Batwoman (2019)

[Frontier]

It's likely that they will never bring Kate back. She's been discarded and is no longer relevant. If they cared about Kate, they would have recast from the beginning. All the creatives care about is the Bat connection. Who is in the suit doesn't matter as long as they can call her Batwoman and steal the rogues and iconography of the Bat characters to fuel their melodrama.

Stop thinking these creatives give two thoughts to Kate Kane.

Honestly at this point it doesn't seem like they care about the Kane family at all when you look at how they've treated Kate and Jacob.

[90'sCartoonMan]

It's likely that they will never bring Kate back. She's been discarded and is no longer relevant. If they cared about Kate, they would have recast from the beginning. All the creatives care about is the Bat connection. Who is in the suit doesn't matter as long as they can call her Batwoman and steal the rogues and iconography of the Bat characters to fuel their melodrama.

Stop thinking these creatives give two thoughts to Kate Kane.

The problem is, they had so many opportunities to give Kate a definitive end. She could've died in the plane crash. She could've become Cersei permanently. She could've been killed or seriously disabled in the finale. But no, the season ends and Kate not only has all her memories back, but she is fully capable of being a hero and is out there picking up an unresolved plot from season one. It's hard for us as an audience to move on from Kate if they're not going to give her story true resolution.

[Frontier]

The problem is, they had so many opportunities to give Kate a definitive end. She could've died in the plane crash. She could've become Cersei permanently. She could've been killed or seriously disabled in the finale. But no, the season ends and Kate not only has all her memories back, but she is fully capable of being a hero and is out there picking up an unresolved plot from season one. It's hard for us as an audience to move on from Kate if they're not going to give her story true resolution.

At the very least I think Kate should probably train Ryan after they make it clear Ryan couldn't actually beat her in a fight.

[AnakinFlair]

It's likely that they will never bring Kate back. She's been discarded and is no longer relevant. If they cared about Kate, they would have recast from the beginning. All the creatives care about is the Bat connection. Who is in the suit doesn't matter as long as they can call her Batwoman and steal the rogues and iconography of the Bat characters to fuel their melodrama.

Stop thinking these creatives give two thoughts to Kate Kane.

It may not matter to them, but it matters to me.

I wanted to give the writers the benefit of the doubt. I loosely followed this season to see where it would go, and when or if they would bring Kate back. And when they finally did that, I paid closer attention to see what they would do with her.

I don't know why. The Arrowverse writers have been disappointing me since Arrow Season 3 when they dropped the ball on Thea and did a fairly mediocre take on Ra's al Ghul. And they only got worse from there, on EVERY show.

This show still feels like badly written fan fiction, up to and including the Mary Sue that is Ryan Wilder. I get some people like her, and good for them for finding something in this to latch on to. But when you can't even give your hero one clean win over her brainwashed predecessor, and then have said predecessor still gladly turn over the mantle and the city to her... you devalue BOTH characters.

At this point, I'm hoping that maybe Titan's season 4 will bring in Wallis Day as Batwoman for a reboot of the character. In the meantime, at least there is still Superman and Lois.

[Guy1]

At the very least I think Kate should probably train Ryan after they make it clear Ryan couldn't actually beat her in a fight.

Go for it Kate!

[Frontier]

It may not matter to them, but it matters to me.

I wanted to give the writers the benefit of the doubt. I loosely followed this season to see where it would go, and when or if they would bring Kate back. And when they finally did that, I paid closer attention to see what they would do with her.

I don't know why. The Arrowverse writers have been disappointing me since Arrow Season 3 when they dropped the ball on Thea and did a fairly mediocre take on Ra's al Ghul. And they only got worse from there, on EVERY show.

This show still feels like badly written fan fiction, up to and including the Mary Sue that is Ryan Wilder. I get some people like her, and good for them for finding something in this to latch on to. But when you can't even give your hero one clean win over her brainwashed predecessor, and then have said predecessor still gladly turn over the mantle and the city to her... you devalue BOTH characters.

At this point, I'm hoping that maybe Titan's season 4 will bring in Wallis Day as Batwoman for a reboot of the character. In the meantime, at least there is still Superman and Lois.

Let's be fair though, people probably would have complained hard if she definitively beat Kate/Circe like they complained about Supergirl beating Superman.

I don't think Ryan's a Mary Sue because she has actual character flaws (how long she holds grudges/grievances being one of them and how she might be too opinionated/passionate for her own good).

[Chris Lang]

The writing has been hit and miss, but I think I liked Season 2 better than Season 1 (which really spun its wheels a lot of the time).

And I LOVED the use of "Sirens (Follow Me Down)" by Mavenne in the finale. Say what you will about the story quality, but they sure picked some great songs to use in the show.

[marvelprince]

The problem is, they had so many opportunities to give Kate a definitive end. She could've died in the plane crash. She could've become Cersei permanently. She could've been killed or seriously disabled in the finale. But no, the season ends and Kate not only has all her memories back, but she is fully capable of being a hero and is out there picking up an unresolved plot from season one. It's hard for us as an audience to move on from Kate if they're not going to give her story true resolution.

Yeah, I would've hated if they had gone with any of those routes. I understand fans of Kate not being happy, but accepting that she can't come back to the mantle since they've invested in a new lead ending with her riding off into the sunset with a new mission is the best way to leave her story. It wouldn't have made sense for her to just outright not be mentioned at all and it would've been disrespectful to just kill her offscreen/turn her into a villain. And it leaves the door open for her to return to either aid/train/replace Ryan should the need arise.

[marvelprince]

The writing has been hit and miss, but I think I liked Season 2 better than Season 1 (which really spun its wheels a lot of the time).

And I LOVED the use of "Sirens (Follow Me Down)" by Mavenne in the finale. Say what you will about the story quality, but they sure picked some great songs to use in the show.

Same. Hopefully with the pandemic not as much an issue, plus not having to deal with lingering Kate and Kane family cast Season 3 can go all out.

[Frontier]

Yeah, I would've hated if they had gone with any of those routes. I understand fans of Kate not being happy, but accepting that she can't come back to the mantle since they've invested in a new lead ending with her riding off into the sunset with a new mission is the best way to leave her story. It wouldn't have made sense for her to just outright not be mentioned at all and it would've been disrespectful to just kill her offscreen/turn her into a villain. And it leaves the door open for her to return to either aid/train/replace Ryan should the need arise.

I knew they weren't going to write Ryan off but I felt like, if they were actually going to bring Kate back, they needed to do more with her and her family than they ended up doing. Because I don't think they were as respectful to the Kane family by the end as they could've been.

She probably should have stuck around and trained Ryan in my opinion.

Same. Hopefully with the pandemic not as much an issue, plus not having to deal with lingering Kate and Kane family cast Season 3 can go all out.

There will always be Alice.

[Chris Lang]

Yeah, I would've hated if they had gone with any of those routes. I understand fans of Kate not being happy, but accepting that she can't come back to the mantle since they've invested in a new lead ending with her riding off into the sunset with a new mission is the best way to leave her story. It wouldn't have made sense for her to just outright not be mentioned at all and it would've been disrespectful to just kill her offscreen/turn her into a villain. And it leaves the door open for her to return to either aid/train/replace Ryan should the need arise.

Indeed. Also, it makes sense for Kate to leave Gotham to find Bruce, since if Bruce were still in Gotham he would have probably turned up a long time ago. It also leaves the door open for Kate to return in guest appearances whenever she might be needed.

All in all, I liked the character development of Ryan, showing she's a very different person from Kate, with a very different background and different reasons for assuming the identity of Batwoman.

As I said, Season 1 felt like it was spinning its wheels a lot of the time (the whole Alice storyline seemed to be in a rut for a while), but Season 2 had better pacing. I think it helped having Safiyah and her island be the emphasis on the first half, and Black Mask, Tavaroff, and company be the emphasis of the second half helped.

The Buffy formula of one season-long Big Bad can sometimes lead to what TV Tropes calls Arc Fatigue, and it looks like a lot of showrunners are aware of that these days and trying to make things better by having one Big Bad for the first part of a season, and another for the second part of it. It worked out pretty well on Agents of SHIELD, though so far the CW shows have had mixed results with it.

Unanswered questions from the Season 2 finale which may be answered in Season 3:

Is Safiyah still lying on that beach? What will happen when/if someone runs across her?

How DOES Alice know about Ryan's birth mother?

[KabutoRyder]

Robin Givens is joining the cast....
https://www.superherohype.com/tv/500...woman-season-3

Givens is joining the Batwoman cast as Jada Jet, a powerful CEO who runs her own company, Jet Industries. Jada is described as “passionate and hard-working,” who also “worked her way through life’s ups and downs to climb her way to the top.” In spite of her success, Jada has a “deep past” that once compelled her to give up her first-born child. Regardless, she remains very protective of her “impetuous” son. Jada may have a good heart, but she “will do whatever it takes to protect her family.”

[Frontier]

Robin Givens is joining the cast....
https://www.superherohype.com/tv/500...woman-season-3

So..Ryan's biological mom?

Who would have thought that the relateable, down-to-Earth, Batwoman would unknowingly also come from money?

Will her half-brother be a homicidal nutjob too?

[Captain Craig]

This is the obvious first guess of course. Maybe she just knows something on the condition or whereabouts of Ryan's mom?

[AnakinFlair]

So..Ryan's biological mom?

Who would have thought that the relateable, down-to-Earth, Batwoman would unknowingly also come from money?

Will her half-brother be a homicidal nutjob too?

At this point, I'm half expecting for them to say that Ryan is a secret love child of a Wayne, so they can justify still using Wayne Towers.