SDCC: "Batman: The Killing Joke" Screenwriter Explains Controversial Sex Scene

[Punisher007]

Like I said, he'd better hope that her commissioner father never finds out. He's going to have half of the GCPD gunning for him all of a sudden.

[Aioros22]

Azz also wrote this

Attachment 38237

What does that got to do with this?

[keeen]

Azzarello's never written anything that impressed me, personally, but now I think he's kind of a creep.

Ditto for Timm after reading some of the comments here that pointed out some stuff I wasn't aware of.

Goddamn it, I'm too young at 31 to be pining for "the Batman I grew up with," but between all the gunplay in the movie and now him taking advantage of his position of authority to **** a girl who is essentially his student, I feel like DC is just turning the character into something I can't possibly get behind.

[MeloDet]

I think I'd have less of an issue with this if Bruce Timm didn't seem to do this so often. How many characters has he shipped with Bruce through his various works? Not to mention that most of them never even had any prior romantic connection to Batman.

[godisawesome]

I'd have to agree that this whole thing just seems ... wrong. Bruce is basically like a second father to Barbara. It just doesn't seem right for them to be 'shipped' or have them ... doing it. Even though they're not actually related, it does come across to me as a bit incestuous.

Besides, haven't Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon been an on/off pairing for decades, now?

I think that's actually less set in stone than you'd believe; I think a lot of readers, particularly from my generation, hold the Dick and Babs pairing as important because of the quality of it's writing when the quantity is actually lower than you expect. Robin being attracted to Babs was always part of the chemistry, but the only serious period that I can actually recall in the comics was when Chich Dixon still wrote half of the Gotham titles. Dick had a famous on and off romance with Starfire, but the only time he and Babs actually dated was during and after No Man's Land up until Devin Grayson broke them up for War Games.

And I think the sheer quality of Dixon's characterization and assistance recieved from Gail Simone for a while during that time is what made it so memorable: the actual kiss and romance began after the Blackgate arc in Nightwing with a memorable invasion for the Clocktower by a Petit and an alliance with Huntress, you had Black Canary making hilarious observations about Babs dating Grayson-grade beefcake, and you had the famous "I'm giving Babs back her wings with a date at Haley's Circus on the trapeze" issue. And all of that was organically spread through 2 books instead of one, and had one of the medium's greatest masters of characterization writing it.

Now, as to the thing in this movie... I'm not just uncomfortable with Babs's element of this strange romantic prologue, I'm kind of weirded out by Batman being involved too. There's a lot of surface similarities to the New 52 Catwoman #1issue, and a bit of the same embracing the idea that Batman should be getting freaky with all sorts of women under questionable circumstances and in a seemingly shallow way that tries to imagine Batman as being a bit of a male sexual fantasy as well. I mean, it now looks like both Judd Winick and Brian Azzarello believe Batman's the type of guy who's raw sex appeal is strong enough to get women almost literally jumping him on rooftops (which by itself isn't necessarily a departure from the norm) and with him having no compunctions over anything (which kind of is?).

Apart from all the unfortunate and disappointing interpretations that can be made about the thing with Barbrar herself, this film does make the assumption that Batman is willing to risk a friendship, a professional relationship, the identity of at least Barbara and maybe himself, as well as any sanitary or emotional considerations, just because he can have sex right then. That strikes me as a bit reckless, immature, and a little shallow, and all that's in the film, regardless of the context that the rest of us are used to. And it paints a picture of a Batman that's a bit different than some of us are used to. I mean, if you got into comics with the 90's Batman books, than you're used to just about the entire family being shockingly well adjusted and and functional, and pretty much all of them "above" such juvenile vices.

[adrikito]

"The thing about this is that it's controversial, so we added more controversy,"

That may be the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

I think the same.

[Bukdiah]

Azzarello's never written anything that impressed me, personally, but now I think he's kind of a creep.

Ditto for Timm after reading some of the comments here that pointed out some stuff I wasn't aware of.

Goddamn it, I'm too young at 31 to be pining for "the Batman I grew up with," but between all the gunplay in the movie and now him taking advantage of his position of authority to **** a girl who is essentially his student, I feel like DC is just turning the character into something I can't possibly get behind.

I don't like the relationship either, but that's pretty off base in the movie. He didn't take advantage of anyone.

[keeen]

I don't like the relationship either, but that's pretty off base in the movie. He didn't take advantage of anyone.

I didn't say "take advantage" like rape or something, and I wasn't suggesting that she wasn't "into it," because I don't think that's relevant. I meant "take advantage" in the sense that someone naturally looks up to a person in a position of authority, and it's incumbent on that authority figure to draw a more responsible line in terms of where the relationship stands. I don't think it's appropriate or respectable for a college professor to sleep with a willing adult student, for example.

[Bukdiah]

Yeah, Batgirl does initiate it in the movie and Batman does reciprocate. I wanted him to brush her off too. They both regret it afterwards and become distant for a bit though, so I guess they thought it was a mistake. I agree with the college professor thing if the student is currently enrolled in the class the professor is teaching.

[3Dspiderbat]

Straight up pandering BS.

[byrd156]

I just finished the movie a few minutes ago since a 1080p version is leaked online. I have no idea if I'd see this in theaters like I intended to, but this scene came about in a very strange way. It was more of an altercation leading up to...frustration sex I guess? Either way, it was still "WTF." Batgirl and Batman do kinda regret it afterwards though if that's any consolation to anyone?

What's the point of the sex then, if they regret it?

[mathew101281]

What's the point of the sex then, if they regret it?

Like he said it's there to be controversial.

[Badou]

What's the point of the sex then, if they regret it?

To show how strong she is by having her not want to have sex with Batman again, lol. Yeah, I know it's dumb.

[JasonTodd428]

Well the news on this one just keeps getting better and better. What a steaming pile of BS. Just a heads up DC, TKJ is already controversial enough as it is and and there was no need to add more fuel to that fire. I'm so glad I wasn't going to be getting this anyway but I do feel for those of you who were looking forward to it.

[justinslot]

Ugh Bruce Timm:

"There's clearly an unstated attraction between the two of the characters from the very beginning and I think it's there in the comics. If you go back and look at the Adam West show, it's there in the Adam West show," said Timm. "It's subtle, but to me it's always been there."

He's going back to the frigging camp Adam West show to justify his ongoing Bruce/Babs fanficcing.