NFL 2019 Off-Season thread

[SUPERECWFAN1]

That has to get Steve Keim fired, right? I mean, I also think it's extremely likely that Josh Rosen excels wherever he ends up (unless it's on another bad team), but let me tell you, Rosen is not the problem. So they're by far the least talented roster in the league and they have an opportunity to trade back and fill as many holes as possible and they're going to stay put so they can draft another Quarterback who is less of a sure thing than the young one they already have on their roster.

Can the NFL seize the team?

There is a precedent on teams now moving on from a QB within 2 seasons at times. Cleveland did that. Hell they did it twice if we remember with Brandon Weeden and Johnny Manziel. The Bengals themselves once moved on from Akili Smith within 2 seasons as well.

The only way this works is if they get a decent trade for Rosen and get a 1st and 2nd possibly value wise. But its how much they get for Rosen that matters here. If its anything less than at least 1 , 1st round pick then its a wasted selection and they deserve people laughing at them.

[PwrdOn]

There is a precedent on teams now moving on from a QB within 2 seasons at times. Cleveland did that. Hell they did it twice if we remember with Brandon Weeden and Johnny Manziel. The Bengals themselves once moved on from Akili Smith within 2 seasons as well.

The only way this works is if they get a decent trade for Rosen and get a 1st and 2nd possibly value wise. But its how much they get for Rosen that matters here. If its anything less than at least 1 , 1st round pick then its a wasted selection and they deserve people laughing at them.

But why would anyone give up a huge haul of draft picks for Rosen when the Cardinals are practically begging for someone to take him off of their hands? Going into the season with two highly drafted QBs and little talent around them is a recipe for on-field disaster and plenty of locker room turmoil, and all the potential trade partners know this which is why they can afford to wait it out and pick up Rosen for cheap when the Cardinals get desperate. Frankly, the smart move here is to pass on Murray, possibly trade down and stock up on weapons, and see how far Rosen can take you. I'm skeptical of Murray's potential anyway, there seem to be undersized scramblers in the draft every year and they are always a risky proposition, so I don't see why it's so critical to get him as opposed to all of the other QB prospects.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

But why would anyone give up a huge haul of draft picks for Rosen when the Cardinals are practically begging for someone to take him off of their hands? Going into the season with two highly drafted QBs and little talent around them is a recipe for on-field disaster and plenty of locker room turmoil, and all the potential trade partners know this which is why they can afford to wait it out and pick up Rosen for cheap when the Cardinals get desperate. Frankly, the smart move here is to pass on Murray, possibly trade down and stock up on weapons, and see how far Rosen can take you. I'm skeptical of Murray's potential anyway, there seem to be undersized scramblers in the draft every year and they are always a risky proposition, so I don't see why it's so critical to get him as opposed to all of the other QB prospects.

The reason to take Murray is he ran the same system that Klingbury ran in college and teams want Pat Mahomes now. After what Mahomes did in 1 season as essentially a rookie winning NFL MVP....teams want a Mahomes and be wide open. Murray is the best bet for that system and can make the offense move with it. Rosen has to learn that system and come along in it. Murray can take what he did in college and roll quicker.

Rosen likely will rank above the QB's in this draft. Remember he was a top 10 QB last year draft wise. The only issues he had was a bad offensive line and system it seems. A team like the Giants can trade a 2020 1st rd pick and then take a great player next. They don't have to roll the dice on a lesser QB class this season and waste a 2019 pick there. Arizona can load up for 2020 with 2 , 1st rd picks.

The only way I do this deal if I'm Arizona is if I get that 1st round pick at least for Rosen. If not...i move on and draft a top player beyond Murray.

[worstblogever]

According to NFL.Com , the Arizona Cardinals have decided that they WILL draft Kyler Murray overall at #1 and let him run the new red raid offense that they are installing. They at 1st denied that they would take Murray but now the belief is the Cardinals want to make an offensive splash and Murray is it. This will likely mean Josh Rosen will be traded out before or after the 2019 NFL Draft.

I can see a few teams taking Rosen and then using their first round pick for another impact player. Giants, Phins and Jaguars come to mind.

Miami and New York especially had designs on Rosen.

That has to get Steve Keim fired, right?

Depends on what return he gets on Rosen. If it's anything less than a mid-round 1st round pick (Rosen went at #10 last year) then he's failed.

[MRP]

I think the Cards will have to add something to the deal to get a 1st rounder for Rosen. Part of the value of drafting a QB in the first round is getting the QB for 5 years at a cap friendly number so you can also add talent around him, mostly through the draft at cap friendly numbers so you don't have to worry about losing talent because of the cap ceiling. With Rosen, you've already lost 1 of those years, so he is less valuable in the context of the cap than a QB you draft in the 1st round, plus you have to give up another cap friendly talent addition which you would have gotten with the pick the team gave up to get him, and there is only a handful of players you get the fifth year option on, so trading for Rosen costs you more than it would if you had drafted him. I can see teams giving up a second round pick, but not a first unless they are getting something else like a 2nd round pick from the Cards to make up for the value already lost on that 1st round pick.

-M

[PwrdOn]

The reason to take Murray is he ran the same system that Klingbury ran in college and teams want Pat Mahomes now. After what Mahomes did in 1 season as essentially a rookie winning NFL MVP....teams want a Mahomes and be wide open. Murray is the best bet for that system and can make the offense move with it. Rosen has to learn that system and come along in it. Murray can take what he did in college and roll quicker.

Rosen likely will rank above the QB's in this draft. Remember he was a top 10 QB last year draft wise. The only issues he had was a bad offensive line and system it seems. A team like the Giants can trade a 2020 1st rd pick and then take a great player next. They don't have to roll the dice on a lesser QB class this season and waste a 2019 pick there. Arizona can load up for 2020 with 2 , 1st rd picks.

The only way I do this deal if I'm Arizona is if I get that 1st round pick at least for Rosen. If not...i move on and draft a top player beyond Murray.

Why would anyone give the Cardinals a good offer when they're the ones desperate to make a deal? Rosen's own draft position is irrelevant now, we've had a year to see what type of player he is and the results were not too promising, so if Arizona is hoping for an offer that will essentially allow them to mulligan last year's pick they can forget about that.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Why would anyone give the Cardinals a good offer when they're the ones desperate to make a deal? Rosen's own draft position is irrelevant now, we've had a year to see what type of player he is and the results were not too promising, so if Arizona is hoping for an offer that will essentially allow them to mulligan last year's pick they can forget about that.

Teams will look past a young rookie QB thrown in behind a terrible offensive line and bad offensive system that saw a coordinator fired. Hell Rosen will get a pass due to how bad the OL was then. They cut a guy after 8 games after paying him to start at tackle that off-season. He'll get looked at for what he did in college and be graded there. The Giants and Dolphins are looking at QB's.

[PwrdOn]

Teams will look past a young rookie QB thrown in behind a terrible offensive line and bad offensive system that saw a coordinator fired. Hell Rosen will get a pass due to how bad the OL was then. They cut a guy after 8 games after paying him to start at tackle that off-season. He'll get looked at for what he did in college and be graded there. The Giants and Dolphins are looking at QB's.

Even if you need a QB, Rosen is only really worth looking at because the Cardinals are trying to dump him and there's a chance of picking him up on the cheap. Any GM who trades a high first rounder for him and tries to sell it to the fans as if they just got a highly touted rookie prospect they can build a team around, and not a guy who just spent a whole season getting his teeth knocked in, truly deserves to be fired.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Even if you need a QB, Rosen is only really worth looking at because the Cardinals are trying to dump him and there's a chance of picking him up on the cheap. Any GM who trades a high first rounder for him and tries to sell it to the fans as if they just got a highly touted rookie prospect they can build a team around, and not a guy who just spent a whole season getting his teeth knocked in, truly deserves to be fired.

Ron Wolfe would disagree with you. He once viewed Brett Farve as being worth a 1st round pick and traded for him...and he was a 2nd rd draft pick. What is amazing is ..according to this Farve also had health issues that made teams scared. Yet the Packers and Wolfe did the deal.

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/sto...rs-made-happen

Farve performed worse than what Rosen did in his play for the Falcons as well. I'm not saying Rosen will turn out like Farve (no one knows that). But a team can see a guy that was graded very damn high and with little chance to go up and get a QB early in this draft make a deal. The Dolphins logically can cut Tannehill and trade for Rosen ...giving up a 2020 1st rd pick. They then can draft someone in 2019 to help.

This gets their new head coach a QB he needs for his system and allows him to possibly draft someone for that. Or for the defense that needs loaded up on.

[PwrdOn]

Ron Wolfe would disagree with you. He once viewed Brett Farve as being worth a 1st round pick and traded for him...and he was a 2nd rd draft pick. What is amazing is ..according to this Farve also had health issues that made teams scared. Yet the Packers and Wolfe did the deal.

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/sto...rs-made-happen

Farve performed worse than what Rosen did in his play for the Falcons as well. I'm not saying Rosen will turn out like Farve (no one knows that). But a team can see a guy that was graded very damn high and with little chance to go up and get a QB early in this draft make a deal. The Dolphins logically can cut Tannehill and trade for Rosen ...giving up a 2020 1st rd pick. They then can draft someone in 2019 to help.

This gets their new head coach a QB he needs for his system and allows him to possibly draft someone for that. Or for the defense that needs loaded up on.

I just don't see the urgency here, even if I need a QB why would I give up a first rounder just so the Cardinals can save face? I have a hard time believing that any of the teams looking at Rosen actually want him bad enough to start a bidding war over him, so better to just wait it out until the Cardinals get desperate. They're the ones that are under pressure to make a deal, it's not the responsibility of any other team to hand them a high draft pick on a silver platter just so that can rationalize their short sighted draft strategy.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

The reason to take Murray is he ran the same system that Klingbury ran in college and teams want Pat Mahomes now. After what Mahomes did in 1 season as essentially a rookie winning NFL MVP....teams want a Mahomes and be wide open. Murray is the best bet for that system and can make the offense move with it. Rosen has to learn that system and come along in it. Murray can take what he did in college and roll quicker.

Rosen likely will rank above the QB's in this draft. Remember he was a top 10 QB last year draft wise. The only issues he had was a bad offensive line and system it seems. A team like the Giants can trade a 2020 1st rd pick and then take a great player next. They don't have to roll the dice on a lesser QB class this season and waste a 2019 pick there. Arizona can load up for 2020 with 2 , 1st rd picks.

The only way I do this deal if I'm Arizona is if I get that 1st round pick at least for Rosen. If not...i move on and draft a top player beyond Murray.

Exactly two times in NFL history has a sophmore QB won MVP and had a monster number year. Mahomes this year and Marino in 2008. If the standard for teams is "we want our young QB to be the next Mahomes, then they are insane. Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Montana, Unitas, Staubach, Bradshaw, etc all didn't come out hot the same way Mahomes and Marino did. Not to mention, Mahomes had the most stacked offense in the league outside possibly the Rams. A team drafting first is not putting a QB in that situation.

Murray would not have been in the first round in the last draft and likely would have not even be talked about as a top ten talent if some QB's didn't sit out this draft. The dude is undersized and it's an absolute rarity. Like you're basically betting that guy who has said and done all the wrong things so far becomes the next Russell Wilson. Also name a time drafting a QB based off a college system they ran has ever worked out longterm? It almost never happens. Maybe you get a good rookie or sophmore year, then the league picks it apart, then you have to go back to the drawing boards and basically have him play like everyone else and see if he can cut it.

Also what team is going to value Rosen enough when he hasn't been all the stellar to begin with and his team is casting him off for a huge reach at QB?

[C_Miller]

I can see several teams being interested in Rosen, but I don't think many teams will be interested in giving up a 1st. Maybe the Redskins... they're too far down to have their pick of the litter at QB and are a very QB needy team. I could see the Raiders trading one of their late 1st's for Rosen, but we can argue whether or not they're in need of a QB. I could also see him going to teams with older QBs to sit behind them and learn. Patriots, Saints, Packers, Chargers could all be interested, but I think they give up way less. A team that might be a good fit for Rosen is Minnesota. Cousins is only under contract for 2 more years and if he has another season like last year, they'll probably look at moving on at the end of those two years. Perfect opportunity for Rosen to jump in.

[C_Miller]

Rashan Gary's 40 time was insane. 4.59 at 277 pounds. The issue is that he's a bit of a tweener, but with that speed, he likely can play edge rusher in a 4-3, but I could also see him being an Aaron Donald type DT. I'm a little concerned about his production in college, but he has a ton of upside.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

DK Metcalf was all primed to go down as the star of this combine and raise his draft stock considerably. Then he had a 3 cone time worse than Tom Brady and now he's a major red flag

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I just don't see the urgency here, even if I need a QB why would I give up a first rounder just so the Cardinals can save face? I have a hard time believing that any of the teams looking at Rosen actually want him bad enough to start a bidding war over him, so better to just wait it out until the Cardinals get desperate. They're the ones that are under pressure to make a deal, it's not the responsibility of any other team to hand them a high draft pick on a silver platter just so that can rationalize their short sighted draft strategy.

This draft has only 2-3 QB's that many see as 1st rd picks. But the QB class isn't as sought after as last years QB class. The following teams could look at QB's.

New Orleans Saints - Sean Payton wanted Mahomes and detailed how KC shocked him trading up.
Jacksonville Jaguars - A given they will need a QB.
Miami Dolphins - Talk is they are looking to try and trade Tannehill. He is due $38+ million in 2 seasons and not many takers.
NY Giants - The Giants need an heir to Eli Manning soon.
New England Patriots - Need a QB ahead because Brady turns 42 this season
Pittsburgh Steelers - Big Ben is gonna turn 37-38 this season and an heir ahead needs to be thought about.
LA Chargers - Phillip Rivers came out the same year as Ben Rothlisberger and Eli Manning. They need an heir ahead for him.
Denver Broncos - John Elway has to be thinking that Joe Flacco at 34 can't be the long term guy.
Oakland Raiders - Its Jon Gruden , he could get crazy for Rosen and let Carr go at a moments notice.
Washington Redskins - Alex Smith may never play a down of football again. The Redskins can deal for Rosen and draft normal this season.
Detroit Lions - Matthew Stafford struggled and hasn't really won much at all. There is grumbling the Lions really don't want to commit another big deal to him.

Now scratch the team that gets Foles. Not all of these teams will get a QB early in this draft this year. Not a quality one they view as a future franchise QB to step in.

Exactly two times in NFL history has a sophmore QB won MVP and had a monster number year. Mahomes this year and Marino in 2008. If the standard for teams is "we want our young QB to be the next Mahomes, then they are insane. Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Montana, Unitas, Staubach, Bradshaw, etc all didn't come out hot the same way Mahomes and Marino did. Not to mention, Mahomes had the most stacked offense in the league outside possibly the Rams. A team drafting first is not putting a QB in that situation.

Murray would not have been in the first round in the last draft and likely would have not even be talked about as a top ten talent if some QB's didn't sit out this draft. The dude is undersized and it's an absolute rarity. Like you're basically betting that guy who has said and done all the wrong things so far becomes the next Russell Wilson. Also name a time drafting a QB based off a college system they ran has ever worked out longterm? It almost never happens. Maybe you get a good rookie or sophmore year, then the league picks it apart, then you have to go back to the drawing boards and basically have him play like everyone else and see if he can cut it.

Also what team is going to value Rosen enough when he hasn't been all the stellar to begin with and his team is casting him off for a huge reach at QB?

Murray is the same size that Drew Brees is around actually. Both men are around 5'11-6'0 and Murray has packed on more weight mass to his frame. Because as he detailed he's serious about being a NFL QB. Klingbury will want that type of production out of the system he coached Mahomes in. The closest QB who knows that is Murray. As listed above teams only get so many franchise QB's in a draft or free agency. They can see this as a gaining a franchise QB for the future and drafting in 2019.

I can see several teams being interested in Rosen, but I don't think many teams will be interested in giving up a 1st. Maybe the Redskins... they're too far down to have their pick of the litter at QB and are a very QB needy team. I could see the Raiders trading one of their late 1st's for Rosen, but we can argue whether or not they're in need of a QB. I could also see him going to teams with older QBs to sit behind them and learn. Patriots, Saints, Packers, Chargers could all be interested, but I think they give up way less. A team that might be a good fit for Rosen is Minnesota. Cousins is only under contract for 2 more years and if he has another season like last year, they'll probably look at moving on at the end of those two years. Perfect opportunity for Rosen to jump in.

Possibly Minnesota sure...that is another team. Of course as Murray's heat gained here a team like New England was considered drafting him in mock drafts late in 1st rd. I logically can't see New England doing this since all the QB's ala Brady have came after 1st rd. The ones they have traded have came in 2nd and other rounds. Now a Chargers could see how close they are and think , ok we can trade a 2020 1st rd pick here , let him watch from Rivers and he starts in 2020 when Rivers will be 38 this season after December. Rothlisberger will be 37 in 2020 and debated retirement at one point. So in both cases they can get someone like Rosen and sit him a season to learn and step in.