How much has the X-Men as a reflection of real life minorities changed overtime?

[Zelena]

It being the case or not, it's that sort of foundation that later X-Men stories have to build themselves on top of since, of course, Stan and Jack built the foundation after being inspired by something that came before it, like with the Übermenschen you were talking about. It's definitely a complex subject matter that has probably been oversimplified by later writers more than it probably deserves, even on the grounds of being a prejudice-addressing superhero book.

I think that the first thing that came in Stan and Jack's minds is that it's nice to draw people with cool super-powers, it looks good on paper. I remember reading that they didn't want to be bothered with the origins of their super-heroes, so they say they were born like that. These creatures, born different, shouldn't they suffer from the discrimination of the rest of the population? Sounds logical… It has been present from the start but not present all of the time and it has been fluctuating depending on the author and the stories he wanted to tell. X-men is a material, the discrimination subject can be picked but eventually, it's between an author and his obsessions (like Hickman only keeps some aspects of the X-men and leaves others). I haven't read all the X-men comics but the ones I read, this subject hadn't been that compulsive like now.
I'm sure that if today's authors had more imagination (or freedom), they could come with others stories, other subjects to explore. The way they "shout at the top of their lungs" all the time is quite boring and is the path to a atmosphere that is poisonous and please only those who like to see extreme solutions implemented in a world that can sustain them since it's only imaginary and it has no painful consequences.

[Londo Bellian]

The way they "shout at the top of their lungs" all the time is quite boring and is the path to a atmosphere that is poisonous and please only those who like to see extreme solutions implemented in a world that can sustain them since it's only imaginary and it has no painful consequences.

"OOOOOOHHH!" ~ Epic Rap Battles of History

[Zelena]

"OOOOOOHHH!" ~ Epic Rap Battles of History

I'm sure the comment is very insightful, still, since I didn't catch it, I'm interested by the expanded version.

[Londo Bellian]

Sorry if that was vague. It was my voice of agreement to your sentiment about ultra-escalating conflict problems and solutions in the comic-book setting because it's just a fictional construct and all. The Epic Rap Battles of History web series tend to have the "Ooooohhh!" exclamation follow when one of the rappers in the episode lands an epic diss.

"Vlad: Get beat by Count Dracula? You're smoking crackula! I dunk on your whackula raps, like I'm Shaqula! *OOOOOOHHH!*" ~ Count Dracula vs. Vlad the Impaler

[Zelena]

Sorry if that was vague. It was my voice of agreement to your sentiment about ultra-escalating conflict problems and solutions in the comic-book setting because it's just a fictional construct and all. The Epic Rap Battles of History web series tend to have the "Ooooohhh!" exclamation follow when one of the rappers in the episode lands an epic diss.

Thanks, understood.

[davetvs]

People complaining that they dont want theXMen as a metaphor for minorities are a good metaphor for people who don't want to read about minorities. So good job, XBooks.

/thread

100101

[The Quiet Councilor]

/thread

100101

Nope. Some of us just see the metaphor as an excuse for writers to tell stories about minorities while using mostly straight, mostly white, mostly male, and all cis characters to do it. If you’re gonna capitalize on the experiences of the oppressed, at least have the awareness to be inclusive about it.

The metaphor should be commentary on intersectionality.

[hulkling]

Nope. Some of us just see the metaphor as an excuse for writers to tell stories about minorities while using mostly straight, mostly white, mostly male, and all cis characters to do it. If you’re gonna capitalize on the experiences of the oppressed, at least have the awareness to be inclusive about it.

The metaphor should be commentary on intersectionality.

Agree the metaphor was fine but we are not in the 80s anymore. If you want to tell stories about oppression and homophobia them use gay characters and real minorities. The dissonance of the mutants between “ we are superior species “ and “ we are poor oppressed people” drags things down

[Triniking1234]

Sounds more like the fanbase's fault rather than the writers.

[Huntsman Spider]

Sounds more like the fanbase's fault rather than the writers.

Doesn't have to be one or the other. There's plenty of blame to go around --- the writers for lacking courage or vision and certain virulent parts of the fandom for freaking out every time an actual minority or LGBT+ character gets or achieves any sort of real prominence in a mainstream superhero comic.

[skyvolt2000]

Sounds more like the fanbase's fault rather than the writers.

It boils down to NO ONE wants to tell the story using actually POC, LGBTQ and women. Because someone-mainly those who would NEVER EVER buy or pirate the book in question-going off in some rage.

I don't want to hear about mutant oppression-mutants have POWERS. So yeah that fear is justified. They are no different than the Hulk, Thor, Inhumans, Eternals or anyone else with powers.

Trayvon Martin was NOT a mutant. Yet according to some he was a threat to AMERICA. A boy who wanted to be an airline pilot.
Botham Jean was NOT a mutant. Yet because he smoked weed and was in HIS house-he deserved to die.
John Boyega is not a mutant. Yet folks were ready to turn theaters into shooting galleries because he held a lightsabre.
Dc Comics did NOT shutdown message boards over mutants. They did it because bigots went HAM on Jason Rusch-Firestorm.
Magdalene Visaggio is not a mutant. Yet got HOUNDED for being transgender.

Yet trying to have these conversations in comics-gets cat calls of "color over character", "shoving politics" and other nonsense. But toss MUTANT in there and showcase pretty white folks-it's all good.

We can't even have them as leads without someone taking issues.

Mutant fear is justified. Being LGBTQ or a POC should not.

[Zelena]

It boils down to NO ONE wants to tell the story using actually POC, LGBTQ and women. Because someone-mainly those who would NEVER EVER buy or pirate the book in question-going off in some rage.

I don't want to hear about mutant oppression-mutants have POWERS. So yeah that fear is justified. They are no different than the Hulk, Thor, Inhumans, Eternals or anyone else with powers.

Trayvon Martin was NOT a mutant. Yet according to some he was a threat to AMERICA. A boy who wanted to be an airline pilot.
Botham Jean was NOT a mutant. Yet because he smoked weed and was in HIS house-he deserved to die.
John Boyega is not a mutant. Yet folks were ready to turn theaters into shooting galleries because he held a lightsabre.
Dc Comics did NOT shutdown message boards over mutants. They did it because bigots went HAM on Jason Rusch-Firestorm.
Magdalene Visaggio is not a mutant. Yet got HOUNDED for being transgender.

Yet trying to have these conversations in comics-gets cat calls of "color over character", "shoving politics" and other nonsense. But toss MUTANT in there and showcase pretty white folks-it's all good.

We can't even have them as leads without someone taking issues.

Mutant fear is justified. Being LGBTQ or a POC should not.

For LGBTQ, the lack of representation has always been there but "POC"… it seems to me they were more prominent Black characters in the past in the Marvel Universe: Black Panther, Falcon… Yes, probably, the problem is the fanbase, narrower…

[Huntsman Spider]

For LGBTQ, the lack of representation has always been there but "POC"… it seems to me they were more prominent Black characters in the past in the Marvel Universe: Black Panther, Falcon… Yes, probably, the problem is the fanbase, narrower…

And ironically, there's more, if not necessarily better, POC representation within the Marvel Universe outside the X-Men comics/franchise, despite X-Men being the predominant allegory for oppression of various minorities by a majority group. That may not necessarily be an accident or coincidence, as I'll cop to the hypocrisy of a franchise that mines the ongoing marginalization, dehumanization, and brutalization of minorities for storytelling material while nonetheless centering said material around mostly straight, white, and conventionally attractive individuals that happen to be superpowered in a world that fears the superpowered.

[pkingdom]

How many POC X-men are there, exactly? There's Storm, or course. Monet, Thunderbird (may he rest in pieces), Daken (though he's villain, antihero at best), Shinobi....

Or should we not count the villains, since they're non-white-ness is a bit problematic when the heroes are predominately white?

[spirit2011]

How many POC X-men are there, exactly? There's Storm, or course. Monet, Thunderbird (may he rest in pieces), Daken (though he's villain, antihero at best), Shinobi....

Or should we not count the villains, since they're non-white-ness is a bit problematic when the heroes are predominately white?

I guess everyone is a hero now...

There is Bishop, Roberto, Dani, Shan, Armor, Sunfire, Warpath, Bling, threenody, Forge. Monet

Very few are ocnstatly well written on X-men comics