Batman #86 preview and discussion (spoilers!)

[dietrich]

This was boring compared to the crack-fest daytime soap that was King's Batman. Batman didn't even go topless. Not once. Smh

At least Bruce is human again and is able to throw Bataranges without help. So it'll do.

[BruceWayneJr.]

It was like a dry piece of turkey between two slices of white bread but idk we'll see.

Hahaha, well said. I like turkey, but not if it beats Deathstroke off panel!

[willtupper]

You ever read a forum post wrong?

Like, really, really, really wrong?

I just did.

And it made me laugh. A lot.

Hahaha, well said. I like turkey, but not if it beats Deathstroke off panel!

[phonogram12]

Hahaha, well said. I like turkey, but not if it beats Deathstroke off panel!

I mean, you'd think for such a generic issue, they'd at least offer a generic fight.

[Scott Taylor]

Batman is still conscious and coherent
Deathstroke is out cold

Batman's record against slade is pretty firmly solid right now after this issue

I'm not giving Batman the win here. For all we know, there was an earthquake and a wall fell on them both. Or a flock of turkeys got loose somehow and trampled Slade.

[maninthemacintosh1606]

Not great but good... Following the King run it almost feels great.

[David Walton]

I'm not giving Batman the win here. For all we know, there was an earthquake and a wall fell on them both. Or a flock of turkeys got loose somehow and trampled Slade.

I guess it depends on how you're scoring things: did Ra's al Ghul get credit for the scorpion that stung Batman during their shirtless desert duel?

[seusilva]

The idea of Bruce working to Gotham without the mask, modernizing the city, etc, didn't happen during the Court of Owls arc too? I even remember a scene with a big dinner with the rich people from the city, the mayor.

[millernumber1]

The idea of Bruce working to Gotham without the mask, modernizing the city, etc, didn't happen during the Court of Owls arc too? I even remember a scene with a big dinner with the rich people from the city, the mayor.

You are not wrong.

[Scott Taylor]

I guess it depends on how you're scoring things: did Ra's al Ghul get credit for the scorpion that stung Batman during their shirtless desert duel?

The environment should count as neutral, so no credit given for that win! Its like being in WW2 and getting shot at for crossing over into Switzerland.

[David Walton]

The environment should count as neutral, so no credit given for that win! Its like being in WW2 and getting shot at for crossing over into Switzerland.

Agreed. But poor Ra's! Been around for so long and so few actual victories. I mean, historically, his winning stratagem has been to wait for his enemies to die of old age...

[millernumber1]

Agreed. But poor Ra's! Been around for so long and so few actual victories. I mean, historically, his winning stratagem has been to wait for his enemies to die of old age...

The way comics work is so warping to our understanding of characters like Ra's or Vandal Savage. Realistically, they shouldn't lose to Batman as much as they do, in as short a timespan as they do, but because of the sliding timescale and refusal to ever really age their characters, they end up being more and more incompetent. But the same can be said for the heroes. It's why I agree with Shamus Young that Batman is a bent story: https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=27382

[David Walton]

The way comics work is so warping to our understanding of characters like Ra's or Vandal Savage. Realistically, they shouldn't lose to Batman as much as they do, in as short a timespan as they do, but because of the sliding timescale and refusal to ever really age their characters, they end up being more and more incompetent. But the same can be said for the heroes. It's why I agree with Shamus Young that Batman is a bent story: https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=27382

I tend to think there are psychological explanations for why they lose baked into their DNA. For one thing, Ra's and Vandal both tend to put too much value on their experience. The price they've paid for their accumulated knowledge is flexibility, something which Batman has in abundance. There is also the possibility that deep down, they don't want to 'win,' each for their various reasons. Vandal thrives on the challenge. (There's a great JL:TAS two-parter where Ra's kills all the heroes and then helps Superman go back in time and undo his victory because the isolation has driven him mad--or perhaps sane, as it were). Ra's knows he's never going to see his life's work completed and only trusts Batman to finish what he began. On some level, he's always going to nurse the secret hope that Batman will come around, because as he sees it, that's his only true hope.

[Darkspellmaster]

I tend to think there are psychological explanations for why they lose baked into their DNA. For one thing, Ra's and Vandal both tend to put too much value on their experience. The price they've paid for their accumulated knowledge is flexibility, something which Batman has in abundance. There is also the possibility that deep down, they don't want to 'win,' each for their various reasons. Vandal thrives on the challenge. (There's a great JL:TAS two-parter where Ra's kills all the heroes and then helps Superman go back in time and undo his victory because the isolation has driven him mad--or perhaps sane, as it were). Ra's knows he's never going to see his life's work completed and only trusts Batman to finish what he began. On some level, he's always going to nurse the secret hope that Batman will come around, because as he sees it, that's his only true hope.

This is something that I don't think too many writers realize that. That's why I think Vandal and Ra's need to be limited in how often they use him. I liked Ty's run in Detective. I may start up with this.

[Scott Taylor]

Batman's advantage over people like Vandal Savage and Ra's is his mortality. A thing about immortals is that they are kind of "stuck in time" at the moment they become immortal. Without any risk, the stakes are lower for them.

It could be worse. The Claudia character in "Interview with a Vampire" went insane due to her immortality, because she was cursed to be an eternal child.

Edward of Twilight fame became a vampire at age 17, at the cusp of adulthood but not quite there. That's the reason he was hanging around at the high school even though he was over 100 years old. Talk about a curse!

Savage and Ra's remind me of the Jacob Marley character in Scrooge. Cursed trying to effect the world around them but hampered due to their own state of being.