Action Comics #31 Preview

[misslane]

This reminds me of when fans flipped out because Mary Jane actually befriended and liked Carlie when Peter was dating her. Like not portraying the ex as being as butthurt as fans are about the situation is a slap in the face to that former relationship.

Pak makes Lana sound extremely mature in this preview, I love it.

Huh? No one is mad about Lana not being jealous. I didn't want Lois or Lana to act that way and I like the idea of all of the ladies respecting each other. I don't understand how your mind translates a critique of Lana's and Lois's praise for Wonder Woman as demanding the polar opposite (i.e. butthurt). There's another option, you know, like saying something completely different or staging the scene better. I would have preferred if instead of making it so Lana and Lois are too far away and too late to get to Superman, they have arrived and are caring for him when Diana arrives, says hello to them, and they all say a grateful goodbye as the team takes Superman to safety. As they leave, Lana and Lois avoid unnecessary Bechdel Test failing nonsense (neither Lois nor Lana would find WW or SM/WW news, and neither have fresh or viable romantic ties with Superman) and say something that acknowledges that several people came to Superman's aid by keeping Lana's "super friends" line in some form. Like, "Wow, Superman's lucky to have so many super friends" (Lois and Lana smile at each other) ..."and human ones." End scene.

[Superlad93]

I remember PreNew 52 Lana; she was always portrayed as the ex-girlfriend still pining for Clark and looking for any opportunity to get him back. Greg Pak makes her more independent and mature. I really don't understand the critics on this thread. In Action Comics #31 she's making a statement about the evolution of the lonely nerd she knew; her comment is filled with admiration (and maybe a little nostalgia). She's an old friend who tells him: "You finally made it Clark! Way to go!!"
I don't see what's wrong with being supportive of an old pal.

Yeah, it's got a little "aw he's done some changing from what I know" but it's also filled with pride for this amazing being he's become. It just comes off as a very well layered introspective moment for Lana that has been building since Pak's first issue. Needless to say I think it's very well written.

[Superlad93]

Huh? No one is mad about Lana not being jealous. I didn't want Lois or Lana to act that way and I like the idea of all of the ladies respecting each other. I don't understand how your mind translates a critique of Lana's and Lois's praise for Wonder Woman as demanding the polar opposite (i.e. butthurt). There's another option, you know, like saying something completely different or staging the scene better. I would have preferred if instead of making it so Lana and Lois are too far away and too late to get to Superman, they have arrived and are caring for him when Diana arrives, says hello to them, and they all say a grateful goodbye as the team takes Superman to safety. As they leave, Lana and Lois avoid unnecessary Bechdel Test failing nonsense (neither Lois nor Lana would find WW or SM/WW news, and neither have fresh or viable romantic ties with Superman) and say something that acknowledges that several people came to Superman's aid by keeping Lana's "super friends" line in some form. Like, "Wow, Superman's lucky to have so many super friends" (Lois and Lana smile at each other) ..."and human ones." End scene.

That not really a "better" scene, but more like a scene that YOU'D have liked better. Myself and others on here thought it was great scene.

[Auguste Dupin]

The discussion is about Wonder Woman, who appears in this preview and is a major part of the Doomed event, and the comments Lois and Lana made in the preview for a Superman book. I'm open to a change in subject, though, so do either of you have something about the preview you'd like to discuss?

Well, I certainly didn't realize that poor Diana's 3 panels' worth of appearance and someone acknowledging she was dating Superman warranted an essay about wether or not she's a Mary Sue.
But since you ask so nicely, how about:
-Wether or not the first symptoms of the Doomsday disease already started to kick in for poor Sup?
-What happened to Doomsday?
-Did Superman really punched out Luthor or did he just have a fantasy about it?
-What are Lois and Lana doing here?
-Do they know one another already (they seem to here, but we never saw them interract before)?
-Is Luthor going to play a role in this crossover?

[misslane]

Just waiting for you to respond to my last post actually.....

Well, you should have just said that in the first place. I totally missed it! I mean, if that was your primary concern I'm confused about how you went about getting what you wanted. But okay, let's see what I can do.

Most of all it was comedic to play with the Lana/Clark joke relationship. Also if you see Brad Pit the first thing you're gonna say is "oh my gosh it's Brad Pit". You'll say that for any celeb even if they are the most famous person on earth. It's like a reflex or something honestly.

It doesn't read as comedic except maybe a bit of a joke at Lois's expense. Lois tells Lana that she's looking at Wonder Woman, Lana says sarcastically "I know, Lois," and then Lois informs Lana that Superman and Wonder Woman are dating. Lana's response seems stiff and devoid of humor, "I get it, thanks," she says. It reads as Lois being over eager to fill Lana in on Superman's love life for who knows what reason (Lois knows Lana and Clark were a thing, not Lana and Superman, but maybe this is partly Brainiac talking), and Lana trying her best to tolerate Lois and to figure out her reaction to all of the drama and news. The stuff a little later in her inner monologue is more candid, for obvious reasons, and it doesn't feel humorous either. It comes across as a little melancholy, nostalgic, and proud.

Lana's not like this but she's sort of still re meeting this guy again and it's a little bit of a shift since the last time she saw him.

Lana's been a citizen of Earth watching Superman, Wonder Woman, and the League come into their own and she's just spent some quality time with him. I don't buy that she still has some adjusting to do. A lot of what's in these pages emphasizes how different Clark is now and how the distance between who he was and his human friends is wide.

[Auguste Dupin]

Huh? No one is mad about Lana not being jealous. I didn't want Lois or Lana to act that way and I like the idea of all of the ladies respecting each other. I don't understand how your mind translates a critique of Lana's and Lois's praise for Wonder Woman as demanding the polar opposite (i.e. butthurt). There's another option, you know, like saying something completely different or staging the scene better. I would have preferred if instead of making it so Lana and Lois are too far away and too late to get to Superman, they have arrived and are caring for him when Diana arrives, says hello to them, and they all say a grateful goodbye as the team takes Superman to safety. As they leave, Lana and Lois avoid unnecessary Bechdel Test failing nonsense (neither Lois nor Lana would find WW or SM/WW news, and neither have fresh or viable romantic ties with Superman) and say something that acknowledges that several people came to Superman's aid by keeping Lana's "super friends" line in some form. Like, "Wow, Superman's lucky to have so many super friends" (Lois and Lana smile at each other) ..."and human ones." End scene.

Well.....of course, it's just my own personal opinion and not some universal truth, but......don't you think that sounds super awkward?
I mean, why would Lana feel the need to mention his "human friends"? They have nothing to do with that scene, and it's not like there's any doubt in her mind that Clark values his human friends too.

[Superlad93]

Well, I certainly didn't realize that poor Diana's 3 panels' worth of appearance and someone acknowledging she was dating Superman warranted an essay about wether or not she's a Mary Sue.
But since you ask so nicely, how about:
-Wether or not the first symptoms of the Doomsday disease already started to kick in for poor Sup?
-What happened to Doomsday?
-Did Superman really punched out Luthor or did he just have a fantasy about it?
-What are Lois and Lana doing here?
-Do they know one another already (they seem to here, but we never saw them interract before)?
-Is Luthor going to play a role in this crossover?

Lex would probably like nothing more than to fight Superman as "the monster he truly is". He'll probably grinning ear to ear and drooling at the mouth as the roles are reversed and he's the hero. Just imagine Lex leading the charge on Superman with Clark's gf, best friend, his closest teammates, and heroes that were inspired by his example! The irony would probably give the man a heart attack hahahha

[Auguste Dupin]

Lex would probably like nothing more than to fight Superman as "the monster he truly is". He'll probably grinning ear to ear and drooling at the mouth as the roles are reversed and he's the hero. Just imagine Lex leading the charge on Superman with Clark's gf, best friend, his closest teammates, and heroes that were inspired by his example! The irony would probably give the man a heart attack hahahha

Probably, yes. Although I suppose Lex orgasming in public because he has an opportunity to kill Superman and remain a "good guy" wouldn't be too good for hs PR.
That's also why, regarless on Clark's actual disease, it would have been a very bad idea for Sup to follow Lex in his lab. The guy would probably just at the first opportunity to go "ho, well, looks like he's compromised and can't be saved. Miss Techmaker, would you please go get me my Kryptonite Shotgun?"

[Sacred Knight]

Huh? No one is mad about Lana not being jealous. I didn't want Lois or Lana to act that way and I like the idea of all of the ladies respecting each other. I don't understand how your mind translates a critique of Lana's and Lois's praise for Wonder Woman as demanding the polar opposite (i.e. butthurt). There's another option, you know, like saying something completely different or staging the scene better. I would have preferred if instead of making it so Lana and Lois are too far away and too late to get to Superman, they have arrived and are caring for him when Diana arrives, says hello to them, and they all say a grateful goodbye as the team takes Superman to safety. As they leave, Lana and Lois avoid unnecessary Bechdel Test failing nonsense (neither Lois nor Lana would find WW or SM/WW news, and neither have fresh or viable romantic ties with Superman) and say something that acknowledges that several people came to Superman's aid by keeping Lana's "super friends" line in some form. Like, "Wow, Superman's lucky to have so many super friends" (Lois and Lana smile at each other) ..."and human ones." End scene.

I don't mean that it means everyone wants to see Lana or Lois being jealous. But it seems there's a problem with them being vocally approving of her in general too. This just reminds me of the Brand New Day is all. Mary Jane couldn't do or say anything positive about Carlie without it being overanalyzed. Not all people wanted her being jealous, but they didn't much care for her praising the new girlfriend either.

In any case, sure there were other options. There's plenty of options to go with for all scenes. But none of those other options are necessarily better than what was shown. In my opinion your personal idea is in no way better than what we got. Its not worse, but there's nothing inherently better about it. It does fail the Bechdel test, but every scene that fails that test is not an automatic fail all-around. Some scenes are indeed intended to focus on a particular relationship. That's all Pak is doing here. He's acknowledging the relationship through the eyes of others in Superman's supporting cast. To me such a thing only become a problem if that's all said characters do over the course of this story.

[misslane]

Well, I certainly didn't realize that poor Diana's 3 panels' worth of appearance and someone acknowledging she was dating Superman warranted an essay about wether or not she's a Mary Sue.
But since you ask so nicely, how about:
-Wether or not the first symptoms of the Doomsday disease already started to kick in for poor Sup?
-What happened to Doomsday?
-Did Superman really punched out Luthor or did he just have a fantasy about it?
-What are Lois and Lana doing here?
-Do they know one another already (they seem to here, but we never saw them interract before)?
-Is Luthor going to play a role in this crossover?

Sticking to your discussion point rather than your commentary about my commentary, I've already said I think that (or at least hope) Doomsday is already having an effect given Superman's treatment of Lex Luthor. It doesn't seem off enough to be a fantasy, but maybe. I don't know what the point of exploring that kind of effect would be.

Doomsday was released from the Phantom Zone, and I believe The Tower wants to use him to take down a Superman they feel threatens the world because he draws threats to Earth and deals with threats irresponsibly. He's been shown capable of evolving, attacked wildlife, and recently attacking honeymooners. He seems to still be on a rampage, and it is at this point that Superman challenges Doomsday and gets hurt/infected.

Lana and Lois have never met before (Lois did learn about Lana from Clark's mementos in Morrison's Action Comics), and I have no idea why Lois and Lana are there. But if it has anything to do with Clark, I hope Lois doesn't look stupid for not picking up on Clark's secret identity considering it would be kind of odd for Lana to be so concerned about Superman if viewed from Lois' perspective where Lana and Superman aren't even friends. Heck, maybe by this point Lois' retention of Clark's secret courtesy of psionic powers and Brainiac is once more out in the open.

I think by being in this issue, Luthor is already playing a role in the crossover. I suspect he may have more involvement as well, but I'm not sure what kind.

That not really a "better" scene, but more like a scene that YOU'D have liked better. Myself and others on here thought it was great scene.

No, we're both picking what kind of scene we'd would like better. There is no objective "better" scene, as we're both presenting only our subjective opinions.

[hellacre]

Yeah, it's got a little "aw he's done some changing from what I know" but it's also filled with pride for this amazing being he's become. It just comes off as a very well layered introspective moment for Lana that has been building since Pak's first issue. Needless to say I think it's very well written.

Greg Pak answer from his tumblr when complimented about the way he's been handling Lana and the way she views her and Clark's relationship.

I thought it was only honest for Lana to be a little wryly aware of the pang she feels as Clark flies off with his superhero friends. But Lana’s also a grown woman and her high school romance with Clark is long behind her. He’s her oldest friend now, first and foremost. So yeah, overplaying any sense of jealously would feel out of character and overbaked.

[Superlad93]

Well, you should have just said that in the first place. I totally missed it! I mean, if that was your primary concern I'm confused about how you went about getting what you wanted. But okay, let's see what I can do.

Well it just seemed like you got side tracked by the Wonder Woman conversation right after we spoke.

It doesn't read as comedic except maybe a bit of a joke at Lois's expense. Lois tells Lana that she's looking at Wonder Woman, Lana says sarcastically "I know, Lois," and then Lois informs Lana that Superman and Wonder Woman are dating. Lana's response seems stiff and devoid of humor, "I get it, thanks," she says. It reads as Lois being over eager to fill Lana in on Superman's love life for who knows what reason (Lois knows Lana and Clark were a thing, not Lana and Superman, but maybe this is partly Brainiac talking), and Lana trying her best to tolerate Lois and to figure out her reaction to all of the drama and news. The stuff a little later in her inner monologue is more candid, for obvious reasons, and it doesn't feel humorous either. It comes across as a little melancholy, nostalgic, and proud.

Well if you look at it like Superman being one of the most eligible guys on the planet. Lana even calling him "the world finest" in the other issue (#28). When Superman is cleaning his cuts she thinks "What? I'm only human. Not every day you get to eyeball the world's finest" (as she sneaks a peak at Superman). Also it's establish elsewhere that Superman is one of the most sought after guys on earth. When the kiss was made viral one of the reactions was of anger/sadness over him being off the market.

So with that said it's more like "hey so mr. Perfect is off the market now and with mrs. Perfect" in a joking manner as it seems his attractiveness is roughly universal. OR you could read the scene like Lois point out Wonder Woman in a slightly "it's Angelina. Oh did you know she's dating Brad" type of manner. It's likely the first time she's seem them together in public after the kiss went to the net. Lana a little bit jealous like "oh he's got a super gf too? of course he does". With Lana's face and her words after I can firmly say it was comedic in nature.

Seems like you didn't see it this way.

Lana's been a citizen of Earth watching Superman, Wonder Woman, and the League come into their own and she's just spent some quality time with him. I don't buy that she still has some adjusting to do. A lot of what's in these pages emphasizes how different Clark is now and how the distance between who he was and his human friends is wide.

But.....that was literally illustrated through out the first arc. She said things like "Come on, Clark. Obviously, I get that. But you got all sneaky. That's weird. You're not sneaky, Clark." He says he's always been since he got his powers. She says "But not with me Clark. Not with me." He notices her face is draining blood. "It's been years. She wonders if she really knows who I-"

Then she LITERALLY says "I'm still figuring you out, Clark...but I wouldn't trust anyone more..." These are Pak's words. This is on the page. She trust him, loves him, and still remembers the boy that he was but she is still trying to understand the man he now is and the larger world that man lives in now.

I don't see how you can question this?

[misslane]

I'm not saying anyone wants to see Lana or Lois being jealous. This just reminds me of the Brand New Day is all. Mary Jane couldn't do or say anything positive about Carlie without it being overanalyzed. If offense over "butthurt" is taken, I retract that.

In any case, sure there were other options. There's plenty of options to go with for all scenes. But none of those other options are necessarily better than what was shown. In my opinion your personal idea is in no way better than what we got. Its not worse, but there's nothing inherently better about it. It does fail the Bechdel test, but every scene that fails that test is not an automatic fail all-around. Some scenes are indeed intended to focus on a particular relationship. That's all Pak is doing here. He's acknowledging the relationship through the eyes of others in Superman's supporting cast. To me such a thing only become a problem if that's all said characters do over the course of this story.

I prefer my suggested scene because it allows for Lois and Lana to actually interact with Wonder Woman in a more direct and touching way instead of a more detached gossiping way, and it keeps the focus on what is beautiful about this scene: Superman has many awesome friends from all walks of life. There is no need to show the relationship through the eyes of others in Superman's supporting cast. We've already seen it with Lois, for one. Lana's sense that Clark's among eagles now, so to speak, is the stronger and more poignant message which she could have thought in response to seeing all of the heroes. Singling out the romantic relationship when Lana and Clark were barely a couple, she left him in a really careless way, and when it requires portraying Lana as a weirdo who didn't know Superman and Wonder Woman were dating from the news and didn't bother to talk to Clark about his life during the time they spent together recently. If that's not something you prefer or you don't have problems with the scene as is, that's fine. We can just agree to disagree.

[misslane]

Seems like you didn't see it this way.

No, but that's because I'm not projecting upon the scene so much that isn't there in the scene itself.

But.....that was literally illustrated through out the first arc. She said things like "Come on, Clark. Obviously, I get that. But you got all sneaky. That's weird. You're not sneaky, Clark." He says he's always been since he got his powers. She says "But not with me Clark. Not with me." He notices her face is draining blood. "It's been years. She wonders if she really knows who I-"

Then she LITERALLY says "I'm still figuring you out, Clark...but I wouldn't trust anyone more..." These are Pak's words. This is on the page. She trust him, loves him, and still remembers the boy that he was but she is still trying to understand the man he now is and the larger world that man lives in now.

But seeing Superman with his super friends isn't an organic scene to address that. She's seen him with his super friends and knows what they look like and what they do. I agree that she's still figuring Clark out, but just seeing his teammates scoop him up and fly him away doesn't seem like a believable catalyst for such an important epiphany. Also, if the epiphany she was waiting for -- the one she wasn't getting from her earlier interactions with Clark himself -- was that he has super friends now that put him on another plane/status than the good ol' Clark, it's weird that seeing Superman with other heroes (which anyone could see in the news) would do the trick.

[Superlad93]

Probably, yes. Although I suppose Lex orgasming in public because he has an opportunity to kill Superman and remain a "good guy" wouldn't be too good for hs PR.
That's also why, regarless on Clark's actual disease, it would have been a very bad idea for Sup to follow Lex in his lab. The guy would probably just at the first opportunity to go "ho, well, looks like he's compromised and can't be saved. Miss Techmaker, would you please go get me my Kryptonite Shotgun?"

Hahaha! You've just made it so I'll be VERY disappointed if Lex isn't shown a good amount in this story line. Honestly just talking about implications like this is really getting me into this story more than I was before. It's all in the hands of Pak now.

In pak we trust

Greg Pak answer from his tumblr when complimented about the way he's been handling Lana and the way she views her and Clark's relationship.

That's pretty much what I thought as far as the little "jealously" thing went. Good to know Pak and I share a brain......if only