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  1. #76
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    Yeah! X-Men Gold is in the top three. X-Men Gold 30 is the top seller. That's excellent.

    X-Men Blue sales went down after the return of the fake O5, not surprising though.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpmst17 View Post
    i'm sure the reason for these sales are the fact that there is too many x-books available. there are currently 5 team books right now, as well as a bunch of wolverine books. it's just over saturation. start cutting back and see where the sales go
    I agree with you.

    There are just too many X-books around and it's confusing in terms of continuity.
    One X-writer doesn't know what the other is writing.

    I would think there are only 4 X-teams.

    X-Men Gold
    X-Men Blue
    X-Men Red
    Astonishing X-Men (I hope they can rename this to X-Men 'color' to be more consistent with the rest).

    New Mutants dead souls is really just a very short mini and will be forgotten quickly after its finale.

  3. #78
    Mighty Member jpmst17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalsrix View Post
    I agree with you.

    There are just too many X-books around and it's confusing in terms of continuity.
    One X-writer doesn't know what the other is writing.

    I would think there are only 4 X-teams.

    X-Men Gold
    X-Men Blue
    X-Men Red
    Astonishing X-Men (I hope they can rename this to X-Men 'color' to be more consistent with the rest).

    New Mutants dead souls is really just a very short mini and will be forgotten quickly after its finale.
    i was counting weapon x as a team book too

  4. #79
    Mighty Member jpmst17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ButterRum View Post
    When will digital sales count?



    That was in the 90s when people actually went to the store to buy newspapers. Different times back then.

    But .... do you have a source for that? That's a crazy number ...

    Anyways these figures can't be surprising for Marvel considering they shafted the franchise in favor of the Avengers.
    sure. according to this site i was off by 6 million copies.

    https://www.zapkapowcomics.com/top-1...ng-comic-books

  5. #80
    Incredible Member DearMachine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    TBF, five years ago DC was coming off another reboot which meant that most continuity from before 2011 was thrown out, so there'd naturally be less to 'catch up' with on Batman than there'd be for X-Men which has kept the same continuity since the 60s. Tim Drake's Robin series, Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain's Batgirl series, everything Barbara Gordon ever did as Oracle were washed away as if the characters had never existed in the first place.
    This is a valid point. The New 52 did simplify continuity a lot, and restore some characters to more classic states. I was sad about the Batgirls and Oracle.

    Even so, I sometimes wonder if X-Men would benefit from a very soft reset. I'm not proposing washing away continuity or eliminating characters, but rather writing stories that maybe rely less on knowing a character's history, and focus more on the core of who the X-Men are (what Westworld would call their keystones). I'll give you an example. X-Men Gold #31 relies heavily on the reader's knowledge of history. Unless you know about Rachel as a hound and, to a lesser degree, the rest of Days of Future Past, the story is opaque. It also does a cheap trick, where it pretends at first to be from Kitty's perspective, but is really Rachel's delusion. Compare that to Iceman, where it touches lightly on aspects of Bobby's history but doesn't rely on them and tells you everything you need to know about him to follow the story.

    I know the obvious counterargument is that Gold is outselling the rest of the books, but I don't think it would do worse with a more new reader friendly approach that still respected history.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpmst17 View Post
    sure. according to this site i was off by 6 million copies.

    https://www.zapkapowcomics.com/top-1...ng-comic-books
    Yeah, but I don't think those 7 million copies were a sign of much more than the rampant speculation in the 90s. I'm sure some collectors picked up hoarder-level numbers of all five covers in the hopes that they would get rich off them in the future. There is probably some dude with a thousand copies in his attic, mournfully regretting his choices.
    Last edited by DearMachine; 07-10-2018 at 04:41 AM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coin Biter View Post
    Attention spans aren’t the problem. A Song of Ice and Fire is a publishing phenomenon, and the books in that series are enormously complex/require detailed attention to continuity. The TV adaptation is less complex, but still requires significant attention to detail. Hell, the MCU itself suggests an attention to continuity which is pretty unusual for a cinematic franchise.

    The problem with the X-Men is not its complexity, although I have to say with the consistent relaunches, limited series, and inconsistent attitude to its own continuity it is a hell of a lot more confusing even than a franchise that is predominantly based on IP that is 30-50 plus years old has any right to be. The problem is that it’s tied to a publishing industry which is ideally geared towards squeezing the maximum amount of money out of an ageing and diminishing readership, and might have been specifically designed to be offputting to new readers. But we all know this If the franchise was handed over to someone with significant talent and a clear creative vision who started something fresh and interesting which was protected from relaunches and events. If it was released in a straightforward and easy to understand way which would enable someone to go into a bookshop and be bewildered by a profusion of trades. Then, it might be different.

    If, in short, it wasn’t being published by Marvel in the late 2010s in the distribution model they have to the readership that they have under the corporate leadership that they have. If. If. If.
    That's a whole lot of ifs, and I'm still left highly doubtful. Comics =/= novels, as they're even more stigmatized, to say the least. I'm not at liberty to counter your claims in detail, at this time. But suffice it to say, anything you suggest would merely be a stopgap measure and only be staving off the inevitable, IMO. The irrefutable existence of the larger trend(s), belie your cherry-picking & highlighting of the GoT books:

    NewRepublic.com, The fate of literary publishing in the twenty-first century, in three numbers.
    ... these numbers also reflect a troubling decline in literary fiction more broadly. The Association of American Publishers reported last year that adult fiction sales fell 7.8 percent in 2016, compared to the year before—and have fallen a staggering 23 percent since 2012. Franzen’s sales are dropping, but not because of his essays about birding. They’re dropping because the days of the novel that sells a million copies are behind us.
    For good or ill, as the old saying goes, ya can't fight progress. Change is the only constant, and nothing stays the same, forever. The way I see it, books, periodicals, and yes, comics, are fighting a losing battle. They have been for a long time, but in the modern, digital age, they've lost ground ever faster.
    Last edited by Heroine Addict; 07-10-2018 at 05:16 AM.

  7. #82
    Incredible Member DearMachine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakeon View Post
    The problem is Marvel doesnt have any top talent anymore
    They do. They have freaking Nnedi Okorafor writing for them. She is a huge deal in science fiction. Binti alone has won the Hugo and Nebula in the last 2-3 years. Ta-Nehisi Coates is also an impressive coup for them.

    More traditionally, they have Gail Simone, Jason Aaron, Tom Taylor, PAD, Charles Soule, and Chip Zdarsky, all of whom are considered among the better writers at the moment. They also have Mariko Tamaki (whose indie work is amazing; I love This One Summer), and Kelly Thompson.

    I'm better at assessing writers than artists, since that's my own area of training. I'm sure someone else can chime in with artists. But I think they have a better writing team than DC.

  8. #83
    Incredible Member DearMachine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroine Addict View Post
    That's a whole lot of ifs, and I'm still left highly doubtful. Comics =/= novels, as they're even more stigmatized, to say the least. I'm not at liberty to counter your claims in detail, at this time. But suffice it to say, anything you suggest would merely be a stopgap measure and only be staving off the inevitable, IMO. Cherry-picking & highlighting the GoT books, belie the irrefutable existence, of the larger trend(s):

    https://newrepublic.com/minutes/1493...-three-numbers
    That article is specifically about literary fiction, though. It would not surprise me to discover that literary fiction was on a decline, but that genre fiction was on a rise. Literary fiction often requires a degree of focus and commitment that's pretty hard to achieve when you're busy and overworked and stressed about the world. By way of contrast, genre fiction usually provides an escape. Anecdotally, I probably read like two literary novels a year, but three to four genre novels a month. And I'm in one of the categories of people - Ph.D in English - who are probably most likely to read literary fiction.

    In fact, numbers from 2017 suggest that may be the case: https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/...w-in-2017.html Fantasy, Mystery/Detective, and Horror show growth. Suspense holds steady. SF has a tiny decline, but that may be because of the releases that year. Romance has an interesting drop, and I wonder if there's a shift to self-published books going on there, which can provide for very niche audiences.

  9. #84
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slicknickshady View Post
    Gold clearly the #1 seller. Hell #29 of Gold only did a few k less than the recent Red #5.

    For the record, I bought 7 copies of Gold #30 (Reg Cover and 6 Variants). For Red #5 just the Reg Cover!
    You are a monster!



    Jk

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by DearMachine View Post
    That article is specifically about literary fiction, though. It would not surprise me to discover that literary fiction was on a decline, but that genre fiction was on a rise. Literary fiction often requires a degree of focus and commitment that's pretty hard to achieve when you're busy and overworked and stressed about the world. By way of contrast, genre fiction usually provides an escape. Anecdotally, I probably read like two literary novels a year, but three to four genre novels a month. And I'm in one of the categories of people - Ph.D in English - who are probably most likely to read literary fiction.

    In fact, numbers from 2017 suggest that may be the case: https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/...w-in-2017.html Fantasy, Mystery/Detective, and Horror show growth. Suspense holds steady. SF has a tiny decline, but that may be because of the releases that year. Romance has an interesting drop, and I wonder if there's a shift to self-published books going on there, which can provide for very niche audiences.
    Fair point, but the statistics I highlighted from AAP, were about adult fiction in general. So it doesn't change the fact that it's dropped almost a full fourth, in the last five years or so. And more to my point, from your link, the Science Fiction/Fantasy/Magic category fell 10% in juvenile fiction. While there's the faintest of hope here & there, I'm still not all that encouraged, and not sure any of it suggests a brighter future for comics. For instance, from the above:

    ... Graphic novels, which had an 11% increase between 2015 and 2016—the second biggest gain in adult fiction in that year—saw sales fall 5% last year.
    Last edited by Heroine Addict; 07-10-2018 at 05:51 AM.

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    As Heroine pointed out, the problem is fragmentation. There are no more 1,000,000 selling novels.

    The audience has so much choice, not just comics, but in all entertainment. Remember when there were only 3 networks? And only the best shows got picked up to air?

    Can you Imagine any book selling 100,000 consistently?

    Maybe Morrison and Jim Lee on Xmen. (A dream come never)

    Even then, you will have a ton of fans, not liking Morrison. And then a ton of fans not liking Lee.

    Fans are going to like and buy what they like. As long as books can be in the top 100, they’ll be fine. And as pointed out, around 20% of all comics in June were Xmen related.

    Now let’s go CB, you need to make Xmen an imprint and find someone to lead it.

  12. #87
    Mighty Member Coin Biter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heroine Addict View Post
    That's a whole lot of ifs, and I'm still left highly doubtful. Comics =/= novels, as they're even more stigmatized, to say the least. I'm not at liberty to counter your claims in detail, at this time. But suffice it to say, anything you suggest would merely be a stopgap measure and only be staving off the inevitable, IMO. The irrefutable existence of the larger trend(s), belie your cherry-picking & highlighting of the GoT books:

    NewRepublic.com, The fate of literary publishing in the twenty-first century, in three numbers.


    For good or ill, as the old saying goes, ya can't fight progress. Change is the only constant, and nothing stays the same, forever. The way I see it, books, periodicals, and yes, comics, are fighting a losing battle. They have been for a long time, but in the modern, digital age, they've lost ground ever faster.
    I said that it might be different, not that it would be There are two points that I'd make:

    1. Your original statement that there is a decline in attention span. That is not something that is possible to judge by book, comics and periodical sales in any event, because people are consuming entertainment in all kinds of different forms. So I'd question whether evidence for such a statement could be anything other than anecdotal to begin with. So I'll introduce another anecdote Television drama, in particular, has featured an unprecedented quantity of demanding drama series over the last 20 years - certainly a greater number than in my childhood, where the more demanding dramas in the UK (such as Edge of Darkness, or literary adaptations, such as A Jewel in the Crown) were spoken of in hushed tones.

    I don't, in short, believe that people are rejecting comic books because they lack the attention span to appreciate them.

    2. There are particular reasons why comic books are suffering significantly, even in comparison to other written material. What, after all, were AvX, or Civil War 2, or Battle of the Atom, or the "marriage" of Kitty and Colossus, or any other of the events or mini-events or crossovers, other than to attempt to maximise sales among the currently existing readership? Comic books are facing a greater challenge than many other forms of entertainment because while the skill of the talent may be considerable, the superhero genre itself is stale, the outlets of distribution are consciously limited, the sales techniques are geared towards current readers buying multiple periodicals, and the fictional universes set a higher entry for the new reader than you'd find in the works of George Eliot. I honestly don't think this is that controversial.

    But whether it's possible to expand the interest in the genre to new readers while not losing existing ones... why, there's the question.

  13. #88
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    Do they count overseas sales as in Europe and Asia?

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by DearMachine View Post
    They do. They have freaking Nnedi Okorafor writing for them. She is a huge deal in science fiction. Binti alone has won the Hugo and Nebula in the last 2-3 years. Ta-Nehisi Coates is also an impressive coup for them.

    More traditionally, they have Gail Simone, Jason Aaron, Tom Taylor, PAD, Charles Soule, and Chip Zdarsky, all of whom are considered among the better writers at the moment. They also have Mariko Tamaki (whose indie work is amazing; I love This One Summer), and Kelly Thompson.

    I'm better at assessing writers than artists, since that's my own area of training. I'm sure someone else can chime in with artists. But I think they have a better writing team than DC.
    I think that there are many talented writers and artists working for both Marvel and DC. Not only that, but the genre is fairly mature and many of the techniques used sophisticated.

    That said - and it may be partly because I am myself getting on in years - but the superhero comics genre does feel very tired. That in itself is hardly surprising. It's over 70 years since the start of the Golden Age, over 50 since the start of the Silver, over 30 since the height of the superhero writing career of Alan Moore. That's many many years of continuous publication and artistic endeavour, and it needs a hell of a lot more than a fresh coat of paint.

  15. #90
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jalsrix View Post
    Do they count overseas sales as in Europe and Asia?
    its NA. That would be quite pathetic if it was worldwide

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