Will Richard Rider Be Wiped Over And Forgotten, Like Mar-Vell?

[DragonsChi]

Wow you love taking things out of the context they where originally stated in. Five times does not mean anything in comparison to a character whose sales where never high at all. Five times in comparison to where the original of the title had to come back on Sam's third outing in hopes of salvaging what was left of a degraded concept.

The Nova fanbase may not be as strong as some others but just taking a peak back when it was at it's height it's clear that it could have been. The creation of Sam and the handling of him there after ruined that. Which sucks for not only the character but for the small representation he has that could have been represented in a big way. At this point it be better for the potential franchise to move forward with the guy who people proved to have liked and see if he can fix what's left of it. Rich.

Your points about Spiderverse is built on a false premise. What that movie shows is that Miles ,who is different character than Sam, may have a shot. But even in saying that Peter Parker is in the film helping him get a leg up sooooo....*Shrug*

Again the if the MCU does a movie it can go either way. I'm hoping it will be Rich and then Sam can show up later down the road.

[kevlon]

I'm a big fan of both, but I did sense that Sam got a much bigger push than Rich ever did. At one point Sam was everywhere, where all poor old Rich got was an appearance in secret avengers that lasted 2 issues.

[skyvolt2000]

Does it really matter?

It has always felt like Sam's ethnicity isn't as central to his character as it is to his other contemporaries Miles and Kamala. It almost feels like it was an afterthought pinned on at the last second.

When has Mile's race meant anything? In the books?

When he started his race was not bought up until his 3rd volume. No one knew he was black until his skin was shown by accident.

Kamala had it from day one but guys who like to set fire to her books take issue with her race and religion.

For fun-Amazon trade sales Sam's first series vs Rich's 2009 run

Sam Volume 1
#769 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Publishers > Marvel
#1667 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes

Nova, Vol. 1: Annihilation - Conquest
#2824 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Publishers > Marvel
#6711 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes

Nova Volume 2: Rookie Season
#2046 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Publishers > Marvel
#4933 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes

Nova Vol. 2: Knowhere (v. 2)
#6864 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Publishers > Marvel
#16502 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes

Nova Volume 3: Nova Corpse
#3157 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Publishers > Marvel
#7460 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes

Nova Vol. 3: Secret Invasion (v. 2)
#3207 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Publishers > Marvel
#7582 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes

Nova Volume 4: Original Sin
#3600 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Publishers > Marvel
#8575 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes

Nova Vol. 4: Nova Corps
#3341 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Publishers > Marvel
#7927 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes

Nova Volume 5: Axis
#2981 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Publishers > Marvel
#7028 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes

Nova Vol. 5: War of Kings
#3449 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Publishers > Marvel
#8184 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes

Nova Vol. 6: Homecoming
#2908 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Publishers > Marvel
#6872 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Graphic Novels > Superheroes

Nova - Volume 6: Realm of Kings
#7856 in Books > Comics & Graphic Novels > Publishers > Marvel

Of the 6 volumes-Sam beats Rich in sales 4 out of 6.

Now Kindle tells a different story.

Rich's first series volume 1 and Sam's 2016-2017 runs are VERY popular with TEENS. The above volumes trend in the same numbers-so it's a wash.

So if a case could be made using Amazon (as these are sales to actual PEOPLE not a store) Sam dominates and should have the film.
Now if I was playing for PROFIT. BOTH would be used as we saw with Black Panther-anything with him in it got BOOSTS including the failed spinoffs-whoa re still milking off that film. And I am sure the same is happening for Spiderverse gang.

I would go for both for the record.

[Anthony W]

Being cancel 5 times doesn't mean anything? Lol. Nova isn't only character I will say it about Blade, Moon Knight, Punisher, Dr. Strange, Captain Marvel etc. If Marvel keeps throw you out and solo isn't working maybe the fans don't want your book

This is Marvel comics in the year 2018 You really don't want to pull on that string....

boast Rich has rabid fan base so thirsty for him that they would be boost sale amazingly but wouldn't buy the co team book with him doesn't make sense.

It makes perfect sense, they are rabid. Rabid people are not rational. They didn't want to do anything that would help Sam. The whole thing kind of reminds me of the Hal Jordan/Kyle Rayner thing from awhile back. Unfortunately Marvel Cosmic is rather...limited compared to DC cosmic IMHO, don't @ me . Marvel cosmic just seems to be the three Gs, Guardians, Gems and Ghost Rider. There is a Nova Corps but Marvel doesn't seem to have enough space for them. Marvel space doesn't have enough space lol.

I like both characters just as a realist though the Nova concept isn't as strong some people are making it to be and it still needs a lot work. Rich isn't the sure thing being touted around by some of his fans and that is most annoy thing.

Anyways the dope thing about the next time Sam gets a book,he doesn't have to worry about a built in group of people hating him and thinking he is taking away spot from their character. He will have his champion fanbase and it will be all good. He can build organically from that point.

You're pinning the character's future prospects on a book that has to be relaunched? Remember how I told you not to pull on that string earlier in the post? This is why. Oh, by the way I read Champions it's a fun little book.

As I said before there is space for both characters and existence of each character when something isn't a establish sure thing means that character increase the chance of other character being used .Once again Spiderverse proves what my original point was in a modern setting a ready made origin can make for great movie. They could have easily put Peter Parker story who is the "better character" with "better stories" and is the more popular character but movie works because of unique angle and background new character bring to mythos.

At this point I'm so jaded I think it comes down to the fact that Rider will get the movie because Sam was created by Loeb. No way Feige wants to deal with a character created by the head of the TV division.

[Killerbee911]

You're pinning the character's future prospects on a book that has to be relaunched? Remember how I told you not to pull on that string earlier in the post? This is why. Oh, by the way I read Champions it's a fun little book.

Nah like I said I am realist,Comic fans are inbred in their habits ,I am not pinning hopes on anything I am not sure a Sam book could have strong pitch to stay alive in current market.He might a character better suited or better used on a team book like a Vision. All I was saying Sam first run he had deal with a decent amount of people he need to win over never giving him a real chance. All I am saying is the second real go around,None of the your cause of my favorite character being gone should be their and he has built in fan base of people who like the character.


Also Feige has Marvel best interest so I doubt he cares about that stuff,He is going to make the move best for long term success. He has already hinted at Kamala Khan is coming ,Don't be surprised If the Champions in the MCU is Peter Parker,Ms Marvel and Nova.

[mace11]

Unfortunately Marvel Cosmic is rather...limited compared to DC cosmic IMHO, don't @ me . Marvel cosmic just seems to be the three Gs, Guardians, Gems and Ghost Rider. There is a Nova Corps but Marvel doesn't seem to have enough space for them. Marvel space doesn't have enough space lol.

In the DC forum comic readers are saying marvel is putting out more cosmic stuff then dc.
They say the opposite of what you saying.
By the way marvel is putting out more cosmic books then dc.

[mace11]

Current space/cosmic books from dc and marvel.
DC

Ongoing series

The Green Lantern (2019)

Marvel

Ongoing series

Asgardians of the Galaxy

Guardians of the Galaxy (vol.5)

Events
Infinity Wars

Limited series
Cosmic Ghost Rider #1 (of 5)
Black Order #1 (of 5)

Upcoming
Cosmic Ghost Rider Destroys Marvel Universe

One-shots
Thanos Legacy #1
Silver Surfer: The Best Defense #1

[mace11]

Appearances in the 616 for sam and richard.
Richard Rider

397 Appearances of Richard Rider (Earth-616)
https://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Catego...6)/Appearances

30 Minor Appearances of Richard Rider (Earth-616)
https://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Catego...or_Appearances

For other Appearances go here.
https://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Richard_Rider

Samuel Alexander

231 Appearances of Samuel Alexander (Earth-616)
https://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Catego...6)/Appearances

33 Minor Appearances of Samuel Alexander (Earth-616)
https://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Catego...or_Appearances

For other Appearances go here.
https://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Sam_Alexander

[Anthony W]

Nah like I said I am realist,Comic fans are inbred in their habits ,I am not pinning hopes on anything I am not sure a Sam book could have strong pitch to stay alive in current market.He might a character better suited or better used on a team book like a Vision. All I was saying Sam first run he had deal with a decent amount of people he need to win over never giving him a real chance. All I am saying is the second real go around,None of the your cause of my favorite character being gone should be their and he has built in fan base of people who like the character.


Also Feige has Marvel best interest so I doubt he cares about that stuff,He is going to make the move best for long term success. He has already hinted at Kamala Khan is coming ,Don't be surprised If the Champions in the MCU is Peter Parker,Ms Marvel and Nova.

Doubt Feige cares? You are free to believe that. The way the MCU is being set up we might see a Young Avengers before we The Champions or a team that is a mix of both. I just doubt you are going to see the Sam Alexander version of Nova being used. But if you are right now power to you.

[Ichijinijisanji]

When has Mile's race meant anything? In the books?

When he started his race was not bought up until his 3rd volume. No one knew he was black until his skin was shown by accident.

Kamala had it from day one but guys who like to set fire to her books take issue with her race and religion.

For fun-Amazon trade sales Sam's first series vs Rich's 2009 run

of the 6 volumes-Sam beats Rich in sales 4 out of 6.

Now Kindle tells a different story.

Rich's first series volume 1 and Sam's 2016-2017 runs are VERY popular with TEENS. The above volumes trend in the same numbers-so it's a wash.

So if a case could be made using Amazon (as these are sales to actual PEOPLE not a store) Sam dominates and should have the film.
Now if I was playing for PROFIT. BOTH would be used as we saw with Black Panther-anything with him in it got BOOSTS including the failed spinoffs-whoa re still milking off that film. And I am sure the same is happening for Spiderverse gang.

I would go for both for the record.

Couldn't it simply also be that sam's books came more recently as the digital side of marvel has begun to grow compared to rich's making him part of era/continuity that'll do better with those sales?

[kevlon]

Appearances in the 616 for sam and richard.
Richard Rider


Samuel Alexander

Wow, Sam has been around for a fraction of the time Rich has but look at all those appearances. Marvel really were pushing Sam hard.

[DragonsChi]

Couldn't it simply also be that sam's books came more recently as the digital side of marvel has begun to grow compared to rich's making him part of era/continuity that'll do better with those sales?

The numbers aren't really stated in truthful light. He is also missing quiet a few collected editions with Rich. In total there are about 20-25 Collected Editions of Rich.(Some going by other titles than Nova)

But that is neither here nor there since his premise is flawed from the jump. Store sales show interest in any given character/book as they come out, making a truer depiction of how well that title has preformed. Amazon sales shows sales overtime in a character after the fact. Marvel shutdown all promotion of Rich in 2013 when Sam came, since then Sam has been in tv shows, video games, comics and toys. Not based on merit but do to an intentional choice to dissolve interest in Rich and to push Sam. That's 5-6 years of marketing For one version of the character. So naturally when a new reader see's Sam in any of the listed mediums they are going to pick up his title over Rich not under the premise that it's good but simply because they saw him in X and decided they want to learn more. To them they have no idea who Rich even is. The Amazon method also does not show if any of those readers were repeat buyers or that they liked it. It simply shows that someone bought the book.

[The Negative Zone]

I honestly highly doubt we'd get a Nova movie. I can see a Nova being a side character, but I'm unsure about a movie. We'll really have to see what future the MCU holds.

But hey here's a thought what if they replaced Jesse Alexander with Richard? Sam could be his kid.

[Ascended]

Wow, Sam has been around for a fraction of the time Rich has but look at all those appearances. Marvel really were pushing Sam hard.

They had to. Rich was finally becoming a player in the MU and was growing in popularity (even though his sales were declining) when Sam came in, so he had a lot of ground to cover and a lot of people to win over. And more importantly, he had to bring in new people, too; readers who're into more "Ultimate Spider-Man" than "Green Lantern."

For the record, I don't think comic sales mean a damn thing to Marvel Studios. If sales mattered to Kevin Fiege then we wouldn't have seen the Guardians, Ant-Man, or even Carol Danvers. If precedent and history mattered we'd have Pym and Mar-Vell instead of Lang and Carol. The source material is just that; the foundation, and everything else is up for interpretation. If a Nova movie happens, they'll use whoever the hell they (and the writers and director of course) think fits the story, and the MCU, best. And whatever they do will be infinitely more popular than any Nova comic has ever dared dream of being.

But I agree with Skyvolt; if it were up to me I'd use both.

[DragonsChi]

For the record, I don't think comic sales mean a damn thing to Marvel Studios. If sales mattered to Kevin Fiege then we wouldn't have seen the Guardians, Ant-Man, or even Carol Danvers. If precedent and history mattered we'd have Pym and Mar-Vell instead of Lang and Carol. The source material is just that; the foundation, and everything else is up for interpretation. If a Nova movie happens, they'll use whoever the hell they (and the writers and director of course) think fits the story, and the MCU, best. And whatever they do will be infinitely more popular than any Nova comic has ever dared dream of being.

I disagree. They play a role. At the time of the MCU Marvel major/core characters where all being licensed out to other companies. Thereby, leaving Marvel to work with what they had left over. So to build what could be considered the Core pillars of the Marvel Universe they worked with the next best thing in most instances. Guardians of the Galaxy had just been a very popular run through DnA making it the ideal stand for the Fantastic Four and so on. Carol Danvers is getting a push solely because she is sporting the companies name and they can't take it back now for political reasons. But each movie chosen can be proven to have a general interest at some point in Marvel's history or because a script and/or a notable director wanted to produce the film. If Marvel had the X-Men, Spider-Man, and the Fantastic Four we would not have a lot of the movies we have today or even the books.

If it were up to me I would start with Rich and bring in Sam in the third film or at the end of the Second.

If a movie is made, Rich needs to star in it at first for the sole purpose that he does not get wiped out of the stories altogether or turned into the lamer version of the franchise.