Zatanna Zatara: Mistress of Magic Appreciation 2021

[Mai Zen]

Well, from the sounds of it at least Constantine didn't show up.

Arguably could be said she in this arc is on par or even more worse than Constantine

She got what she wanted in the end. it reminded me of this.



Also I know for sure now this is a much weaker version of zatanna, her power is more skill based. She is only half homo magi now. I dont think she could beat a full mary marvel.

A strange hill to die for talk about powerlevel in Young Justice, when inexperienced Zee do fine against Billy not to mention there are no clear information about full or half homo magi. Its look like this arc strenghened your hate for Zatanna personally. Tbh I can understand and agree with You and think its fair for YJ Zatanna to be called and hated for her intention in this arc. I can see long windy road full of drama, angst, regret for Zee before she could fix herself and rise from this grievous mistakes, of course if Greg's is not totally focused on plot and world/history building.

[Frontier]

Not familiar with Mary. How did they drop the ball with her?

Think Countdown and Final Crisis and you'll be in the right ballpark.

I don't recall her doing anything this shady in her previous appearances. Did they show her having any qualms about it at all?

Not really. At best she just tells Traci (who is only 18) that she has the right to refuse but she's an adult who can make her own decisions.

[John Venus]

Think Countdown and Final Crisis and you'll be in the right ballpark.

Oh yeah, I remember evil Mary Marvel; a previously wholesome character hyper sexualized into an evil version of herself by middle aged writers and artists. It's like they were trying to do their own version of Dark Phoenix but badly.

I wasn't familiar with Mary's prior characterization but I still found the whole thing terrible.

Still, I think what Weisman is doing is already light years better than what we got in the comics.

Not really. At best she just tells Traci (who is only 18) that she has the right to refuse but she's an adult who can make her own decisions.

I've seen the episode now. It looks she only got the idea at the start of the ep. Still doesn't make it okay but I wish it wasn't a background thing.

Zatanna is fundamentally a good person with a strong moral code, having her confront the possibility of her father's time running out, Nabu needing a new host to battle a powerful cosmic threat, Nabu's new host potentially being one of her students, exploring what it means to be Dr Fate and whether that needs to change, are all interesting questions to have her confront and deal with.

Not a fan of her going dark or morally grey just based on the reasoning that magic is dark or power corrupts and she was desperate.

[Gaius]

Anyways

[Zee_Fan]

Finally watched it. I kind of figured where the conclusion was heading (or some variant of it) but disappointed with how they got there. It was better than I was expecting, but I was pretty much expecting the absolute worst. I'm going to cancel my subscription before it renews, so I'll skip the rest of the season unless something pulls me back (which I doubt will happen).

Felt more like a Vandal Savage arc than a Zee one to me.

Rough week for Zee.

[Rac7d*]

Arguably could be said she in this arc is on par or even more worse than Constantine



A strange hill to die for talk about powerlevel in Young Justice, when inexperienced Zee do fine against Billy not to mention there are no clear information about full or half homo magi. Its look like this arc strenghened your hate for Zatanna personally. Tbh I can understand and agree with You and think its fair for YJ Zatanna to be called and hated for her intention in this arc. I can see long windy road full of drama, angst, regret for Zee before she could fix herself and rise from this grievous mistakes, of course if Greg's is not totally focused on plot and world/history building.

I do not hate Zatanna? I was shocked at the twist. I never thought she would manipulate kids to save her father. I’m still bug eyed about it. I just know it’s not gonna end well for her, the helmet of fate is not a class per to be passed around each week.

There was a lot of information given during this arc on homo magi. Although dc as a whole does not explore it much.

Zatanna is typically a full blooded homo magi. Traci like Khalid is half from one parent. Some characters like Constantine or Mary are not homo magi at all. Mary was bestowed her power, and even then it appears she has to fuel herself to a degree when not using it in full. Constantine power comes from study, rituals, artifacts. We often seen pull somthing out of his pocket before he casts. He is usually nowhere near Zatanna level in full raw power but makes up by being a clever bastard.

I’m more disappointed that thease kids were the sentinels of magic, inexperience unrefined and uninteresting. When the best part of magic is the creativity and spalsh. I know the Z fans hate Constantine because he shows up Zatanna but he would have been more fun then thease kids.

[Rac7d*]

Oh yeah, I remember evil Mary Marvel; a previously wholesome character hyper sexualized into an evil version of herself by middle aged writers and artists. It's like they were trying to do their own version of Dark Phoenix but badly.

I wasn't familiar with Mary's prior characterization but I still found the whole thing terrible.

Still, I think what Weisman is doing is already light years better than what we got in the comics.




I've seen the episode now. It looks she only got the idea at the start of the ep. Still doesn't make it okay but I wish it wasn't a background thing.

Zatanna is fundamentally a good person with a strong moral code, having her confront the possibility of her father's time running out, Nabu needing a new host to battle a powerful cosmic threat, Nabu's new host potentially being one of her students, exploring what it means to be Dr Fate and whether that needs to change, are all interesting questions to have her confront and deal with.

Not a fan of her going dark or morally grey just based on the reasoning that magic is dark or power corrupts and she was desperate.

No she had the idea before

Zatanna “thanks doc”
Khalid. “ I’m not a doctor yet”
Zatanna eyes looking away “no … not yet”

It’s not a coincidence. Zatanna also know Nabu will put order before benevolence, if she is willing to risk her students in this proposal 18 or not she is definitely thinking selfishly. She’s human so I don’t hate her for it. But it’s definitely wrong.

[Gaius]

As an aside as someone whose never liked Vandal Savage, I’m all in the people dunking on YJ making him such a Villain Sue.

[starduck]

This yj arc was terrible. And Zatanna definitely was planning to pass around the helmet. A lot of her actions through this arc make way more sense with that in mind. Also this is petty but why do they go out of their way to make Zatanna be the dullest magic user in the show, her spells are so boring

[Rac7d*]

This yj arc was terrible. And Zatanna definitely was planning to pass around the helmet. A lot of her actions through this arc make way more sense with that in mind. Also this is petty but why do they go out of their way to make Zatanna be the dullest magic user in the show, her spells are so boring

It’s not just her they all are. Except for child and Etrigan everyone had no imagination. Khalid glows green. Traci had a little style at least. I think Mary is limited by the powers of Shazam, unless she speaks backwards. But Zatanna really did the least.

90F84084-0FF3-4E37-8518-8D53E6C37BDB.jpg

[starduck]

It’s not just her they all are. Except for child and Etrigan everyone had no imagination. Khalid glows green. Traci had a little style at least. I think Mary is limited by the powers of Shazam, unless she speaks backwards. But Zatanna really did the least.

90F84084-0FF3-4E37-8518-8D53E6C37BDB.jpg

Yeah, but they has a few interesting effects here and there.
Lol I wonder if Dark Mary vs Zatanna will happen in young Justice, though this Zatanna actually deserves the beatdown

[Vordan]

As an aside as someone whose never liked Vandal Savage, I’m all in the people dunking on YJ making him such a Villain Sue.

I like that an underrated DC villain is getting focused on over Lex and Joker, but Jesus has Weisman overdone it with the “all according to keikaku” meme.

[John Venus]

Finally watched it. I kind of figured where the conclusion was heading (or some variant of it) but disappointed with how they got there. It was better than I was expecting, but I was pretty much expecting the absolute worst. I'm going to cancel my subscription before it renews, so I'll skip the rest of the season unless something pulls me back (which I doubt will happen).

Felt more like a Vandal Savage arc than a Zee one to me.

Rough week for Zee.

Agreed on all counts. Lots of interesting ideas, just badly executed.

IÂ’m more disappointed that thease kids were the sentinels of magic, inexperience unrefined and uninteresting. When the best part of magic is the creativity and spalsh. I know the Z fans hate Constantine because he shows up Zatanna but he would have been more fun then thease kids.

Nah, there are no bad characters, just bad writers. I don't mind the cast that they utilized but they definitely could have utilized better.

No she had the idea before

Zatanna “thanks doc”
Khalid. “ I’m not a doctor yet”
Zatanna eyes looking away “no … not yet”

ItÂ’s not a coincidence. Zatanna also know Nabu will put order before benevolence, if she is willing to risk her students in this proposal 18 or not she is definitely thinking selfishly. SheÂ’s human so I donÂ’t hate her for it. But itÂ’s definitely wrong.

We saw at the end of the episode that the thought of one of her students becoming Fate only occurred to her when she was assessing them after the end of their training exercise in the first episode of her arc.

We know she wants her father back but we don't really see her struggling with the decision or going through any conflict. An arc supposedly centered on her but she is on the sidelines. That's the problem.

This yj arc was terrible. And Zatanna definitely was planning to pass around the helmet. A lot of her actions through this arc make way more sense with that in mind. Also this is petty but why do they go out of their way to make Zatanna be the dullest magic user in the show, her spells are so boring

I agree. Whether DCU or even MCU I am getting tired of magic just being colourful light beams just give us something interesting and original. Zatanna is a stage magician as well, she has to have props and tricks or even a deck of cards that she can mix with her real magic.

Yeah, but they has a few interesting effects here and there.
Lol I wonder if Dark Mary vs Zatanna will happen in young Justice, though this Zatanna actually deserves the beatdown

They seem to be doing their own version of Mary's arc from 'Countdown to Final Crisis' to 'Final Crisis'.

If my guess is right, Zatanna's actions here seem to follow the same beats of her 'story arc' in Identity Crisis sans mind wipe, here we have her doing something morally dubious but with the best of intentions. She now knows something is up with Connor. That will lead her to Megan and Artemis. At some point, the trick she and Megan did on Artemis in S3 will come to light. This will end up jeopardizing the friendship between Zatanna, Artemis and Megan, just like how the mind wipe in Identity Crisis jeopardized the trust between her and Batman plus the League. After that she either stays with the League or moves on to create her own supernatural team.

I like that an underrated DC villain is getting focused on over Lex and Joker, but Jesus has Weisman overdone it with the “all according to keikaku” meme.

Agreed.

I used to like this take on Vandal Savage in the earlier seasons but now he's lost some of that coolness.

[John Venus]

JLD appeared in the most recent Flash issue. I recommend checking out the two issues that came out prior to this. Not a lot of Zatanna here but it's okay, she gets the same amount of dialogue as the rest of the team sans Dr Fate who is the co-lead here. It's really nice to see Khalid's Dr Fate written like the Dr Fate I recognize; enigmatic, otherworldly, yet human and so immersed in sorcery that the real world escapes him. At the same time Constatine is thankfully not getting any special treatment here or drawing focus away from other characters.

Anyway, I got a kick out of Wally showing up Constantine here:

[Frontier]

I like that an underrated DC villain is getting focused on over Lex and Joker, but Jesus has Weisman overdone it with the “all according to keikaku” meme.

I appreciate (to a certain point) that the show has such competent and effective villains but it feels like the show is starting to get too in love with them.

Like, it doesn't need to be easy but at some point you just want the heroes to beat the @#$% out of the villains instead of some game of cat and mouse with barely any progress all the time.

I agree. Whether DCU or even MCU I am getting tired of magic just being colourful light beams just give us something interesting and original. Zatanna is a stage magician as well, she has to have props and tricks or even a deck of cards that she can mix with her real magic.

Is she a stage magician in this universe? I mean, Klarion called her that once but I don't think they've ever, on-screen, confirmed she's a stage magician professionally. Even in her own arc it never came up beyond her being her father's assistant.

Which is probably one of my main issues with the arc because, as much as I love Zatanna and Zatara's relationship, all this arc amounted to was her obsession with saving her father which seems like the only important thing about her character. Even her training protege's ended up fueling her storyline with her father. She has, like, nothing else going on.

JLD appeared in the most recent Flash issue. I recommend checking out the two issues that came out prior to this. Not a lot of Zatanna here but it's okay, she gets the same amount of dialogue as the rest of the team sans Dr Fate who is the co-lead here. It's really nice to see Khalid's Dr Fate written like the Dr Fate I recognize; enigmatic, otherworldly, yet human and so immersed in sorcery that the real world escapes him. At the same time Constatine is thankfully not getting any special treatment here or drawing focus away from other characters.

Anyway, I got a kick out of Wally showing up Constantine here:

[IMG]

"Connie." I love that.