Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[DigiCom]

You're probably right my brother.

Honestly, spoilers:

I expect it will be sooner,

end of spoilers but I want to give myself a little wiggle room.

[Tofali]

Dude would have made a better Black Lightning than that milquetoast cat the got playing the role.

It's CW the goal is milquetoast lmao! all male characters are soap opera characters.

[Frontier]

I totally respect your opinion but, I lost interest in dude and was more enthused by the female cast members.

The female cast is pretty awesome. Thunder even had her own theme song .

I stopped watching the show pretty quickly because it bored me to tears.

I thought it was a pretty engrossing Superhero narrative personally, but to each their own.

It's CW the goal is milquetoast lmao! all male characters are soap opera characters.

I feel like compared to the other Arrowverse male leads, Jefferson was handled pretty well.

I'd honestly say his relationship with Lynn was much better handled then some of the main couples in other DC CW shows.

[skyvolt2000]

I totally respect your opinion but, I lost interest in dude and was more enthused by the female cast members.

I stopped watching the show pretty quickly because it bored me to tears.

I do question the too dark comment. He and Cress are pretty much the same or close to skin tone. I think it had more to do with Cress already working for the CW with Heart of Dixe. He might have had an option to star on a show after that ended in 2015.

[Ezyo1000]

Or you have folks that finally realized what Coates was doing and had ZERO interest.

You can pull that stealth Midnight Angle or Storm solo ONCE and get away with it. Now that many see it for what it was-no one is going to trust you a second time around. Especially when there is no Storm solo going on.

So folks expected to see the same crap in this volume and didn't bother. Right now it's on Coates to present a better Black Panther-because no one wants a Stealth whatever book or a waterdown Panther.

In this case, MoS is talking about actual hardcore BP fans keeping the book really good considering it was announced as a mini. The reason is because the art wsd good, and Evans treated Tchalla with respect and showcased hon as a badass and respected and combined his origins into a comprehensive year one

[Redjack]

Prowler and Black Cat? I'm glad for you, Hobie .

(His suit looks more like the Beetle though).

it's a prequel. neither of them is in their current ID until the final issue.

[Ezyo1000]

May I invite you to my DEVIANT ART PAGE

I just want to say. I don't care for blue marvel at all, but your cover and you writing it? I would be down

[butterflykyss]

Maybe relaunches with new a new writer.

so I was reluctant to say this here because I knew from this I would certainly be called all types of deprecating things but i figured this needed to be said despite this. BP and him doing well or not well isnt tied to Coates. It's honestly just a sign of the market as comic books all around are not doing that hot. Also this has happened before. It occurred with Hudlin which a lot of you here swear by but his original run was relaunched and it ended suffering a similar fate:

http://www.comicsbeat.com/marvel-mon...february-2009/

The much-hyped relaunch of BLACK PANTHER, trailed with plenty of house ads, see the expected jump in sales. But BLACK PANTHER has done better than this in the past – this number is roughly on a par with its CIVIL WAR tie-ins from a couple of years ago. This opening arc is a Dark Reign tie-in, incidentally.

The pattern with this book, under Reginald Hudlin’s authorship, seems to be that it does quite well so long as it’s tying in to major crossovers, but struggles a bit when left to its own devices. I’m not convinced it’ll be any different this time, but you never know.

Well we do know how that ended for hudlin. The point being is I know a lot of you are happy about these numbers but I suspect even if you get the writers you want and the stories you want this tale would still end similarly because it's not the writing or stories that is the problem: it's the market. I would caution being excited about these numbers and truly seek to understand why BP solos cant sustain itself.

[Mr MajestiK]

so I was reluctant to say this here because I knew from this I would certainly be called all types of deprecating things but i figured this needed to be said despite this. BP and him doing well or not well isnt tied to Coates. It's honestly just a sign of the market as comic books all around are not doing that hot. Also this has happened before. It occurred with Hudlin which a lot of you here swear by but his original run was relaunched and it ended suffering a similar fate:

http://www.comicsbeat.com/marvel-mon...february-2009/

The much-hyped relaunch of BLACK PANTHER, trailed with plenty of house ads, see the expected jump in sales. But BLACK PANTHER has done better than this in the past – this number is roughly on a par with its CIVIL WAR tie-ins from a couple of years ago. This opening arc is a Dark Reign tie-in, incidentally.

The pattern with this book, under Reginald Hudlin’s authorship, seems to be that it does quite well so long as it’s tying in to major crossovers, but struggles a bit when left to its own devices. I’m not convinced it’ll be any different this time, but you never know.

Well we do know how that ended for hudlin. The point being is I know a lot of you are happy about these numbers but I suspect even if you get the writers you want and the stories you want this tale would still end similarly because it's not the writing or stories that is the problem: it's the market. I would caution being excited about these numbers and truly seek to understand why BP solos cant sustain itself.

Why would anyone call you names or otherwise be wholly unpleasant if you come in here and post discussion stimulating topics?

Speaking for myself, I don't give a jot about overall sales as long as a writer delivers thought provoking and action packed stories with the titular character front and centre within their OWN solo book.

As for BLACK Panther solos supposedly not being able to "sustain themselves," Priest's BP ran for just over 60 issues whilst Hudlin's ran for roughly 40 + issues before being cancelled after Jonathan Maberry took over writing duties which in turn makes Reginald Hudlin the only BP author to script a run that was not cancelled during his tenure chronicling T'Challa' s adventures.

There are some mainstream characters who can't even manage to sustain an on going solo beyond 12 issues so I think T'Challa will be fine moving forward..

[DigiCom]

The problem arises when people (not our esteemed brother butterflykyss) are hypocrites about it, and give Coates credit for the book's successes (ignoring such details as the artist, variant covers, and the occasional stunt renumbering) but then turn around and blame the market when the sales inevitably drop.

And there's a major difference between now and when Priest & Hudlin wrote the book. Actually, there are almost 7 billion reasons.

[Ezyo1000]

so I was reluctant to say this here because I knew from this I would certainly be called all types of deprecating things but i figured this needed to be said despite this. BP and him doing well or not well isnt tied to Coates. It's honestly just a sign of the market as comic books all around are not doing that hot. Also this has happened before. It occurred with Hudlin which a lot of you here swear by but his original run was relaunched and it ended suffering a similar fate:

http://www.comicsbeat.com/marvel-mon...february-2009/

The much-hyped relaunch of BLACK PANTHER, trailed with plenty of house ads, see the expected jump in sales. But BLACK PANTHER has done better than this in the past – this number is roughly on a par with its CIVIL WAR tie-ins from a couple of years ago. This opening arc is a Dark Reign tie-in, incidentally.

The pattern with this book, under Reginald Hudlin’s authorship, seems to be that it does quite well so long as it’s tying in to major crossovers, but struggles a bit when left to its own devices. I’m not convinced it’ll be any different this time, but you never know.

Well we do know how that ended for hudlin. The point being is I know a lot of you are happy about these numbers but I suspect even if you get the writers you want and the stories you want this tale would still end similarly because it's not the writing or stories that is the problem: it's the market. I would caution being excited about these numbers and truly seek to understand why BP solos cant sustain itself.

Difference being Hudlin had a relaunch after 40+ issues of success, whereas Coates had a renumbering boost what, 18 issue's in? Followed by a relaunch after S2 ended. Different times, Coates is working with MCU power and T'Challa being a known entity. Priest and Hudlin built him to that point and instead of striking while the iron was hot and doing more of that elevation, Coates instead says "well the writer's before me have built him up enough so that he is always seen as awesome awesome awesome (bit the case, they showed him struggling as well) so I am going to show people how he isn't so awesome all the time" and when you do that while providing s very biased and boring series that sidelines the Character you get Coates situation where he needs constant saving by Marvel. I guarantee you Hudlin's and priest runs would last Alot longer if they launched with the backing Coates is getting. Because there stories are solid

[MindofShadow]

But speaking of unconventional writers for BP, you know who'd I like to see take a shot at it? Warren Ellis. Secret societies, advanced technologies, arcane religious practices, that's all right up his ally. In fact, he already wrote a story about a secret technologically advanced city of Black people in Planetary #17. This would be a natural expansion of those ideas.

There is no point mentioning Ellis as an ongoing writer because you are getting 6 delayed issues and 6 delayed issues only.

6 pretty darn good delayed issues but six none the less.

Ellis is a palate cleanse more than a Marvel writer. You'd get 6 delayed issues of T'challa beating ass with minimal commentary.

[Nate Grey]

Dude would have made a better Black Lightning than that milquetoast cat the got playing the role.

Oh agreed, but I think they were going for an "elder statesman" type with Cress Williams. To that end he's ok, but for a younger leader type Mustafa Shakir would have killed it.

[MindofShadow]

Well we do know how that ended for hudlin. The point being is I know a lot of you are happy about these numbers but I suspect even if you get the writers you want and the stories you want this tale would still end similarly because it's not the writing or stories that is the problem: it's the market. I would caution being excited about these numbers and truly seek to understand why BP solos cant sustain itself.

Black Panther has had 200 comics.

Vol 3 ran for 60+ issues. With no tie ins and being ignored by the entire comic universe much to Priest's chagrin.

Vol 4 and 5 ran over a combined 50+ issues

They stripped a character of everything, threw him into hells kitchen, and still did 15 ish issues.... which is longer than a lot of "popular" characters *coughcoughcoughcoughahem* longest runs.


One thing to note about T'challa's sales is that:

a) he is black. Which put him behind the 8 ball for decades. Just ask Don.

b) he has never had any support from Marvel before Hickman New Avengers run. He never got A list writers. He never got to play in the "big" events until Hudlin forced him in.... and even then, the main event titles ignored him. T'challa runs a super country with tech beyond everyone else and yet that never effects a single thing around the Marvel Universe? How? What ist he coolest thing T'challa has done in an Avengers book? Punch out Skulls Jaw and..... ???? There were no toys, no tshirts, no merch whatsoever.

c) Hickman is the first time a big writer made him "important" in a main book. Despite some of his unpopular decisions regarding the mythos, the panel time in that book and then SW was invaluable for the franchise. T'challa was important for 5 years and then that spring boarded into his solo (+ CW movie and the accompanying merch and publicity explosion) that has sold very well.


This "solo can't sustain" stuff is frankly crap right now and outdated as hell. Black Panther just had an ANNOUNCED MINI that stayed in the 18000+ range... which is above cancellation these days. The "anything below 25 or 20 is cancellation zone!" hasn't been true for a couple years now. under 18000 it gets a little shady but there have been many titles now that survive in the 16000-18000 range.

Marvel is using gimmicks to boost sales of Black Panther... just like every other franchise they care about! Black Pantheri s just finally getting to benefit from the same crap that Marvel has pulled with its other "big" titles for years now. Hell, even with these "gimmicks"... Panther hasn't been able to tie into events AT ALL. No CWII tie ins, no Pleasant Hill, no SE, no Infinity Stone thing. It has been self contained.

I would also like to point out, that BP 172, the end of the run and before the relaunch... Panther outsold Deadpool, Miles, All NEw Wolverine, Dr. Strange, Moon Knight, Punisher, and Incredible Hulk. Rise of the Black Panther, an ANNOUNCED MINI WHICH KILLS SALES, in the same month, outsold Cable, Spider-Gwen, Rogue/Gambit, Champions, and Ms Marvel.


I don't like Coates run content wise. I won't deny it hasn't been selling well and is 100% sustainable right now. The thing is, this isn't just due to Coates like some people like to hang on... it is because Marvel is finally treating the franchise like a property that can sell for once. I'd be really curious what BP could sell without such a controversial writer who can't get hardcores to buy in completely and due to his politcal leanings, pushes away the core comic base a bit just because of his name. I mean, ****, Rise, with a neophyte journalist as a writer, sold 18K plus despite being announced as a mini... all because he didn't write T'challa like a bitch. What could that same "style" accomplish with Marvel's full power behind it?

[XPac]

Oh agreed, but I think they were going for an "elder statesman" type with Cress Williams. To that end he's ok, but for a younger leader type Mustafa Shakir would have killed it.

I think having an older hero is cool, just because it's different. We have a lot of young adult and teenage heroes on TV and in movies. Having an older hero I think brings a bit of variety to the mix. And you're telling a very different sort of story about a retired hero who is a father. It's just different from the other super hero shows and movies out there.