Thread Drift: Fans, Professionals and Online Decorum

[Dan Slott]

ow I choose to spend my time online is no less bizarre than the amount of time you spend "badgering" (your very own words) detractors online...

I honestly don't see you as a detractor.
With the volume of time you spend online sh*t-posting about this book, when you could be doing anything else, I see it as your hobby.
You're not a detractor, you're an internet troll.
You troll on these boards and others.
You do it at a far greater frequency and volume than I could ever respond to-- so feel free to have the last word.
Feel free to have many.
It-- IS-- a bizarre habit.
It's kinda f*cked up.
Whatever.

And I do spend a good deal of my time online having positive interactions with fans-- mainly on my twitter, FB, and instagram accounts.

You usually only see me here on CBR when I counter false assertions-- things that people say have happened in the book that haven't, pointing out some readers who say they haven't actually read the stories they're complaining about for themselves, or people who post incorrect or misleading accounts of the book's sales and/or performance.

Peg me as playing the "victim" card, but you're one of the guys who kinda caused this thread into being with false claims of me having a racist-y opinion. And you're spending a great deal of time defending a person who regularly called me a "rape apologist" online. And, surprise, both of you are regular crawlspace posters. Unbelievable, I know. It's a toxic kind of fandom that you keep promoting. I really wish you'd find something you enjoyed that you could spend time promoting instead of all the sh*t-posting and hating that you do.

[WebLurker]

Look, Metamorphosis,

As I have said before, I'm not a huge fan of Slot's online behavior as a whole, much less his interpretation of Spider-Man. But I do have to agree that he's being the more civil user at the moment. Maybe we should all just leave this argument (what is it even about now?) on the table and walk away. It's not doing anyone any good, I can't see how it's going to have any practical use, and is getting way out of hand. No matter how much the creative team in charge may be annoying us, at the end of the day, it's just a stupid comic book, (one that I'm skeptical will even have that much effect on the franchise as a whole).

It's a toxic kind of fandom that you keep promoting.

While I haven't had a chance to throughly examine the Crawlspace boards, as a Star Wars fan, I can say Spider-Man is not the most toxic fandom out there. To be honest, disgruntled fans venting and complaining on forums is pretty small potatoes (not excusing out of bounds behavior, but I've regularly seen a lot worse -- and disgruntled fans venting is an occupational hazard of successful franchises).

[Metamorphosis]

I honestly don't see you as a detractor.
With the volume of time you spend online sh*t-posting about this book, when you could be doing anything else, I see it as your hobby.
You're not a detractor, you're an internet troll.
You troll on these boards and others.
You do it at a far greater frequency and volume than I could ever respond to-- so feel free to have the last word.
Feel free to have many.
It-- IS-- a bizarre habit.
It's kinda f*cked up.
Whatever.

And I do spend a good deal of my time online having positive interactions with fans-- mainly on my twitter, FB, and instagram accounts.

You usually only see me here on CBR when I counter false assertions-- things that people say have happened in the book that haven't, pointing out some readers who say they haven't actually read the stories they're complaining about for themselves, or people who post incorrect or misleading accounts of the book's sales and/or performance.

Peg me as playing the "victim" card, but you're one of the guys who kinda caused this thread into being with false claims of me having a racist-y opinion. And you're spending a great deal of time defending a person who regularly called me a "rape apologist" online. And, surprise, both of you are regular crawlspace posters. Unbelievable, I know. It's a toxic kind of fandom that you keep promoting. I really wish you'd find something you enjoyed that you could spend time promoting instead of all the sh*t-posting and hating that you do.

And I don't even see you as a bully, just a wannabe bully. Not a very convincing one.

One who spends his own inordinate amount of his time online--berating, badgering and browbeating people. Dividing and degrading people that voice an opinion you don't like. Painting people with a very broad brush, singling out posters you deem troublemakers. Carrying insane grudges.

I speak for myself, not for any other poster, not for any other website. But when I floated the idea to you of burying the hatchet with SCS, you were the one that waved it off.

Why? I kinda think you must enjoy baiting people from your very limited position of power. What else could it be?

You've spent a lot of your own time demonizing fandom, but have proven that the "professional" can be anything but that and just as toxic. And you've spent a lot of effort in driving segments of fandom away partly with your antics.

And from here on out, I don't have anything else to say to you on the matter.

[boots]

While I haven't had a chance to throughly examine the Crawlspace boards, as a Star Wars fan, I can say Spider-Man is not the most toxic fandom out there. To be honest, disgruntled fans venting and complaining on forums is pretty small potatoes (not excusing out of bounds behavior, but I've regularly seen a lot worse -- and disgruntled fans venting is an occupational hazard of successful franchises).

wasn't there a female SW author who had to more or less "leave" the internet? i've heard similar stories across different groups. even the vitriol aimed at the latest ghostbusters cast makes me wonder about people

[Prof. Warren]

And I don't even see you as a bully, just a wannabe bully. Not a very convincing one.

One who spends his own inordinate amount of his time online--berating, badgering and browbeating people. Dividing and degrading people that voice an opinion you don't like. Painting people with a very broad brush, singling out posters you deem troublemakers. Carrying insane grudges.

I speak for myself, not for any other poster, not for any other website. But when I floated the idea to you of burying the hatchet with SCS, you were the one that waved it off.

Why? I kinda think you must enjoy baiting people from your very limited position of power. What else could it be?

You've spent a lot of your own time demonizing fandom, but have proven that the "professional" can be anything but that and just as toxic. And you've spent a lot of effort in driving segments of fandom away partly with your antics.

And from here on out, I don't have anything else to say to you on the matter.

Hahaha, this post is rich.

It's hilarious that the most divisive, belligerent, bullying poster on these boards sees himself as a wounded victim.

I've never once seen Slott "berating, badgering and browbeating people." Defending himself in a civil way and standing his ground? All the time.

"Berating, badgering and browbeating people," on the other hand, does describe the Metamorphosis/Cheesedique approach to a T.

As does "dividing and degrading people that voice an opinion you don't like."

As does "painting people with a very broad brush."

And as does "carrying insane grudges." Slott has every reason not to feel friendly towards people who make a hobby of berating him, day in and day out. That's not an insane grudge to have. It's a legitimate reaction that anyone would have towards people who spend their time attacking them. And even with all that, he's still civil.

People who relentlessly attack a comic book writer because they don't like that writer's approach to a character? Now that's insane.

It's also insane to attack someone and then act like the aggrieved party when that person actually acts to defend themselves.

Nothing wrong with disliking a writer's work. Not every writer is for everyone. But once you've read enough of that writer to know that their work doesn't appeal to you, it's better to let it go rather than to carry on a tiresome vendetta.

[Dan Slott]

But when I floated the idea to you of burying the hatchet with SCS, you were the one that waved it off.

I find a lot of your spin doesn't quite match up well with reality.
I didn't "wave off" your suggestion.
When you suggested I do this, I explained to you that in the past a representative from that site asked me to cooperate in a piece he was doing, and I helped out. I figured why not give them a second chance-- despite their harsh/insulting treatment of both myself and people I've worked with. And outside of a handful of "Hey, he was a good sport for doing this" comments, everything quickly snapped back to how it was.
As the saying goes, "Fool me once..."

[oldschool]

wasn't there a female SW author who had to more or less "leave" the internet? i've heard similar stories across different groups. even the vitriol aimed at the latest ghostbusters cast makes me wonder about people

You are correct on both counts. I realize this isn't a newsflash for anyone but the sad reality is that the anonymity of the internet has cause people's behavior to degenerate badly; it has also shone a spotlight on people that just want to stir things up and tear down creators; I can remember hanging around my LCS waaayyyy back before the Internet broke and discussing controversial storylines and creative teams that some of us disliked and there was none of the behavior I see regularly each time I log on to a random comic (or other sports/entertainment) page. None.

[RD!]

Enough is enough. There's too much wrong in the world, the issues raised in this thread don't rank up there.

I know that for me at least, this forum is a chance to unwind, let off steam and talk about Spider-Man -- something I can't do as often in my offline life. It's probably the same for all of you. It's ok not to like Slott's work - I myself am not keen on some points of it -- but there's no need to dislike the guy. Conversely, Slott you have written the most consistently successful comic if the past decade. Two anniversary issues, over 100 regular issues. You've got the dream job of every person on this board. Be proud of that, you can't please everyone but you certainly seem to please a lot of people. Let bygones be bygones.

We are all fans of Peter Parker so we must relate to him on some level. Peter certainly wouldn't like this arguing or allegations/misinterpretations of bullying. Friendly debate on our favourite book =ok. Arguing = not ok.

[Metamorphosis]

Hahaha, this post is rich.

It's hilarious that the most divisive, belligerent, bullying poster on these boards sees himself as a wounded victim.

I've never once seen Slott "berating, badgering and browbeating people." Defending himself in a civil way and standing his ground? All the time.

"Berating, badgering and browbeating people," on the other hand, does describe the Metamorphosis/Cheesedique approach to a T.

As does "dividing and degrading people that voice an opinion you don't like."

As does "painting people with a very broad brush."

And as does "carrying insane grudges." Slott has every reason not to feel friendly towards people who make a hobby of berating him, day in and day out. That's not an insane grudge to have. It's a legitimate reaction that anyone would have towards people who spend their time attacking them. And even with all that, he's still civil.

People who relentlessly attack a comic book writer because they don't like that writer's approach to a character? Now that's insane.

It's also insane to attack someone and then act like the aggrieved party when that person actually acts to defend themselves.

Nothing wrong with disliking a writer's work. Not every writer is for everyone. But once you've read enough of that writer to know that their work doesn't appeal to you, it's better to let it go rather than to carry on a tiresome vendetta.

Yeah, you'll have to excuse me if I don't share your clearly unbiased, totally objective view of things here Prof. Especially when you've had more than your own share of axes to grind with people around these parts.

[Prof. Warren]

Yeah, you'll have to excuse me if I don't share your clearly unbiased, totally objective view of things here Prof. Especially when you've had more than your own share of axes to grind with people around these parts.

Hold on. Everybody who HASN'T waged a relentless war on these boards with a creator, taking it well into crazy town over and over even when given EVERY opportunity to stop, please take one step forward.

Oh!...not so fast, Metamorphosis!

I've got no axes to grind. But I do call 'em as I see 'em. And if you were able to have even an ounce of self-reflection, your behavior on these boards would be quite different, I'm sure.

[Metamorphosis]

You do it at a far greater frequency and volume than I could ever respond to-- so feel free to have the last word.

..Wait for it..

I find a lot of your spin doesn't quite match up well with reality.
I didn't "wave off" your suggestion.
When you suggested I do this, I explained.....

Hold on. Everybody who HASN'T waged a relentless war on these boards with a creator, taking it well into crazy town over and over even when given EVERY opportunity to stop, please take one step forward.

Oh!...not so fast, Metamorphosis!

I've got no axes to grind. But I do call 'em as I see 'em. And if you were able to have even an ounce of self-reflection, your behavior on these boards would be quite different, I'm sure.

But is it "crazy town banana pants" level of crazy?

Guess you could say I'm calling them as I see 'em as well, Prof Warren; you just don't like how I'm calling it. That's fair. But as I watch you raking me over the coals here based on your perception of my behavior, I can't help but wonder when that "ounce of self-reflection" comes into play regarding your own often very rude comments to me and other people here.

People in glass houses, etc.

[Dan Slott]

And from here on out, I don't have anything else to say to you on the matter.

...wait for it...

People in glass houses...

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[Lee]

Guess you could say I'm calling them as I see 'em as well, Prof Warren; you just don't like how I'm calling it. That's fair. But as I watch you raking me over the coals here based on your perception of my behavior, I can't help but wonder when that "ounce of self-reflection" comes into play regarding your own often very rude comments to me and other people here.

People in glass houses, etc.

Several people have suggested that you take a step back and re-evaluate your attitude in this thread alone. Why do you think that is?

[Metamorphosis]

Several people have suggested that you take a step back and re-evaluate your attitude in this thread alone. Why do you think that is?

Getting a lot of questions from you lately Lee--you seem to have formed your own opinion on the matter, so why do you think it is?

It does seem here that people are lot less willing to overlook what they deem "bad behavior" when they don't like the message that comes with it.

[Bor]

Getting a lot of questions from you lately Lee--you seem to have formed your own opinion on the matter, so why do you think it is?

It does seem here that people are lot less willing to overlook what they deem "bad behavior" when they don't like the message that comes with it.

My god man please stop. I know I have been one of the most vocal oppenents of your views in this thread but at this point even I am embarrassed on your behalf. If you werent so busy alinating everyone here you might actually see how rude you are being towards pretty much every single poster. You make hyberbole statements like "1000s of posters" and when corrected you ignore it and instead provide even more rudeness. You say its something you are working on changing but it seems quite clear you are not working that hard.