'Man of Steel' IS an Excellent Movie!! MoS Appreciation!

[Dispenser Of Truth]

It was painfully obvious what happened in the theatrical release; the conquerers of America and the world were summarily executed for their crimes against humanity. Back in 1980, nobody cared and I've never heard of anyone arguing otherwise until the ending of MoS leaked out and people pointed out Superman killed before in the movies.

I dunno, I hated that long before MOS. I think the neck-snap was a horrific miscalculation, but only due to the symbolism involved; Superman in II, just plain murdering three powerless, helpless individuals in 100% cold blood, is insanely worse. You can talk about him 'doing what he has to' all you want, there is no interpretation of his actions where he isn't behaving abhorrently.

[Kurosawa]

I dunno, I hated that long before MOS. I think the neck-snap was a horrific miscalculation, but only due to the symbolism involved; Superman in II, just plain murdering three powerless, helpless individuals in 100% cold blood, is insanely worse. You can talk about him 'doing what he has to' all you want, there is no interpretation of his actions where he isn't behaving abhorrently.

They could have had a Superman who killed and it would have worked. If the MOS Superman had been the cocky, brash, frontier justice Superman of the very early Golden Age, and if Zod had been more obviously vile and not just an annoying screamer-a character that the audience wanted to see die-it could have worked. It's not what they did in MOS, it's how they did it.

Obviously Superman II does not count as there is no way that scene was written, shot or acted with the intention of Superman and Lois Lane murdering three (well, really two) depowered and unarmed people. Because if they did, then that Superman and Lois are insane and evil.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Because if they did, then that Superman and Lois are insane and evil.

That is essentially my stance on the matter, yes. See: everything else Superman does in II and Returns.

[Kurosawa]

That is essentially my stance on the matter, yes. See: everything else Superman does in II and Returns.

Well, he's selfish in II, but I don't accept for a second that he and Lois murdered two people and then laughed about it.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Well, he's selfish in II, but I don't accept for a second that he and Lois murdered two people and then laughed about it.

I wouldn't think so, but god help me, I think The Beast might have a point in terms of the public not really caring enough to register it as a problem the way it was presented. Of course, the alternative is that the people making it were simply incompetent, which I am entirely willing to believe what with literally everything else about that final battle in the Fortress.

Also, as usual, I cite the bit where in an act of petty revenge he shoves a man's head through a pinball machine and cracks a joke about it.

[Vidocq]

I wouldn't think so, but god help me, I think The Beast might have a point in terms of the public not really caring enough to register it as a problem the way it was presented. Of course, the alternative is that the people making it were simply incompetent, which I am entirely willing to believe what with literally everything else about that final battle in the Fortress.

Also, as usual, I cite the bit where in an act of petty revenge he shoves a man's head through a pinball machine and cracks a joke about it.

It's been a while since I've seen Superman II, but I'm objecting to your idea that MOS Superman was that much better going by your own complains.

Or the one in Superman Returns for that matter.

[The Beast]

I dunno, I hated that long before MOS. I think the neck-snap was a horrific miscalculation, but only due to the symbolism involved; Superman in II, just plain murdering three powerless, helpless individuals in 100% cold blood, is insanely worse. You can talk about him 'doing what he has to' all you want, there is no interpretation of his actions where he isn't behaving abhorrently.

It depends who is doing the interpreting. Most comic book fans who go into the movie to evaluate it based on accuracy to the source material but movie fans don't. They have their own expectations and one of them, more often than not, is that the villain must die. So a clash of tropes ensues and a filmmaker has to choose which audience they are going to aim for. It not a mistake or they didn't get it right if they chose movie fans over comic fans because it's a Movie first and foremost.

There's no logical reason for super heroes not to use lethal force if the situation warrants it. The no kill rule is a throwback to 1950's McCarthyism/Werthamism, ultra-conservative values imposed on comic books when they were solely children's entertainment. Times have long since changed and comic books are adolescent power fantasies again so there's nothing wrong with Superman using lethal force every once in a while against unstoppable foes.

Every time I see a superhero refuse to kill, it ruins my suspension of disbelief because I know the only real reason they have is children may be watching from the other side of the 4th wall. I've felt this way ever since I was 14 and fortunately CoIE, DKR and Watchmen came along or else I probably would have stopped reading comic books 30 years ago.

[Gaelforce]

Back on track, please.

This is an appreciation thread on MOS, not a discussion about the original Superman.

Please feel free to start a new thread on this topic.

[The Beast]

Back on track, please.

This is an appreciation thread on MOS, not a discussion about the original Superman.

Please feel free to start a new thread on this topic.

Sure thing, sorry about that.

I just watched MoS again for the 15th time and I'm still blown away by the action sequences. They were a little hard to follow during the first time but by Rao, they sure hold up well after multiple viewings. Not only is it impressive to watch Superman battle the Kryptonians but if I were to use my imagination and substitute any of Marvel's movie heroes, there's no way they'd stand a chance against him.

It's like comparing fight scenes between Burt Reynolds in Cannonball Run and Jason Statham in The Transporter.

[Legato]

Sure thing, sorry about that.

I just watched MoS again for the 15th time and I'm still blown away by the action sequences. They were a little hard to follow during the first time but by Rao, they sure hold up well after multiple viewings. Not only is it impressive to watch Superman battle the Kryptonians but if I were to use my imagination and substitute any of Marvel's movie heroes, there's no way they'd stand a chance against him.

It's like comparing fight scenes between Burt Reynolds in Cannonball Run and Jason Statham in The Transporter.

The fight scenes were the best part about MOS

[The Beast]

The fight scenes were the best part about MOS

They needed to be, after 5 movies we were long overdue.

The motion capture techniques they used were fantastic, vastly superior to CG models being animated like Singer did in Returns.

[Legato]

They needed to be, after 5 movies we were long overdue.

The motion capture techniques they used were fantastic, vastly superior to CG models being animated like Singer did in Returns.

I like the fact that this movie utilizes super speed and not resorting to the same old bullet time technique. Like when Faora was taking down those soldiers

[RLAAMJR.]

My favorite Superman film. The Superman actor played well. He looked like Superman.

[The Beast]

My favorite Superman film. The Superman actor played well. He looked like Superman.

And he didn't even need a costume to pull that off.

[Vanguard-01]

And he didn't even need a costume to pull that off.

Very true. Cavill looked the part at all times. In or out of the costume. I really don't think DC could've done a better casting job.