X-men January Sales: Its That time of the month again...

[King_Thor13]

Far as art, I know Ken Lashley is on Gold. This may be an unpopular opinion, but I hated his style. Even during Uncanny, I preferred when Land was doing art instead. He's got flaws, but I overall found his style easier on the eyes than Lashley. So Ken on Gold would take another point for me. But clearly, most fans love him.

Agreed. I don't think it's that great. Not that it's bad either, but there are better artists out there. And Land is largely criticised for making characters look the same, and mimicking/recycling images in his artwork. I do think that his art kinda works, and it's not terrible, despite being lazy and uninspired. But that's another issue.

Agreed on Weapon X. Very horrid run. When I look at Frank Tierri's Weapon X, and see how far it's fallen with Pak, I am horrified. I finally dropped it. I was tempted to pick it back up when Pak mentioned big things coming for Creed & Lady Deathstrike in chapters 18 + 22 respectively. But given how bad Pak's done with them so far, I was leaning toward not reading to avoid disappointment -and recently seeing a sketch by Cinar on twitter reinforced that decision.

At best I'll check out reviews to stay up to date and hear when the roster changes start happening. And hope Creed & Domino are part of the eventual purge.

Pak hasn't done the Weapon X roster any favors. Domino is a cheap trope reduced to a gun-toting money-hungry merc. Sabretooth is a mess. Lady Deathstrike doesn't do anything. And Warpath for some reason can now fly and has a healing factor. If the book isn't ending, then I'd rather he gets characters he can write well.

As a fan of lesser known, or popular characters, you have to take them with some fan favorites in order to see them, but keeping the book balanced for other fans so it lasts longer. But a roster full of unknown characters, or entirely new characters isn't the best way to start them off.

Absolutely. Without some of the 'big' characters, getting a roster of relatively unknown characters to stick just isn't going to happen. We all have our favorites, but the harsh reality is that a number of us won't ever get solos for our faves, or a team book where we like the entire roster. Cancellations are pretty regular in comics these days, and without decent sales, Marvel will have no hesitation in dropping a book. So yes, it's necessary for mainstream characters to carry the title and bring in casual readers who wouldn't otherwise pick it up.

STOP. BUYING. GOLD.

I know I'm preaching to the choir. It's just infuriating that Guggenheim's not getting the feedback he deserves. Are certain people rolling in so much dough they're happy to just flush 10$/month down the drain in exchange for jack shit? What's the point of buying for the roster when no one is written like an actual character? I don't get it!

AFAIK, the sales aren't coming from longtime X-Men fans. Guggenheim doesn't show an awareness of the characters histories or personalities, and continuously uses the same boring story tropes. I don't know who is buying copies, but it sure ain't me. Can't wait until it's canceled so another writer can save Ororo & Kurt.

[yogaflame]

Has there ever been any data to actually determine how many issues of a given comic have actually sold as opposed to the numbers we get referring to the number shipped to brick and mortar comic shops?

No, those numbers will never be calculated. The direct market modelers make sure of that! It's an excellent point, though. I'd like to know how many LCS's orders are collated to create these Diamond figures, too. Like how you can see how many theaters a movie plays in relative to it's overall box office.

[Materiel]

I think that would be very difficult, especially with 'back issues'.

I would think so. I don't understand why incomplete data inspires such scrutiny.

[WheelchairX]

I would think so. I don't understand why incomplete data inspires such scrutiny.

What other data have we got to scrutinise, I guess?

[Materiel]

What other data have we got to scrutinise, I guess?

That makes a depressing amount of sense.

[Disciple of Redd]

Has there ever been any data to actually determine how many issues of a given comic have actually sold as opposed to the numbers we get referring to the number shipped to brick and mortar comic shops?

Bleeding Cool compiles numbers from a random assortment of comic shops willing to share info with them.

I think more shops should be public about their sales.

[WheelchairX]

That makes a depressing amount of sense.

Human nature, I guess.

[yogaflame]

And Warpath for some reason can now fly and has a healing factor.

AFAIK, the sales aren't coming from longtime X-Men fans. I don't know who is buying copies, but it sure ain't me.

To be fair, James was shown to be able to fly loooooong ago in Ellis's X-Force, pre-Morrison. It's just that no one ever actually uses it. I can accept a healing factor from him too based on his extremely high levels of strength and invulnerability. If you do somehow manage to injure him, of course his body would heal up faster than a normal person(even if it's a bit of a stretch to fit the feral characters).

And as for who's buying, I honestly do believe there are a solid number of oldhead X-Fans who are straight collectors and will buy anything with an X on its cover just to be complete. I would also imagine LCS are just used to selling X-books as their bread and butter, and even in a shrinking market, are stuck in old habits. I don't think 50k new fans/kids are actively seeking out X-Men Gold(or Blue, or Red, etc) on their own accord, based on it's actual content/quality. If the market were like that, Gen X wouldn't be getting cancelled(as there was a book for these supposed 'new readers' free from too much continuity backstory and starring 'lovable losers' Millennials/Gen Zer's).

[WheelchairX]

To be fair, James was shown to be able to fly loooooong ago in Ellis's X-Force, pre-Morrison. It's just that no one ever actually uses it. I can accept a healing factor from him too based on his extremely high levels of strength and invulnerability. If you do somehow manage to injure him, of course his body would heal up faster than a normal person(even if it's a bit of a stretch to fit the feral characters).

And as for who's buying, I honestly do believe there are a solid number of oldhead X-Fans who are straight collectors and will buy anything with an X on its cover just to be complete. I would also imagine LCS are just used to selling X-books as their bread and butter, and even in a shrinking market, are stuck in old habits. I don't think 50k new fans/kids are actively seeking out X-Men Gold(or Blue, or Red, etc) on their own accord, based on it's actual content/quality. If the market were like that, Gen X wouldn't be getting cancelled(as there was a book for these supposed 'new readers' free from too much continuity backstory and starring 'lovable losers' Millennials/Gen Zer's).

I hate to admit it, but if I buy an issue of a book, my OCD kicks in and I need to buy every issue - luckily for me, UK sales don't show up on the Diamond Comics data

[yogaflame]

I hate to admit it, but if I buy an issue of a book, my OCD kicks in and I need to buy every issue - luckily for me, UK sales don't show up on the Diamond Comics data

lol. You do you, luv!

[butterflykyss]

To be technical, Phoenix Resurrection: The Return of Jean Grey, could be considered a solo, as her name and codename are both in the title. It's not X-Men:Phoenix Resurrection etc etc.

I'd don't think Jean is Marvel's WW(or ever could be), nor do I think we're derailing things by analyzing sales data. I'm just trying to keep things transparent. It will be interesting to see X-Men:Red #1's numbers next month, but as you say, that would be a team book and not indicative of Jean's selling power, necessarily(especially with the writer of X23 and Honey Badger pulling in his/their fans too).

This was never marketed as a Jean Grey mini or solo. It's an x-men book that features her return. Though it's Jean Grey centered its very much an x-men dense book. So I think that's a stretch to call it a solo even with the title.

Also I don't think we are derailing but mods have been a bit more strict and was putting that out there.

[Silver Fang]

Agreed. I don't think it's that great. Not that it's bad either, but there are better artists out there. And Land is largely criticised for making characters look the same, and mimicking/recycling images in his artwork. I do think that his art kinda works, and it's not terrible, despite being lazy and uninspired. But that's another issue.

In total agreement. Lashley just has the issue of giving everyone super large foreheads, and receding hairlines. And some of his men look the same too. lol I think Land's porn faces are the biggest issue many have. But honestly, if the style is good, I can tolerate same faces. Like in Uncanny X-Men. It was the one where Sabretooth guts Psylocke. Loved the style, but all the women had the same face. lol

Pak hasn't done the Weapon X roster any favors. Domino is a cheap trope reduced to a gun-toting money-hungry merc. Sabretooth is a mess. Lady Deathstrike doesn't do anything. And Warpath for some reason can now fly and has a healing factor. If the book isn't ending, then I'd rather he gets characters he can write well.

Preaching to the choir. Warpath, I call the Swiss army knife. His powers changed based on what plot requires. He can fly. But in chapter 12, he's shown using flying wings like the other characters. If he can fly, what'd he need the wings for? None of the cast is doing well in Weapon X. I say the one smelling closest to a rose is Mary Sue Logan. Who's the team's moral conscious and never does anything wrong. Sabretooth is the opposite -a bumbling moron who never does anything right. It's like he's here to make Logan look good. I think he's gotten the worst treatment, followed by Domino. Deathstrike is 3rd place -being a mannequin is the least of 3 evils compared to the assassination of the other 2. Warpath is only slightly better.

Pak also hasn't done well developing the bonds in this team that would keep them together after the 1st arc. Other than an ass-pulled romance with Neena & Warpath.

Absolutely. Without some of the 'big' characters, getting a roster of relatively unknown characters to stick just isn't going to happen. We all have our favorites, but the harsh reality is that a number of us won't ever get solos for our faves, or a team book where we like the entire roster. Cancellations are pretty regular in comics these days, and without decent sales, Marvel will have no hesitation in dropping a book. So yes, it's necessary for mainstream characters to carry the title and bring in casual readers who wouldn't otherwise pick it up.

I think it is definitely rare that those books succeed. Especially today. Strain mentioned they have to be selling really well consistently from the get-go, otherwise they get the ax. She mentioned that these days, books aren't gonna be given a lot of time to find their footing anymore. She mentioned the book was gonna be at least 16 issues from the start, but now with sales, it got dropped to 12.

[anyajenkins]

Has there ever been any data to actually determine how many issues of a given comic have actually sold as opposed to the numbers we get referring to the number shipped to brick and mortar comic shops?

No and these numbers aren't even the real order numbers. They're third party estimates, neither marvel or diamond releases their actual sales data.

[WheelchairX]

lol. You do you, luv!

Cheers -though I don't understand how I can put myself through Gold every two weeks and still get it again.

[Digifiend]

No and these numbers aren't even the real order numbers. They're third party estimates, neither marvel or diamond releases their actual sales data.

Wrong. Comichron gets the info.... from Diamond.