[Devaishwarya]

Exactatiously...as with Synch. Who should definitely be on that list.

[Mercury]

To the rest of the thread, if Xavier is indeed considered "the most powerful telepath in the universe," as per Ororo's allusion, Jean is still undoubtedly the most powerful telepath on the planet, lol.

Come on, people, the writers are having fun, our girl is in a great place, and the flagship titles—i.e., X-Men, X-Men: Red, and Immortal X-Men—are on fire! Let's enjoy and have fun with this!

[jwatson]

I suppose Rogue could have been referring to Jean's overall Omega Level status, but why would she say "two Omegas are better than one" when she's not using Jean's Omega Level Telepathy but only her Telekinesis? In addition, Jean practically says she has no telekinetic limits when she reveals, "No object is too big or heavy to lift nor too small to grasp." Moreover, during the current era, we've seen her do the following: Telekinetically 1) atomize telefloronics, 2) hurl a skyscraper-sized space station at escape velocity from Mars (i.e., at ~11,220 miles per hour), and now 3) grasp and extract anywhere from hundreds of thousands to hundreds of millions of microscopic fungal spores. Lastly, Jean has always been categorized as Omega Level in both telepathy and telekinesis. (You'll note one of the panels below was written by Duggan and also implies the same thing...)



Also, when I sent Duggan this message, he liked it. Granted, he may have just been humoring me, but based on his interactions with me and others, he doesn't seem like the type to humor anyone. He has no problem not liking nor responding to tweets and messages and definitely has no problem telling people, "Eh, you're wrong. That wasn't my intention," or, "Actually, I disagree with you" so...



To another point, I think you misread Jean's mention in X-Force. The Cuckoos—not that they like Jean or anything—were responding to the "psychic blast" that Domino and Sage asked her to send out.

The two omegas are better than one was imo to give Rogue the feat of being able to drain powers and use them at an omega level which i remember some were going on and on about so i felt it was to address that. It never crossed my mind reading it it had to do with tK even now that seems like a reach especiall since most wouldn't know what Duggan is liking or not. Maybe at some point he will just flat out say it but i'm just not seeing that was the intent when Exodus teleported all of Arrako using his TK so an item to big or small means she can lift things of any size but it doesn't speak to the many forms and ways tk can potentially be used.

And i can give the Cuckoos things the way i read it they were responding and one of them mentioned Jean which then the other three went 90s cartoon. "jean? Jean. JEAN!" at least that's how my mind read it which was followed up by a basic insult but if i'm honest like i said in the storm thread the dialogue was so bad you can basically call what i did browsing.

[johnnysv75]

Naw, not at all. Sorry, I have to disagree.

Jean has tapped into her unlimitedness and is indeed Omega in every sense. Jean is well above Xavier and Jean is very experienced herself, knowing what Xavier knows plus all of the things she taught herself.

Storm was wrong.

I feel quite the opposite. Jean hasn’t shown us half of what she can do. I think her potential is so vast and amazing that we cannot grasp what she one day will be able to do. Xavier’s a firecracker and she’s an atom bomb. But at the moment, he is arguably more powerful than her. The difference is that he has reached his potential whereas her potential is unlimited.

[PyroFN]

I am not sure what the most powerful telepath even means. Pretty much all the gods and powerful sorcerers have telepathic powers, as well as omega mutants.

Power and skill unrivaled. The telepath game is tense when you compare them and trust me. Given the group I normally talk with about making psychic RT’s, the nuances make it very clear who the top dogs are if you ignore gods and cosmic beings. There always gonna be some disagreement and personal opinion, but there are clear indications of who holds the title on the planet for three of the most powerful psychics on the planet on a regular basis.

All the Eternals have telepathic powers, and most can easily kill Charles because they are more than powerful enough to defend against his psychic attacks while he can't defend against their PHYSICAL attacks.

No. That is not even remotely correct. Barring maybe whoever is in the place of the Prime Eternal, the one person who has any shot at defending against a psychic attack by Charles through pure feats is Sersi. And that is based purely on a fight against Exodus that she lost to, a telepath who is considered weaker than Charles by feats as well.

In my eyes, Sersi ranks lower than Teen Jean of all people. Not adult Jean, Teen Jean, Quentin Quire, and the 3-in-1 Stepford Cuckoo’s, telepaths Emma Frost could defeat with barely any trouble. Yet, Sersi is the best the Eternals have.

I mean Moondragon has blasted Charles into a coma with just a psychic attack. Emma wormed her way through his mind. Mastermind once put Charles in a coma. Nate Grey once pulled his astral body off the astral plane. He has lost to the Shadow King before. Even in purely psychic matters, he is not all powerful.

1) She had the Mind Gem amping her.

2) Charles was trying tk be amicable and she caught him off-guard with a random outburst.

3) Emma Frost is regularly considered one of the most powerful psychics on the planet and the most skilled one by me. It is not a dig on Charles for Emma of all people to find a way in his head and develop a trap he can’t escape from. It’s more a dig for him to not think about the fact that she would be around in Scott’s head when he tried to lure Scott with a mental suggestion.

4) I don’t think Mastermind did. I think that was a device he used, but I can’t remember specifics. I would need to go back and reread the issue. Needless to say, co side ring Mastermind has dueled both Emma Frost and Xavier in the past on the Astral Plane, it’s still not a knock to Xavier. He is a very underrated psychic.

5) Nate Grey was characterized as the most powerful back then and it showed. His powers caused psychic ripples across the astral plane as a side-effect of any fight he was in. He was able psychically absorb a large group of telepaths on the Astral Plane to have the power to recreate his body. Nate Grey is probably the one character one could argue for a placing above Charles or Jean, we’re it not for the fact that the guy is a completely reckless kid self-taught because of his impulsivity. That inexperience is his downfall.

6) He has lost to Shadow King by prep. Not in a legit fight.

Charles is not all-powerful, but he is among the best in his field, which is why Jean is always in contention with Charles over the title. The importance to Jean Grey fans is to show character growth that Jean was supposed to get numerous times as Phoenix. That in turn what makes it a big deal to them. Some of us, like me, don’t entirely care that much, but it’s understandable why others would.

Storm of course can't go into all that because she was basically trash talking to the Galactic COUNCIL. That they think that Xavier and perhaps Xandra (she just got resurrected) are the most powerful telepaths is more important than if it is really true or not. It completely would have made no sense for Storm to declare Jean the most powerful telepath, because even if it is true there is the context of the situation.

You are right in that respect. It’s still pretty unnecessary for Storm to say that when she could have easily had said, “Charles Xavier is well-famed for the power he possesses among the Empire” or “Charles Xavier is not like your telepaths. His power goes far beyond what you normally witness” and could have gotten that same effect, especially since she wasn’t mincing words or worrying about hurt feelings in the slightest in that meeting.

So, I find it hard to believe Storm (and by extension Ewing) did not truly believe what they just said. Without that conviction, it would fall flat.

Oh, and as far as fandoms go, it's not always about your favorite character. Get over it. LOL

Spicy.

[Omega_DCD]

I'm long on work and short on time but two things...I'm not "shouting on the internet", nor was I saying that Storm should awkwardly interject Jean during that scene. Jean needn't be mentioned at all. My mentioning Jean was contextual. I've purchased every issue of X-Men Red day-1 and obviously I'm not buying it as a "Jean book". I'm saying that Jean was established as an Omega Level Mutant more than 20 years ago...those superlatives regarding Xavier were still ok because the term was based on potential. Fast forward and now Hickman tweaked the list and most of the Omegas have been repeatedly referred to...their biggest joint venture, teraforming Mars and setting up a society and orbital base. Xavier wasn't a direct part of that.

All I've said is that for me, describing Xavier's power that way is regressive for this era

[PyroFN]

I stopped reading X-Force because Jean left and finally stopped coming back lol

She is there in spirit. Domino instructs Sage to tell Jean to create an island wide psychic blast that orders every Krakoan to hide. Jean (off-screen and speaking through comm-links) tells Sage she will add an undertone of fear to the point of nausea to ensure they don’t ignore the warning.

[PyroFN]

Does anyone here read x-force, Quentin tk was green lantern level this issue also something eventful happens….

I did. I am more interested in the fact that he straightened Wolverine’s body out, adamantium bones includes. Cerebrax using Polaris’ powers bent Logan to his metal bones like a pretzel and Quentin waltzes in with his non-Omega tk and fixes the damage casually. It’s very surreal.

[Mercury]

The two omegas are better than one was imo to give Rogue the feat of being able to drain powers and use them at an omega level. It never crossed my mind reading it it had to do with tK even now that seems like a reach

Hmmm... To me, that seems "like [the] reach," especially since Rogue makes it a point of following her "two Omegas are better than one" comment by saying, "Damn, Jean. I didn't know your TK could grab something as small as spores," which underscores two things: Rogue 1) is not augmenting Jean's telekinesis and 2) is referring to Jean's telekinesis specifically when she says "two Omegas are better than one."

especiall since most wouldn't know what Duggan is liking or not.

My posting that screenshot of Duggan's like has nothing to do with anyone else being aware of the private messages he likes or doesn't like and everything to do with him, in a sense, cosigning my assertion. Also, in the past, I've tweeted him panels showing that she's been classified as Omega Level in both her power classifications for years, some of which he's liked, which only reinforces my assumption that his liking my DM indicates that he was agreeing with my interpretation. However, I may very well be wrong, though I base my assumption on his overall behavior on Twitter.

Maybe at some point he will just flat out say it but i'm just not seeing that was the intent when Exodus teleported all of Arrako using his TK so an item to big or small means she can lift things of any size but it doesn't speak to the many forms and ways tk can potentially be used.

Frankly, I can assume that Jean helped Exodus teleport that island by contributing some of her telekinetic prowess, in addition to her telepathy, as she does with Lactuca, to Exodus' efforts. I mean, Planet-Size X-Men doesn't even specify that Exodus is teleporting the island. In fact, he says "If we're just a tiny bit off, we'll blow right through the planet or worse." For that matter, Magneto also says "we're," so he may have been contributing his magnetism and helping with the transportation of Arrako, too. It's all left open for interpretation.



Lastly, regarding this matter, aside from Jean having a long history of being categorized as both an Omega Level Telepath and Omega Level Telekinetic, it has recently been implied that "the resurrection protocols are increasing the previous baseline powers" and that, as a result, "we may be witnessing the emergence of a new Omega in Synch." If it turns out to be true that the resurrection protocols are indeed "increasing previous baseline powers," then that could apply to all mutants who have undergone said protocols. EDIT: Now that I think of it, this could include Xavier! Food for thought.

After all, Jean has undergone the protocols 2-3 times and, coupled with the fact that she, as already noted, was previously categorized as an Omega Level Telekinetic, it could stand to reason that her TK has also increased since Hickman's Omega Level list was generated. Remember, Hickman's list states that "only one [power] is normally of Omega level," not that it is impossible for two of a single mutant's powers to be of Omega level. And, as has been proven time and again, Jean is anything but normal, lol. We'll see where this goes.

And i can give the Cuckoos things the way i read it they were responding and one of them mentioned Jean which then the other three went 90s cartoon. "jean? Jean. JEAN!" at least that's how my mind read it which was followed up by a basic insult but if i'm honest like i said in the storm thread the dialogue was so bad you can basically call what i did browsing.

Yeah, the issue was not the greatest. But Jean clearly states, "Even if some people want to ignore me, most will feel scared, sick." And, indeed, after the four Cuckoos wince and scream her name, one of them gets sick.

[Daedra]

I did. I am more interested in the fact that he straightened Wolverine’s body out, adamantium bones includes. Cerebrax using Polaris’ powers bent Logan to his metal bones like a pretzel and Quentin waltzes in with his non-Omega tk and fixes the damage casually. It’s very surreal.

Finally someone noticed, he put wolverine back in shape and created complex energy constructs including a tank, Quentin was really operating on another level, his tk was on a rampage

[Mercury]

Alls I knows is, this is becoming more a reality every day...

::writhes on the floor in ecstasy::