LGBT+ Marvel Characters Discussion

[Kieran_Frost]

Woah, woah, woah!!!! I leave for a day and we all start ragging on one of the most prominent LGBT star of Marvel comics??? Shame on you!!! Let's keep this thread positive, as it's an appreciation thread. By all means, say you don't want Daken with Northstar, but let's keep the comments away from completely slagging off the character. That's not appreciating.

[NexusTenebrare]

I don't mind Daken actually. I find him an interesting enough character and I really like him when he's written as a highly intelligent subtle manipulator.
I wouldn't wish him on my favorite heroes, but that's simply because he is afterall a villain. And not a terrible nice one.

It doesn't help that his pheromones carry some uncomfortable implications. He uses his power to toy with people's emotions, including for the purpose of seduction. There's a bit of a rape vibe to that. (And even aside from the pheromones, he lies to people to get them in bed, which is scummy, morally reprehensible behaviour.) And this aspect is made worse when you realize he's never - never - actually going to suffer any consequences for it. He'll always get away with being, in effect, a rapist. The one exception was Williams' run, when he found out the guy he'd seduced was actually way more powerful and had been playing him all along.

Actually he also tried his little pheromone trick on Hulkling and the latter being immune gave him a resounding arse kicking.

I actually find iceman kissing iceman to be hilarious

As a fan of Iceman, I find it insulting. Once more reduced to a joke.

[Kieran_Frost]

Here's a question: which LGBT characters would you like to see get their own solo titles, be it a one-shot, limited series or ongoing?

I'd take:
- a Herc solo series, where his main romance is male for once
- a Ms America Chavez limited series (build up to a solo series)
- an Indra one-shot (where he's outed) and starts dating Anole

I am curious as to why you think Scott would be so accepting?

He accepts everything about Emma, the good and the bad. I see no reason to imply he's care about this anymore than he cared about her villainous past. When you truly love someone, you love them for who they are, and Scott LOVED Emma, more than anyone.

Prodigy needs to get some focus. A mini series where he could show off his skills would be nice. He also needs some weapons. Maybe a stick.

Prodigy is a weapon. He's a master of martial arts. He doesn't need a weapon anymore than Kitty Pryde or Iron Fist.

I wish all funerals involved all former lovers identifying themselves

I like the theory... but then we end up with MONSTROCITIES like Sentry/Rogue. Worst. Funeral. EVER!!!

If it helps, I could swear most of the faces on those women are male.

Ohhhhhh, SNAP!!! Someone call the hospital, 'cos those she-men just got BURNT!!!!

[klinton]

Woah, woah, woah!!!! I leave for a day and we all start ragging on one of the most prominent LGBT star of Marvel comics??? Shame on you!!! Let's keep this thread positive, as it's an appreciation thread. By all means, say you don't want Daken with Northstar, but let's keep the comments away from completely slagging off the character. That's not appreciating.

In all honesty, it's a sad day if the offensive 80's trope of 'manipulative, evil gay man' is held up as 'one of the most prominent' gay characters in Marvel Comics.

I don't think calling out the fact that he's (consistently) portrayed as pure evil speaks to a lack of appreciation for gay characters but more a demand for more relevant ones.

[Kieran_Frost]

Good. He should cheat. Kyle is a dull character. Northstar needs excitement and it doesn't get more exciting than Daken

I agree as well. Boring non-character whose only purpose was to get Northstar in that rushed wedding. Just fuel for Marvel PR machine. 'Look at us, we've got a gay marriage! Aren't we progressive?'

Yeah I agree. Kyle serves only one purpose and that's someone for northstar to marry. Northstar would have crazy chemistry with Daken as well

but on the other hand I realize how problematic that would be given 1) it'd break up Marvel's first gay marriage that they put massive efforts into publicizing and 2) there are already too many instances of "angry black men" stereotyped villainous characters in comics and we really shouldn't add to that.

I agree with all these points; and isn't THAT confusing I do think Kyle has VERY limited story potential. Honestly, making him a superhero would be the best choice (others gain powers as adults, so could he). I like that Marvel's first gay wedding was Northstar's (as mainstream comic's first LGBT character). But Kyle is so... he has no history. He had no personality till AFTER they were already engaged. He had no last name for the same length of time. BUT I also agree I don't really want to see the first LGBT Marvel marriage to end in divorce. That doesn't mean it can't happen, but I'd rather it didn't. BUT I also (crazy I know) agree that Northstar/Kyle will never become "the" LGBT couple, while Kyle is part of it. He just isn't one half of a power couple.

So either a) kill him off. So the first LGBT marriage doesn't end in divorce, but tragedy (it's better than divorce). b) don't kill them off, and bring in Ult. Northstar to date Daken. c) make Kyle a superhero (Freedom Ring's ring??? maybe). And try and give him more substance, and more history and personality NOT linked to Northstar. Make him Kyle Jinadu, not "Northstar's husband"

[Kieran_Frost]

QUESTIONS:
a) do you like Daken?
b) did you read Dark Wolverine by Liu/Way?

In all honesty, it's a sad day if the offensive 80's trope of 'manipulative, evil gay man' is held up as 'one of the most prominent' gay characters in Marvel Comics.

I would agree with this IF this was the only type of LGBT character we see (and surely the trope is about bisexuals, not gay men?). But Daken (and Daken-esq characters) are not the only major LGBT characters, so the trope holds no power. A manipulative, villainous mastermind is merely one type of character. It's silly to exclude any type of character from use, because of sexuality.

I would say the 10 most prominent LGBT characters at Marvel are: Northstar, Daken, Wiccan, Hulkling, Mystique, Loki, Rictor, Shatterstar, Moondragon and Anole. While "manipulative anti-hero" is a common trait, it's not the sole type being shown.

[klinton]

QUESTIONS:
a) do you like Daken?
b) did you read Dark Wolverine by Liu/Way?


I would agree with this IF this was the only type of LGBT character we see (and surely the trope is about bisexuals, not gay men?). But Daken (and Daken-esq characters) are not the only major LGBT characters, so the trope holds no power. A manipulative, villainous mastermind is merely one type of character. It's silly to exclude any type of character from use, because of sexuality.

A) not at all.
B) yes, on your recomendation actually.

While I'll agree with your sentiment here, I wasn't actually contesting his existence. Rotting away in his (well deserved) z-list status as a plot device for Logan's story, I have no issues with him. It was the 'prominent example of LBTG in the Marvel Universe' comment that I was objecting to. He's anything but that.

Different strokes and all that. I probably wouldn't have dissparaged the guy at all (he's easily ignored in the Marvel U, after all), save for the 'they should break up Northstar and Kyle so he can date Daken' silliness I was reading. That kinda irked me. /shrug.

[legion_quest]

So either a) kill him off. So the first LGBT marriage doesn't end in divorce, but tragedy (it's better than divorce). b) don't kill them off, and bring in Ult. Northstar to date Daken. c) make Kyle a superhero (Freedom Ring's ring??? maybe). And try and give him more substance, and more history and personality NOT linked to Northstar. Make him Kyle Jinadu, not "Northstar's husband"

I just giggled for several minutes at the idea of the gay character getting powers from a 'mighty ring'

[NexusTenebrare]

Just a thought.
I really hope the artist didn't think 'Hm, should get a gay kiss in here.' and not knowing of Kyle just decided to pair up two random male LGBT characters.

[Kieran_Frost]

QUESTIONS:
a) do you like Daken?
b) did you read Dark Wolverine by Liu/Way?

a) LOVE HIM!
b) Yes, loved that run!!!

While I'll agree with your sentiment here, I wasn't actually contesting his existence. Rotting away in his (well deserved) z-list status as a plot device for Logan's story, I have no issues with him. It was the 'prominent example of LBTG in the Marvel Universe' comment that I was objecting to. He's anything but that.

You object to him being prominent because of your dislike, or because you don't agree he's prominent? I would massively disagree about the "he's just evil". How did you get that from Liu/Way? They did not write him in such a way, he was far more complex than that.

I just giggled for several minutes at the idea of the gay character getting powers from a 'mighty ring'

It's all fun and games till someone gets impaled 50 times with the one-eyed monsters...

[Silvermoth]

I just giggled for several minutes at the idea of the gay character getting powers from a 'mighty ring'

Ha!

Don't we all?

[klinton]

You object to him being prominent because of your dislike, or because you don't agree he's prominent? I would massively disagree about the "he's just evil". How did you get that from Liu/Way? They did not write him in such a way, he was far more complex than that.

A little of both? I dissagree that he's at all prominent and with the idea that he should be.

He was written with a lot of insecure baggage, sure. But, the thing is, that doesn't much excuse the nature of his person. It's not my cup of tea, that sort of character.

But, I swear I didn't set out to bash all up and down your favorite character here. If we can agree that he has no place in discussions about Jean-Paul and Kyle's relationship (I like the nice guys in gushy relationships, mmmk?), I'm perfectly okay with people loving on the guy (I mean, one of my own all time favorite Marvel characters is a certain 'genocidal loon', after all...hahaha) and more than willing to concede this discussion.

[Kieran_Frost]

A little of both? I dissagree that he's at all prominent and with the idea that he should be.

He's the only LGBT solo star to have more than one series. And his combine solo series make him also the LGBT solo star with the most issues (so the longest running). Both make him uber prominent.

He was written with a lot of insecure baggage, sure. But, the thing is, that doesn't much excuse the nature of his person. It's not my cup of tea, that sort of character.

He's also someone who's been tortured (and implied raped?) since a child. He has a lot of reason to see darkness more than anything else.

But, I swear I didn't set out to bash all up and down your favorite character here. If we can agree that he has no place in discussions about Jean-Paul and Kyle's relationship (I like the nice guys in gushy relationships, mmmk?), I'm perfectly okay with people loving on the guy (I mean, one of my own all time favorite Marvel characters is a certain 'genocidal loon', after all...hahaha) and more than willing to concede this discussion.

DEAL!!! Daken can be with Loki (come on, how fun would Daken be in Loki: Agent of Asgard) and we can keep Marvel's first LGBT marriage together. Though I do think Kyle should get Freedom Ring's ring ()

[klinton]

DEAL!!! Daken can be with Loki (come on, how fun would Daken be in Loki: Agent of Asgard) and we can keep Marvel's first LGBT marriage together. Though I do think Kyle should get Freedom Ring's ring ()

I dunno, I like the fact that Kyle's not a 'hero' (although, he's def heroic in nature!). While it limits his use in the comics (relegating him to supporting cast forevermore), it just seems 'right'.

I wouldn't hate it or protest it or anything though. I'm just not 'super keen' on the idea.

And sure, you are more than welcome to a Daken and Loki relationship. I care nothing about either character, and it would keep Loki occupied so he doesn't play too heavy in Angela's new book (who, I feel, needs a girlfirend to love on, btw).

[legion_quest]

Loki can't get with Daken, he's saving himself for Billy.

Maybe Teddy can go with a bad boy on the rebound