Controversial Superman Opinions

[Jim Kelly]

I'm sure when Joe Shuster first drew his Superman, he thought his was rather muscular. And when Curt Swan drew his Superman, I'm sure he thought he had made him a bit bigger than was realistic.

If you ask me, Superman should be in that ballpark. But comics have gone crazy with over-proportioned men--so Swan's Superman that should look like a really imposing figure seems like a normal guy by comparison. And even the Dan Jurgens/JL Garcia Lopez/Neal Adams Superman with over the top heroic proportions now seems minmally proportioned.

Superman shouldn't really have to look so muscle-bound.

[TheCape]

Probably started in the mid 90s and became more obvious in the 2000s

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[Superlad93]

Im somewhere between you two in terms of Superman's build, I think.

I dont think he needs to look like a body builder but he should be big. All-Star was close to hitting it for me, but he was a little too wide in the middle and could have used a *little* more definition in the shoulders and arms. A few inches trimmed off his waist and a little more linework on the muscles would have been just right.

Even if you discount his childhood of hard work on the farm, he gets into fights with people who can hurt or kill him all the time. That means he pushes the limits of his muscles and that builds more muscle. He's going to look rugged as f**k.

The guy should be physically imposing. He should be a 6'4" wall of beef you dont want to piss off; thick of neck,wide of shoulders, and arms like tree trunks, but he shouldn't look like a gym bunny.

That said, I think the All-Star Clark Kent was (visually) perfect.

I think in All Star and Secret Identity he was perfect because he looked as if he gained his size by way of just doing his thing overtime as opposed to intensive training like Bruce. Clark isn't super cut up because you get defining cuts like that through very specific training, and very specific dieting. For example, if you wanted to see the split in your biceps and tris then you'd need to perform specific isolation movements to achieve the aesthetic. That means going to the gym and meticulously working on the details. Clark doesn't do that.

Clark's muscles might possibly come more from what is known as compound movements. These are movements that recruit a whole bunch of muscle groups rather than just few or one. These are your dead lifts, squats, and bench presses. This is a bit more inline with what Clark would've been doing on the farm as a kid, and on his adventures. But keep in mind that you have to factor in that his strength isn't at all dependent on his muscles. His actual muscles probably only receive so much of the residual effects of his heavy lifting (we also have to keep in mind that his healing factor would greatly change how his muscle growth worked) In my opinion, his muscles would be decently sized, but not extremely defined because of the lack of iso movements (I wonder how much cardio flying gets you?). He'd have abs, but they wouldn't be the cut up 8 pack Bruce sports, imo.

One could say something about the Kryptonian metabolism giving him his cuts naturally, but this is pretty flawed (the whole thing is flawed so who cares either way), honestly. Not every Kryptonian looks like a perfect supermodel. Kara is usually depicted as having the build of an average high school kid who plays sports. If her metabolism is so perfect, and she gets instant muscles like her cousin, then why doesn't she look it? She looks nothing like the high end female body she should have in comparison to what we expect of Clark.

But in the end this is all based purely of taste, and nothing. I won't act like what I've presented here is objectively correct. Superman has any muscle at all because they are aesthetically pleasing, and for the reader it mentally reinforces the idea that he's physically strong/dominant even if the muscle's size factors into literally zero of his strength feats. I just simply don't think it's required to the degree that we often see. For me, it's in the same category as all female superheroes have perfect perorations or comically large/shaped breast. I don't think every hero NEEDS to look like that. I'm not hung up on it or anything (far from it, if I'm honest); I just have something else that I personally wouldn't mind seeing regularly. That's all.

[Superlad93]

Probably started in the mid 90s and became more obvious in the 2000s

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Ugh...Ed Mcguinness' Superman.

[TheCape]

Ugh...Ed Mcguinness' Superman.

Lots of people feels the same way, but at least SuperFabio looks good.

[Sacred Knight]

Ugh...Ed Mcguinness' Superman.

Yeah...never did anything for me either. I totally appreciate his style, and he's super talented, I just never thought it was a good fit for Superman.

[Superlad93]

Yeah...never did anything for me either. I totally appreciate his style, and he's super talented, I just never thought it was a good fit for Superman.

He draws a nice lookin Hulk, though.

[Sacred Knight]

He was basically born to draw The Hulk, indeed.

[The World]

I think in All Star and Secret Identity he was perfect because he looked as if he gained his size by way of just doing his thing overtime as opposed to intensive training like Bruce. Clark isn't super cut up because you get defining cuts like that through very specific training, and very specific dieting. For example, if you wanted to see the split in your biceps and tris then you'd need to perform specific isolation movements to achieve the aesthetic. That means going to the gym and meticulously working on the details. Clark doesn't do that.

Clark's muscles might possibly come more from what is known as compound movements. These are movements that recruit a whole bunch of muscle groups rather than just few or one. These are your dead lifts, squats, and bench presses. This is a bit more inline with what Clark would've been doing on the farm as a kid, and on his adventures. But keep in mind that you have to factor in that his strength isn't at all dependent on his muscles. His actual muscles probably only receive so much of the residual effects of his heavy lifting (we also have to keep in mind that his healing factor would greatly change how his muscle growth worked) In my opinion, his muscles would be decently sized, but not extremely defined because of the lack of iso movements (I wonder how much cardio flying gets you?). He'd have abs, but they wouldn't be the cut up 8 pack Bruce sports, imo.

One could say something about the Kryptonian metabolism giving him his cuts naturally, but this is pretty flawed (the whole thing is flawed so who cares either way), honestly. Not every Kryptonian looks like a perfect supermodel. Kara is usually depicted as having the build of an average high school kid who plays sports. If her metabolism is so perfect, and she gets instant muscles like her cousin, then why doesn't she look it? She looks nothing like the high end female body she should have in comparison to what we expect of Clark.

But in the end this is all based purely of taste, and nothing. I won't act like what I've presented here is objectively correct. Superman has any muscle at all because they are aesthetically pleasing, and for the reader it mentally reinforces the idea that he's physically strong/dominant even if the muscle's size factors into literally zero of his strength feats. I just simply don't think it's required to the degree that we often see. For me, it's in the same category as all female superheroes have perfect perorations or comically large/shaped breast. I don't think every hero NEEDS to look like that. I'm not hung up on it or anything (far from it, if I'm honest); I just have something else that I personally wouldn't mind seeing regularly. That's all.

Other than Byrne era Superman usually has quite a bit of Superstrength and healing early on, I'm not sure if a concept factoring around tissue breakdown and rebuilding would do much to him. Likewise if his body is capable to breaking down even the most advanced earth poisons I don't know what things like fatty foods would be able to do to him.

Though I remember someone saying that if the earth had %20 more oxygen we would have evolved to be taller and healthier but the insects would evolve to be huge as well. I'd probably say Supes larger frame is due to his own evolutionary process and growing up in an environment foreign to it.

Beyond that I remember when reading the old golden age stories it often had segments with Superman off encouraging kids to exercise regularly to achieve a physique like his own, so another part of it is he's just suppose to have an idealized physique.

[Superlad93]

Other than Byrne era Superman usually has quite a bit of Superstrength and healing early on, I'm not sure if a concept factoring around tissue breakdown and rebuilding would do much to him. Likewise if his body is capable to breaking down even the most advanced earth poisons I don't know what things like fatty foods would be able to do to him.

Though I remember someone saying that if the earth had %20 more oxygen we would have evolved to be taller and healthier but the insects would evolve to be huge as well. I'd probably say Supes larger frame is due to his own evolutionary process and growing up in an environment foreign to it.

Then why isn't Kara the size of an amazon at the age of 16? She's usually depicted as being a petite or athletic girl of average height. It's all down to personal taste. Superman is a bigger guy because that's shorthand for visual communicating power. I don't think he needs to look like the most physically imposing guy around simply because I don't. No real "evidence" argue against or for it when it's all said an done. And like I said before, I don't particularly care if he's not depicted in my ideal way because I still greatly enjoy artist such like Pat Gleason.

[Prime]

Ugh...Ed Mcguinness' Superman.

Yeah, never really liked how that guy drew Superman.

[Ascended]

I think in All Star and Secret Identity he was perfect because he looked as if he gained his size by way of just doing his thing overtime as opposed to intensive training like Bruce. Clark isn't super cut up because you get defining cuts like that through very specific training, and very specific dieting. For example, if you wanted to see the split in your biceps and tris then you'd need to perform specific isolation movements to achieve the aesthetic. That means going to the gym and meticulously working on the details. Clark doesn't do that.

Indeed it is merely a matter of personal opinion. If we wanted to dig into the science of it all, odds are Clark would look more like his Flashpoint version, since his strength isn't based on muscle action and he'd rarely have a chance to really push himself until adulthood (unless we're including his Superboy phase).

Doesnt Neil DeGrasse Tyson answer questions put to him on twitter? Someone should hit him up. He's a Superman fan. They even met once (and NDT brings it up a lot).

My thing with the All-Star look is that it has the mass I want to see, but just to visually carry the idea of his strength I want *some* definition too. Not body-builder stuff. He shouldn't look like Batman (or Dwayne Johnson to use a real life example) but he shouldn't just be a lump of muscle either.

[Jim Kelly]

Comics are figurative, not literal.

[Superlad93]

My thing with the All-Star look is that it has the mass I want to see, but just to visually carry the idea of his strength I want *some* definition too. Not body-builder stuff. He shouldn't look like Batman (or Dwayne Johnson to use a real life example) but he shouldn't just be a lump of muscle either.

I think that's largely due to the fact that Quitely likes to draw super hero suits as if they were actually made of something, and not painted on. There are a number of pages where you can see the thickness of suit going beyond the what we're used to. There are folds and stitches in his suits.

I'm actually a big fan of making the costumes look like actual physical costumes (though, only when it's fits the artist).



These are Superman's abs as depicted by Quitely. Not ridiculous like someone who has meticulously worked on them, but they're viable. Even though it's covered by his shirt, you can tell that he's got a well devolved back (classic V tapper actually). Likely residual effects from all of the back work his feats require.

[Sacred Knight]

How much muscle mass? How much of anything on Superman is answered by one name: Jose Luis Garcia Lopez. If he looks like that then you're doing it right.