How Much of An Outsider is Superman?

[Tien Long]

Hey all. Just wanted to ask your opinion on how much of an outsider do you consider Superman? Indeed, this idea of being the outsider, the alien is prevalent in Geoff Johns' "Superman and the Legion of Superheroes" storyline:



A prevalent theme throughout the story is that Superman considers himself to be an outsider. The notion intrigued and slightly shocked me. A lot of people still have the notion that Superman embodies the establishment and the status quo. They label him as the truth, justice, and American way boy scout who looks too perfect. "Outsider" or "different" aren't associated with Superman in the way that they are with the X-Men.

After hard consideration, I think Superman is an outsider, but he can blend easier into mainstream society than others. Indeed, I'm reminded of the (in)famous story where Lois Lane became African-American and countered Superman's argument that he was an alien with him being the right color. In a way, yeah, he is (and I really don't like using this term because it's so loaded) privileged. However, I disagree with the notion that this somehow disqualifies him understanding other people's pain, being compassionate towards others, or helping others. We all know that Superman fights for and cares for everyone. That's good enough for me. Additionally, it doesn't disqualify that he's felt a sense of not belonging. Or how he's used that to make sure everyone feels like they belong.

So, how much of an outsider is Superman? A lot? A little? Completely? Not at all?
Does him being an outsider (or not) disqualifies him from understanding other people or championing their cause?

Any input would be great.

[Superfly Frankenstein]

The only thing I can even equate Superman as an outsider is that as Superman, he really can’t completely be himself, and as Clark as a reporter he can’t really be himself. The dichotomy of his duel identity is that the true persona is only seen by his closest friends and family. Therefore, his masks as Superman and public Clark make him feel like an outsider.

[Kuwagaton]

Eh... kinda sorta maybe sometimes. There's a sense of loneliness to what he is and ironically, much of it is from how people look at him. Being written off as a boyscout and the like. I almost wish I could call him an outsider because that does shock and intrigue people who don't normally read him, but that wouldn't really be honest. He's a good looking white guy borne of the greatest scientist from his world, with incredible and perfectly controlled powers on top of a good moral foundation. He has the strength to best the Hulk, the speed to compete with Flash, stronger beams than Cyclops and other varied eye powers, the senses of Daredevil, flight, technology, etc. The biggest supporting story for the outsider angle was the Wolfman run in the early 80s, but it kinda came off as a hollow Spider-Man riff. Superman brooding about his life doesn't work. Although the succeeding story to the one you mention, Secret Origin, touches on the initial xenophobia when he debuts as an alien hero. Another origin, Birthright, does a really great job with it. I would check that one out.

Superman is not perfect and definitely not the guardian of the status quo as it's somehow extrapolated. His great nemesis is the richest and greediest man in the world to start. It's more accurate to say that the X-Men in particular and the mutant plight in general is a story about the oppressed becoming the oppressors.

Superman fights for the underdogs and downtrodden whether it's the streets of earth or avenues of space. Which is one of those things, because that infamous scene where the old black guy calls out Hal Jordan for being distant doesn't really work if you're saving the whole planet. A story where a superhero cures society isn't a story, it's the end of a story. Superman has always had the type of stories that now end up on fox news, where he helps migrants in distress and leaves the rest up to us.

[Johnny Thunders!]

I imagine Superman as enjoying human beings and being human on a level we can't imagine. I think he delights and needs to be around the League, the Planet, and anywhere on Earth. At the same time, he walks across the sun, he can see things on a microscopic level and across dimensions, he has gone back and forth from one end of time and space to another. Gods, immortals, evolved beings, Superman pretty much stands out among them.

I don't think he is an outsider necessarily because I imagine him having the discipline to always be in the moment. Still I imagine the only being that maybe experiences time like he would is the Flash, maybe GL with his ring can simulate his access to info, Jon with his telepathy maybe has an even less filtered view of the world, though I think his super senses would have a sort of telepathy or cosmic awareness on some level. I am reading Adam Warlock by Jim Starlin right now and he reminds me of what Superman would be like if Superman had no ties to human beings. Dr. Manhattan as well, he reminds me of what would happen to someone if they suddenly became Superman, they just go nuts.

[Sacred Knight]

In my view, he should be an outsider in the sense that not many get to see his true self. He gets along with everyone, whether he's Clark or whether he's Superman, but those relationships have to be slightly impersonal because of the secrets he keeps. Not enough to have him skulking in the darkness in depression, but enough for some slight lamentation, while at the same time overall being content and happy with the relationships he does have, his overall love of the people of Earth, and his joy in being its protector.

[Superlad93]

Read Superman: Secret Identity. It's maybe the best comprehensive breakdown of Clark's relationship with being an "outsider." It's also one of the best stories the IP has ever produced.

[Flash Gordon]

I think strong senses of melancholy and loneliness are pivotal to the character.

"Clark Kent" can only get so close to people, and "Superman" is a mythic figure. I think there's room for the man in between both of those, to be genuine with people but it isn't the norm.

Of course the current Superman doesnt really have any of that, but whatever.

[bat39]

I think a lot of it also depends on the backstory and at what point he becomes aware of his alien origins.

For instance, I don't think the Golden Age Superman ever felt like an outsider, particularly, because he was simply unaware of his alien origins and probably just assumed he was a human being who happened to have extraordinary powers. He learns about Krypton when he's an adult, years into his career as Superman, and by that point, it really doesn't change his personality and sense of identity that much.

In contrast, the Silver Age/Bronze Age Superman could feel more like an outsider because he was aware all his life of his Kryptonian heritage and how different he was from most other people. Having to maintain a dual identity since he was a pre-teen probably contributed to the feeling of being an outsider as well.

With most modern versions, I think it really varies. They emphasize how growing up with his powers and having to hide them alienated him from his peers, to some extent, and how discovering his alien nature impacted him psychologically. But on the other hand, Superman, when he has the Kents or Lois or now Jon by his side, not to mention all the genuiene friendships he has formed as Clark Kent, has strong enough emotional 'tethers' to humanity to not feel like much of an outsider.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think Clark Kent felt very much like an outsider growing up, which greatly informs who he is as an adult. While the current Superman is this beloved guy who everyone wants to be around, Bendis has done a good job of showing how Clark actually keeps his distance from a lot of his peers. And, of course, the Clark Kent at the Daily Planet is absolutely an outsider by design.

The earliest Superman from the 1930s was also an outsider, who worked against the corrupt and powerful as a champion of the underdog. It wasn't until the WW2 began that Superman became fully entrenched as a defender of the establishment.

[Ascended]

Hey all. Just wanted to ask your opinion on how much of an outsider do you consider Superman? Indeed, this idea of being the outsider, the alien is prevalent in Geoff Johns' "Superman and the Legion of Superheroes" storyline:

You and I have talked about Shang Chi a fair bit in recent months over in his thread. Now you're in my playground and I can actually speak with certainty and knowledge of the character and his mythos.

It's hard to provide a concrete answer to this, because the answer shifts with each continuity and version, and to lesser degrees with each writer. Superman has seen more deviations from his status quo than most other characters. So the real answer is "depends on what year, title, and creator you look at."

But, overall? Yes. I think Clark's an outsider. And this is just my take on Superman of course, looking at the larger trajectory and history of the character more than any individual era (and I have a bias towards pre-Crisis stuff too). And I say he's an outsider. But not in the typical sense. I think most people envision an "outsider" as either being a rebel purposefully bucking social norms, or as someone who is morose and depressed because they don't fit in. Clark is neither of these things.

Almost everything about Clark Kent sets him apart from people. His senses, his powers, the way his brain processes information, his morality (his ethics are binary in a way few people share), etc. He perceives the world in a way that no one else does and all of this sets him apart from humanity. He has concerns and considerations the rest of us don't that he has to contend with every second of every day. He also doesn't have to worry about many of the things we do, and never has and never will. So to an extent, he's an outsider looking in at a "human experience" that he'll never fully be able to relate to, comprehend, or experience firsthand, despite being raised to share our values.

But while this does create a sense of isolation and loneliness, Clark's not a depressed guy. Clark knows that even though he's unique in the universe and, in many ways, completely alone....so is everyone else. See, Clark gets to see and hear everyone talking about their problems and feeling alone and isolated. He gets that "big picture" view and sees a lot of private moments (not that he spies, he just sees and hears so damn much) where everyone lets their guard down and mourns the things that make them stand apart. He knows his sensations of alienation are actually experienced by everybody. And in this way, Clark knows that the whole world is alone, together. And I think he takes great comfort in that; no one is as alone as they think they are.....and that must include him too, even if he sometimes has a hard time seeing it.

He's an outsider in many ways. Not all of course, but in many ways he is and he feels that separation from humanity. Poster Flash Gordon is correct when he says that Clark being isolated and alone is a major undercurrent in his personality. But he's, by and large, at peace with who and what he is and recognizes that the things that set him apart also enable him to make a huge difference and help people.

[The World]

There are dueling ideologies on the subject and arguments can be made for both. Pre-crisis Superman was a critic of conventional society/thinking and over time became more and more and odd man out in it as Clark Kent and Post-Crisis Superman as Clark Kent was basically the ideal of man of conventional society in the late 1980's/early 90's and was perfectly content with his adopted world and is place in it.

I guess Pre-Crisis Superman was basically a geek but pumped up to the gills with super powers. Fulfillment was a bit more ephemeral for him especially because it doesn't really seem like the things that bring most people pleasure, (money, women, food ,security, or status) didn't seem to have much meaning to Superman back then. The concept of happiness already seems like somewhat hard to pinpoint feeling as it is. There's a funny story by Gerry Conway I believe where Superman tries to behave more humanly and plays football but his knowledge of the sport is rudimentary at best and ends up running in an unforced safety and loses the game for his team. It kind of shows you that there is a certain lack of investment in American social norms.

Post-Crisis Superman kind of hit a sweet spot where his powers were relatively under developed as a kid and basically gave him just enough of a bump to be #1 in everything but not so much that he was left to exist in his own little world. I think John Byrne's thinking was along the lines of " You're a white, heterosexual male many leagues beyond anyone else in you local peer group. You should be living it up instead of being some little geek." So he and his successors basically pushed the character to being more invested in living to his full potential as Clark Kent, he won awards, all the women wanted, all the men wanted to be him, great athlete, handsome. He was more invested in normal people things and so he got more pleasure out of having them and thus happiness was probably easier for him to obtain. It's not entirely a wrong approach even if it's not my cup of tea.

Frankly I guess you have to look at the upsides of both approaches. Post Crisis Superman did the one thing Pre-Crisis Superman couldn't do; he got the girl and had a kid, hell he technically had two. However because he always had that kind of fulfillment as Clark Kent I don't think he ever really had the same fire for the Superman life the way Pre-Crisis Superman did and because of that he can't really measure up to Pre-Crisis Superman as a Superman.

[Vordan]

As the others have pointed it out, it varies based on continuity. The Pre-Crisis Superman very much was an outsider. He thought of himself as Kryptonian first and foremost, and often felt lonely because of it. “Clark Kent” was just a facade not actually really him. Post-Crisis I’d say he started off as very much as insider with Byrne. But there were still elements of alienation and those got more pronounced over time. Post-Crisis is when the idea that Clark and Lois couldn’t have kids got started, and I distinctly remember quite a few times where Clark fell into depression with being the Last Kent or Kryptonian. It’s why he was so overjoyed when he found Chris because now he and Lois could have a kid.

New 52 Superman was an outsider. He never attained the same widespread adoration Post-Crisis Supes got, and the early death of the Kents left him feeling angry and sad at the world and at himself. When Truth happened Clark became very much alone and cut off from everyone else, except perhaps Diana and Bruce. Rebirth Superman was the ultimate outsider at first, the only one who remembered how things used to be except for Wally. He had a lot of problems with the New 52 Earth and definitely felt alienated from everyone. Nowadays I’d say Clark is still an outsider, especially under Bendis. He’s polite but distant, still not telling Jimmy his secret for example.

Unlike Bruce with his huge family, Clark has always been more of a lone wolf. He never really mentored Kon or Kara, the only one he focused on developing as a hero was Jon. He never cultivated a relationship with the MPD like how Bruce allied with Gordon and Dent. It took him a while to even trust Lois with his secret. His morals have frequently been attacked as out of tune with the times, his costume as silly and stupid, his character as unrelatavle and unrealistic. He certainly seems to be someone not well-loved by the mainstream.

And finally a lot of people have read Supes as being about Siegel and Shuster’s experiences growing up as two Jews in 1920-30s America. His ability to “pass” as normal while still retaining his special heritage can certainly be compared to groups like the Jews, Irish, or mixed-race PoC in the present day. So he has that going for him, but honestly I’ve never found the X-Men or Supes to be great allegories for real life minorities. The X-Men live in a mansion, have cool powers, and look like Supermodels. Supes is pretty similar especially when Cavill is playing him lol. It just doesn’t really hold up in my view to the actual experiences minorities have.

[Jim Kelly]

I don't see much evidence that Clark Kent is an outsider. He was raised by Jonathan and Martha. He had many friends in Smallville. He works in Metropolis with a lot of people. He's not the kind of person who feels rejected by society.

Maybe in his Superman identity he feels like an outsider among the common man. But in the classic era of DC, the Man of Steel was always loved by the people and had lots and lots of friends. Maybe you could argue that as he travelled through time and space, his awareness was heightened which put him above most humans. However, he keeps going back to the people who keep him grounded. If he feels alienated, it's more like the person who leaves his working class neighbourhood to travel the world and become successful at a highly skilled profession, so when he returns to the old neighbourhood he feels a bit out of place and stuck between two worlds. Still, I don't think Superman is an outsider in the super-hero community--most of his work buddies are a lot like him. And the Man of Tomorrow is such a good, honest person that he wouldn't put on airs and consider himself better than the rest of the JLA.

On most TV shows, Clark is a pretty down to Earth kind of guy. There's nothing about the George Reeves Superman that suggests he feels excluded.

In the post-classic era of DC, it seemed that the argument was Clark is the real person and Superman is just a role he plays. And this version of Clark is even more grounded than the classic version. So how can he feel like an outsider if he's lived on Earth all his life and built relationships with other Earth people? This kind of outsider trope better fits characters that came to Earth later on in life, like Supergirl, Martian Manhunter, Hawkman and Starfire.

When it's done with the Last Son of Krypton, it's always too obvious that a writer is forcing this onto the character and it's not a situation that arises organically from the personality of Superman.

[Kuwagaton]

The New 52 is a really interesting take on this idea. Unfortunately it's completely uneven. The view starting with Perez, where he's basically treated like the Hulk, came from not really knowing what he was supposed to be. Not aligned with the take we saw from Morrison. It popped up intermittently, but if we see Truth as its height, well, that story is a pretty significant and intentional deviation for better or worse.

[Masterff]

Unlike Bruce with his huge family, Clark has always been more of a lone wolf. He never really mentored Kon or Kara, the only one he focused on developing as a hero was Jon. He never cultivated a relationship with the MPD like how Bruce allied with Gordon and Dent. It took him a while to even trust Lois with his secret. His morals have frequently been attacked as out of tune with the times, his costume as silly and stupid, his character as unrelatavle and unrealistic. He certainly seems to be someone not well-loved by the mainstream.

I dont see it in this way...

Yes Bruce has a big family, but it depends really on the interpretation, sometimes he is nice and good to everyone like in the Young Justice TV Series, who is so far my favorite take on Batman, sometimes no:
https://screenrant.com/worst-most-wt...-did-to-robin/


SUPERMAN mentored Kon sometimes, for example if you look at GRADUATION DAY, when Conner entered the Titans he mentored him, not long, but these day yes and he also sometimes had talks with him etc. but most of the time yes he let the Kents mentor him..


I personally would say Superman ISNT an outsider, but he is a person who cares more for others than for himself...

I would say for example that Diana is much more an Outsider than Superman...