Could Shang Chi have been a better Iron Fist than Danny Rand?

[Michael Watkins]

To even be able to face the Shao-Loa the dragon you have to be approved by the elders of Kun Lun and the Yu-ti. They only approve those who are citizens of Kun Lun.

I thought that was all a sham.

[DragonsChi]

I thought that was all a sham.

No, Yu-ti and the elders still approve who goes into the trial of the Iron Fist.

What your referring to I believe is the battle of the "One" in the trial that was recon to be a robot by Kaaree, that supposedly allowed Danny to win. However, that was recon back out by the Great Ed Brison, one of the best Iron Fist writers ever, to not be the case.

[Coin Biter]

It’s a slightly odd question. Um, I guess. Certain characters are supposed to have greater natural ability than others. I suppose that Bullseye is naturally a better marksman than Frank Castle, for example, and would probably make a better, or at least more murderous, vigilante (putting issues of personal psychology and motivations to one side). But ultimately Danny Rand has the 1930s vibe of young-Westerner-trained-by-secret-esoteric-order story, to put him in the tradition of the Shadow and other pulp heroes. That, I guess, is the point, or one of the points, of the character, rather than because he’s better at that martial arts thang. It’s an archaic story type, to be sure, but these are comics.

As to whether Shang-Chi might have been a better choice for a Netflix show or might have been a better choice for the Defenders, I couldn’t say, because I haven’t watched either I understand obviously that the Iron Fist show received a fair amount of critical ridicule at the time. But whether that’s because of the innate merits of the character or the adaptation I couldn’t say.

[Silvermoth]

Absolutely! Shang chi is a great character but unfortunately iron fist has a greater mythology. If Shang was the iron fist marvel would be raking it in

[legion_quest]

Nope, you'd just be swapping white saviour trope for Asians are all super martial artists trope.

Better to stick with what's there and established, then swap to appease one set of people and yet piss off another at the same time.

Asian people need more representation, but they also need to have their stereotypes cast off. And Shang = Fist would be a massive stereotype and people should feel bad for thinking it, as they're only thinking it works because of a raving and exploitative Hollywood stereotype.

[chamber-music]

No.

Shang Chi has had his own mission in the comics which is dismantling his immortal father's criminal empire. Shang Chi is Bruce Lee from Enter The Dragon mixed with Jason Bourne.

Shang Chi's thing is martial arts espionage stories with some Asian mysticism/fantasy in the mix. Shang Chi fighting his various siblings, rogue spies like Maximillian Zaran and his father's assassins sent to kill him.

Shang Chi doesn't need the power of the Iron Fist. Chi's natural abilities have been shown to rival that of Iron Fists at times.

Shang Chi doesn't have a connection to K'un-L'un and has no real reason to want to become the champion of K'un-L'un. I'm not interested in seeing Shang Chi fighting street level crime again.

For whatever reason, marvel can no longer use the fu manchu angle, so you might as well completly reboot him.

Marvel have been using the name Zheng Zu instead of Fu Manchu for a while now. Zheng Zu is said to be his real name while names like Fu Manchu and Han have been alias.

They have already sort of semi rebooted him. The character still fits the mystical immortal criminal template that Fu Manchu set without the dated racial caricature elements. Fu Manchu was also a inspiration for Batman villain Ra's Al Ghul.

[Tien Long]

Quite an intriguing notion. For me, I approach the topic a number of different ways.

Are we talking about martial arts skills? If that's the case, then Shang ever so slightly takes the lead. I've said before on a number of occasions that the iron fist is what gives Danny an advantage over Shang. If a fight occurred b/w the two based solely on skill, Shang could win. In the latest Iron Fist series, Danny concedes this idea:



Thus, Shang as the Iron Fist would be incredibly skilled and a potentially better fighter than Danny.

Are we talking about story potential? If that's the case, then having Shang as Iron Fist would present a huge number of really interesting stories. As Chamber Music mentioned, Shang-Chi's mythos has elements of espionage and Asian mysticism. Still, I feel that Zheng Zu, his army of assassins, and MI-6 would fit perfectly with K'un Lun, Liu-Shi, the Capital Cities of Heaven, and the Immortal Weapons. Honestly, I feel that these elements should have crossed paths before (I'm thinking that Zheng Zu had to have tried to takeover K'un Lun in the past. A possible story in the future? But I digress). Having Shang as Iron Fist would bring them together.

Ultimately, for me, the decision comes down to character and for me Danny wins it here. Shang is a serious character. (Indeed, I tend to think that he's portrayed as being TOO serious, almost Spock-like. Writers, c'mon, the guy can can smile, be down to earth, and crack a joke! Add more dimensions to this guy!) Shang's past is pretty complex, having to be an MI-6 agent and deal with his father. But he always treats the situation seriously. Danny, on the other hand, seems to be have more layers to him as a character. In one sense, he can be very aloof and goofy. During the Brubaker/Faction run, he had a very "....wait, what?" type of mentality. We got to see Danny exhibit this quality even more as he played the funny uncle role in the "Iron Fists" title when he was mentoring Pei. At the same time, he can be very serious. He has had to deal with a lot of pain and rage over the death of his parents. He has issues with identity, not fully belonging in either New York or K'un Lun. Obligations and responsibility haunt him, as he is supposed to be the defender of K'un Lun, which as of late, has undergone tremendous upheaval and destruction.

These are very potent character elements and because of that, I feel that Danny edges out Shang here.

At the end of the day, while Shang could be a great Iron Fist, I still feel that Danny and Shang are great as they are currently are.

Turning Shang Chi into Iron Fist would mean he would no longer be Shang Chi. The specific factors that made him Shang Chi would no longer apply if he was Iron Fist. His father, of course, but also his scorn for "games of deceit and death."

I'd much rather they bring Pei back and do more with her. Because Pei is the goddamn best.

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Definitely agree with you there. Keeping the iron fists crossed and hoping that Pei will be seen in the future!

[DragonsChi]

Not he did say PROBABLY Tien Long. LOL

So far both of them have been pretty even with or without the Iron Fist. With every match they have had so far ending in a stalemate.

[Michael Watkins]

Nope, you'd just be swapping white saviour trope for Asians are all super martial artists trope.

Better to stick with what's there and established, then swap to appease one set of people and yet piss off another at the same time.

Asian people need more representation, but they also need to have their stereotypes cast off. And Shang = Fist would be a massive stereotype and people should feel bad for thinking it, as they're only thinking it works because of a raving and exploitative Hollywood stereotype.

That's a really weak excuse. Anyone without powers in the marvel universe better be able to fight or build themselves an iron man armor. But if they do build it, you'll probably dismiss it as a smart Asian trope. Shang has more than one side. And this thread rolled directly out of the "would rogue make a better captain marvel thread."

[DragonsChi]

If that is the case you could have stage the premise of the thread better...

Something like " If Shang-Chi had arrived in K'un L'un at the same time as Danny Rand, who would be Iron Fist".

Right now the thread is based off the premise of the characters already established history giving it a slant in the only direction it really could go.

I would still choose Danny but at least the thread would have been more thought provoking.

Friendly Advise for next time.

[Michael Watkins]

If that is the case you could have stage the premise of the thread better...

Something like " If Shang-Chi had arrived in K'un L'un at the same time as Danny Rand, who would be Iron Fist".

Right now the thread is based off the premise of the characters already established history giving it a slant in the only direction it really could go.

I would still choose Danny but at least the thread would have been more thought provoking.

Friendly Advise for next time.

it's 'advice.' and I didn't put any restrictions on the thread or premise. because I didn't care about the outcome.

[DragonsChi]

it's 'advice.' and I didn't put any restrictions on the thread or premise. because I didn't care about the outcome.

Thanks! English isn't my first language so I struggle often.

I didn't care who would get more votes in the Rogue Captain Marvel thread but I still wanted to see what the end results would be. What is the point of the poll if you did not care about that at least? Just curious.

[Michael Watkins]

Thanks! English isn't my first language so I struggle often.

I didn't care who would get more votes in the Rogue Captain Marvel thread but I still wanted to see what the end results would be. What is the point of the poll if you did not care about that at least? Just curious.

it's there for anyone who does care.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

people are asking

In live action he'd be a better replacement because he has less special effects heavy and more of a blank canvas so you can mold him however you want. Just make his father apart of the Hand's inner circle and your golden.

In comics unless he absorbs the dragon's chi like Pei did he would have to go through the same trials that Danny did. Lei kung is more likely to train him as a child so you would have to set that up. He spends the next ten years training to fight shou-lao, wins the right to face him, wins the actual fight and absorbs the chi. He would later leave K'un l'un to go stop his father.

He'd probably be like Quake, a super powered spy.

He'd be better as Iron Fist because he'd have a larger scale of threats and a wider range of skills to use against.

[Michael Watkins]

In live action he'd be a better replacement because he has less special effects heavy and more of a blank canvas so you can mold him however you want. Just make his father apart of the Hand's inner circle and your golden.

In comics unless he absorbs the dragon's chi like Pei did he would have to go through the same trials that Danny did. Lei kung is more likely to train him as a child so you would have to set that up. He spends the next ten years training to fight shou-lao, wins the right to face him, wins the actual fight and absorbs the chi. He would later leave K'un l'un to go stop his father.

but what if he's a better fighter than Lei Kung?