Zaslav's era could be the worst time for WW.

[phonogram12]

Hahahaha, no. There is no superhero more iconic than Superman. From the red cape to his pose, and the S insignia; I see it almost everywhere. The archetype of many superhero characters. And the current "Evi" Superman era. If Superman didn't exist, who knows where manga would be. Sure Batman is more popular, but Batman wouldn't exist without Superman.

Agreed. Batman may be the favorite son and the biggest moneymaker, but as far as pure brand recognition, Superman still has him beat. Probably not by much, but he still has him beat.

[WonderLight789]

Agreed. Batman may be the favorite son and the biggest moneymaker, but as far as pure brand recognition, Superman still has him beat. Probably not by much, but he still has him beat.

More people would recognize BM over SM. So clearly BM is more iconic.

[Koriand'r]

More people would recognize BM over SM. So clearly BM is more iconic.

I don't think that's true, and if it is, it's only because Batman has more films.

[BiteTheBullet]

I don't think that's true, and if it is, it's only because Batman has more films.

Batman has had more movies, Batman related TV shows, more monthly comics and probably merchandise. I could be wrong, but that is my general impression.

[phonogram12]

I don't think that's true, and if it is, it's only because Batman has more films.

He does, absolutely. But that S shield is definitely more recognizable. Again, maybe not by much, but it really is.

[Koriand'r]

He does, absolutely. But that S shield is definitely more recognizable. Again, maybe not by much, but it really is.

I agree with you.

[DochaDocha]

I don't know who's more "recognizable." The argument for Batman is the movies, but one thing I see is that Superman's look is more standardized. It's blue with red cape. Batman's changes more significantly from one iteration to the next. Superman's simplicity makes it so that any time a kid pretends to be a superhero, the kid can create a makeshift cape and the first hero most would think is Superman.

One thing I would definitely argue is that Superman-isms are more baked into our culture than Batman-isms, e.g. Kryptonite. I don't know if that makes Superman more recognizable, but Superman essentially is the cliche.

[WonderLight789]

I don't think that's true, and if it is, it's only because Batman has more films.

I could say the same about WW. Had she been given the same amount of opportunities, she would be more iconic than SM.

[phonogram12]

I don't know who's more "recognizable." The argument for Batman is the movies, but one thing I see is that Superman's look is more standardized. It's blue with red cape. Batman's changes more significantly from one iteration to the next. Superman's simplicity makes it so that any time a kid pretends to be a superhero, the kid can create a makeshift cape and the first hero most would think is Superman.

One thing I would definitely argue is that Superman-isms are more baked into our culture than Batman-isms, e.g. Kryptonite. I don't know if that makes Superman more recognizable, but Superman essentially is the cliche.

And there's a reason cliches are what they are - because everyone knows them. And I would also argue that every aspect of Superman's design makes him more recognizable. As popular as Batman is (and he certainly is), when most people hear the word "superhero" the first person they think of is Superman. From the cape, to the shield, to the trunks and belt, he is why more than half of all superheroes today look the way that they do. And regardless of how popular he is, people recognize that.

[DABellWrites]

Hahaha yes. Batman is more well known. Impactful, acclaimed, successful and iconic.

Manga? Mangas have been doing great without Superman. And they don't need him. Bleach, One Piece, DBZ; Sailor Moon, Naruto, Ranma, Inuyasha, etc. So many mangas that destroy Superman and any other comic character in global sales. They don't need comic characters. They are in a league of their own. Comic characters only saving grace is live action movies. If they had to depend on comic book sales, lol they would be doomed to be only known in the US for the most part.

Impactful? Nah. Iconic? Nah. More well-known, not that big of a gap. Successful and acclaimed? Eeeeh.

Superman influenced Osamu Tezuka, who created Astro Boy. Superman influenced Akira Toriyama, obviously. Superman opened the door for Speed Racer (the creator worked on a Superman manga in 1959). I can go on, but you see my point. Superman is one of the most influential characters in all of fiction. Superman will tower over Batman, there would be no Batman without Superman.

[Agent Z]

Impactful? Nah. Iconic? Nah. More well-known, not that big of a gap. Successful and acclaimed? Eeeeh.

Superman influenced Osamu Tezuka, who created Astro Boy. Superman influenced Akira Toriyama, obviously. Superman opened the door for Speed Racer (the creator worked on a Superman manga in 1959). I can go on, but you see my point. Superman is one of the most influential characters in all of fiction. Superman will tower over Batman, there would be no Batman without Superman.

Batman has influenced the creation of several characters not to mention an entire generation of fans and writers. And that's without getting into his numerous media successes.

Toriyama was far more influenced by Journey to the West than Superman and I'm pretty sure the creator of Speed Racer would have created the character without needing to work on Superman.

Anyway, about Wonder Woman...

[phonogram12]

I can go on, but you see my point.

Hmm...all due respect, but this may be wishful thinking on your part.

[WonderLight789]

Impactful? Nah. Iconic? Nah. More well-known, not that big of a gap. Successful and acclaimed? Eeeeh.

Superman influenced Osamu Tezuka, who created Astro Boy. Superman influenced Akira Toriyama, obviously. Superman opened the door for Speed Racer (the creator worked on a Superman manga in 1959). I can go on, but you see my point. Superman is one of the most influential characters in all of fiction. Superman will tower over Batman, there would be no Batman without Superman.

Batman has influenced countless writers and characters. His presence in pop culture and media is bigger than SM's.

Superman did not influence Akira. Journey to the West did. BM takes nothing from SM. So yeah the charter would still exist without him. And considdering the fact he has been stomping on SM across all media for almost half a century. We can clearly see who won in the end.
Now can we go back to the topic of this thread?

[DABellWrites]

Batman has influenced countless writers and characters. His presence in pop culture and media is bigger than SM's.

Superman did not influence Akira. Journey to the West did. BM takes nothing from SM. So yeah the charter would still exist without him. And considdering the fact he has been stomping on SM across all media for almost half a century. We can clearly see who won in the end.
Now can we go back to the topic of this thread?

Well, yeah, batman is more popular. I don't deny it, but Superman is the real deal in terms of cultural influence. Also, no Batman wouldn't exist without Superman. He was created in 1939 following Superman's success.

Batman has influenced the creation of several characters not to mention an entire generation of fans and writers. And that's without getting into his numerous media successes.

Toriyama was far more influenced by Journey to the West than Superman and I'm pretty sure the creator of Speed Racer would have created the character without needing to work on Superman.

Anyway, about Wonder Woman...

The influence is there with Akira Toriyama, just gotta know where to look. Such as Videl and Gohan, which was almost a parody (unless anyone knows another famous Japanese fictional couple like Superman and Lois Lane). Also the whole bulletproof (but still hurts) with Goku in the first chapter of Dragon Ball. So., I correct myself. Superman helped open the door for Speed Racer. https://www.lambiek.net/artists/y/yoshida_tatsuo.htm, but fourteen volumes worth of stories in one year is pretty incredible (the Superman manga apparently lasted one year, 1959-1960). My only wishful thinking is I wish I knew more. Apparently, in 1983 Osamu Tezuka was made an honorary member of the Superman Fan Club in Japan. I didn't even know there was a Superman fan club in Japan.

Anyways, let's get back to the topic.

ETA: When I use influence, I don't mean like inspired or Superman solely was the inspiration. I'm not that dumb. I use influence, as in helped; such as Gohan and Videl.

[Top Hat]

We will see. DC-WB trackrecord with WW is terrible. And this guy, based on what i know about him, doesn't look like a good influence for the WW franchise.

Over the years I’ve come to expect very little from WB when it comes to anything on screen for WW. So whenever she does get a live action or animated film I treat it as a major bonus. I think she gets mostly treated worse than Superman and Batman. But then Superman gets treated worse than Batman who is WB’s golden son.