X-Men #4 - Global Economics *SPOILERS*

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Lol that's a BIG "only thing" TBF.

And Charles spoke the biggest truth in this issue. He was literally assassinated within a month of Krakoa going public! The mutant-destroying Mother Mold was constructed in an even lesser time than that. His pragmatism shown here falls perfectly within the nucleus of reason. He still proclaimed to love humanity and never giving up on it. Anything more than that optimism would fall into dangerous foolishness, not just for him but for his entire people, especially with two SWAT teams closing in on him as he sat and spoke.

Alright, go on; what else can't he do that he would have normally? He's got his mutant nation, so there's no need to rally for that anymore and the one thing that prevents him from expanding it via force is Krakoa's law which, ya know, is great legally but doesn't make him (or anyone) fall in love with humanity. He even gets to declare himself a god and superior in every way to the humans he hates. Sounds like he's made it out pretty sweet.

And while it was wonderful to see Charles profess that, we do have to take it with a grain of salt; considering how Moira has stated she's set out to 'break' Charles of such idealism, how much does he actually mean it? How much has he ever meant, considering how manipulative he's been in the past? It's great to hear but I'd like to see it further expanded upon and proven. Acted upon even.

[Confuzzled]

And while it was wonderful to see Charles profess that, we do have to take it with a grain of salt; considering how Moira has stated she's set out to 'break' Charles of such idealism, how much does he actually mean it? How much has he ever meant, considering how manipulative he's been in the past? It's great to hear but I'd like to see it further expanded upon and proven. Acted upon even.

I mean, the whole being assassinated within a month of coming public with his nation thing doesn't really make his sincerity here or lack thereof matter at the end of the day. The humans should just be grateful he still claims to love and hope for them at this point.

[loke13]

Alright, go on; what else can't he do that he would have normally? He's got his mutant nation, so there's no need to rally for that anymore and the one thing that prevents him from expanding it via force is Krakoa's law which, ya know, is great legally but doesn't make him (or anyone) fall in love with humanity. He even gets to declare himself a god and superior in every way to the humans he hates. Sounds like he's made it out pretty sweet.

And while it was wonderful to see Charles profess that, we do have to take it with a grain of salt; considering how Moira has stated she's set out to 'break' Charles of such idealism, how much does he actually mean it? How much has he ever meant, considering how manipulative he's been in the past? It's great to hear but I'd like to see it further expanded upon and proven. Acted upon even.

I don't understand whats so hard to understand honestly? Charles is saying he still loves humanity but considering how viciously racist they are he's not going to be stupid about it anymore and just open arm trust them and hope they see the error of their ways.

I mean if you want to wait for some irrefutable evidence that Xavier was being genuine with his speech I don't think you're gonna find it because it's not there. You're either gonna have to trust him at his word much like the humans in this issue or not. Personally I'm looking at the context of the scene and determining that Xavier is telling the truth about still believing in co existence for one the scene loses any and all impact if he was lying just to manipulate the politicians it also lines up with Namor's thoughts on him back in HoX/PoX.

I don't think anybody its arguing that Xavier can't be a manipulative POS manipulation cones easy to a telepath just that in this instance Xavier still believes in peaceful coexistence between the two species. Time will tell if he's being naive about it tho considering Nimrod might come a knocking.

[Lucyinthesky]

Magneto stopped attacking human goverments 20 years ago(real time), his arc from HoM to Utopia has been about him reconciling his pov with the X-men pov. He doesn`t need a law to stop him from attacking people because he doesn`t mean to attack anymore if he didn`t do it right after Genosha was destroyed he`s not going to start now.

I agree the way Hickman is currently writting him seems to not take in consideration his previous character development but I think it`s also interesting how Magneto goes with this tirade of "Gods" when confronted with people directly or indirectly involved in the creation of institutions made to attack mutants. I have yet to see him lording over normal people that just want to live their lives in peace.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

I don't understand whats so hard to understand honestly? Charles is saying he still loves humanity but considering how viciously racist they are he's not going to be stupid about it anymore and just open arm trust them and hope they see the error of their ways.

I mean if you want to wait for some irrefutable evidence that Xavier was being genuine with his speech I don't think you're gonna find it because it's not there. You're either gonna have to trust him at his word much like the humans in this issue or not. Personally I'm looking at the context of the scene and determining that Xavier is telling the truth about still believing in co existence for one the scene loses any and all impact if he was lying just to manipulate the politicians it also lines up with Namor's thoughts on him back in HoX/PoX.

I don't think anybody its arguing that Xavier can't be a manipulative POS manipulation cones easy to a telepath just that in this instance Xavier still believes in peaceful coexistence between the two species. Time will tell if he's being naive about it tho considering Nimrod might come a knocking.

You mean, just like Moira's sentiments about believing in the same dream lose all impact since her ret-con? About how her interactions with characters now come across just as questionable? Considering how much hell the two have put the people who trust them through, why should we be expected not to question it?

Yes, it will lose impact if he's revealed to have been lying; but I wouldn't put it past him, because I don't believe that Hickman truly believes it either.

So for now, yes, I will have to wait for further proof or, at the least, efforts that make an attempt to legitimise the claim. If he backs it up, awesome, until then; I don't trust him.

[pkingdom]

Magneto stopped attacking human goverments 20 years ago(real time), his arc from HoM to Utopia has been about him reconciling his pov with the X-men pov. He doesn`t need a law to stop him from attacking people because he doesn`t mean to attack anymore if he didn`t do it right after Genosha was destroyed he`s not going to start now.

I agree the way Hickman is currently writting him seems to not take in consideration his previous character development but I think it`s also interesting how Magneto goes with this tirade of "Gods" when confronted with people directly or indirectly involved in the creation of institutions made to attack mutants. I have yet to see him lording over normal people that just want to live their lives in peace.

That little dig Magneto has about "we aren't the bad humans" was hilariously tone deaf. More than any other mutant, he is probably responsible for other mutants having to say that to people!

Also, Domino, tried to PM you. Its saying your PM box is full and you can't get any more messages until you delete some

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

That little dig Magneto has about "we aren't the bad humans" was hilariously tone deaf. More than any other mutant, he is probably responsible for other mutants having to say that to people!

Also, Domino, tried to PM you. Its saying your PM box is full and you can't get any more messages until you delete some

Oh ok, thanks dude!! Getting on it now!

[Lucyinthesky]

That little dig Magneto has about "we aren't the bad humans" was hilariously tone deaf. More than any other mutant, he is probably responsible for other mutants having to say that to people!

Also, Domino, tried to PM you. Its saying your PM box is full and you can't get any more messages until you delete some

lol that`s why I find Magneto being Krakoa`s ambassador fun, he`s not wrong, after all they just tried to kill them right during their dinner but he`s not the best people to say that given his history and he`s not beyond putting himself in the "I am a monster but so are you" position when it fits him, seeing him try to be an ambassador will be fun if nothing else. I would just like Hickman remeber that this same Magneto doesn`t have any trouble being perfectly civil or even nice, being a friend or even having romantic relationships with normal human beings when he`s not full in his Magneto persona, self appointed protector of mutants" mode. Bunn even made some really interesting takes on his internal conflict between being a good or better person for his own well being or being magneto because he thinks that makes a difference.

[DIVINITY]

best issue so far.

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️-Hickman

[Electricmastro]

"Evolve. Adapt. Becoming something more."

Hmm... interesting response to the questioning of mutants seeing the world as theirs.

[loke13]

"Evolve. Adapt. Becoming something more."

Hmm... interesting response to the questioning of mutants seeing the world as theirs.

God Yu was on fire this issue lol

I love how that US ambassador was worried about mutant aggression when it was the human aggression that led to Xavier being assassinated then what do the mutants do? Sit down with the humans for peace talks lol

[Electricmastro]

God Yu was on fire this issue lol

I love how that US ambassador was worried about mutant aggression when it was the human aggression that led to Xavier being assassinated then what do the mutants do? Sit down with the humans to for peace talks lol

And I hope the future writers write some of the humans more interestingly that way in terms of not responding to what makes them the least bit uncomfortable with threats and genocides. Regardless of the ideas Stan Lee and Jack Kirby built the X-Men on, writing the humans that way was getting pretty tiresome and boring, so I'm glad Hickman is basically rebelling against that with this writing.

[People Of The Earth]

But, see, that just further weakens the premise for me; the fact that Scott and Jean have been victims to this kind of manipulation before and haven't questioned possibly falling into it again?

It is possible that they were wary about the creation of Krakoa in the gap period between the end of Uncanny X-Men and the HoX/PoX run… and that we Simply haven't been privy to it yet.
Of course, this is an hypothesis that is based on litteraly Nothing, especially not by on-panel evidence, but who knows?
We saw Emma Frost show scepticism if not hostility toward Xavier when he pitched to her the idea of Krakoa in order to recruit her.
Maybe the same thing happened when Xavier did this process with his X-Men.

Oh 100% agree with all of that, especially in response to Magneto. In fact, I hope that there is a point where someone does bring up Anya in such a regard to see what happens.

It would be an interesting discussion, that's for sure!

Ah, see, I...don't actually trust that it was.

Nor do I actually trust Hickman to tout that approach further along the line. The impression that I get both from the interviews he gives and from the tone in his writing isn't one that offers any challenge to his own narrative; I feel like if he did then he'd have set that up far sooner. Especially now, considering Magneto's curt response of how Krakoa is the new normal and people have to just accept it. It doesn't really scream that he wants to invite any debate over it in a meta sense...which is extra frustrating.

But as for the bolded; I'm with you. I truly, truly want that to be the case, but again I just...I don't trust this guy to take it there.

Hmm, I see.
Well then, hope won't lie on his shoulders then, but on the ones of those writers who will eventually try and explore the depth of that particular avenue. Ultimately, eventhough Hickman is the architect of HoX/PoX, other writers have the liberty to use that setting to tell their stories and explore themes that they deem interesting enough to explore.
We might get Lucky and see another X-writer pick up that specific angle and run with it: on the ground, what does this isolation entails for the mutants and their sapien families/friends? Beak and his father for example.

I don't know if that's the right interpretation. Erik did say his methods have evolved. It was the perfect mirror to Charles talking about his belief system and how it has evolved without changing on a fundamental level.

Hmm, I Don't think that's the case at all.
When Erik say that his methods have Evolved, he meant it in a tactical sense imo: "Instead of crushing you in a blazing display of brute force and violence, I will asphyxiate you slowly, steadily, silently behind closed doors. You won't see me coming."
His goals are the same: mutant dominance over the rest of Humanity, the outcome too with total Victory being sought, only the execution differs.
And it's also smart in a sense that it goes Under the radar from organizations that are dedicated to subdue "blazing display of brute force and violence" like the Avengers, the Champions or the Fantastic Four - they Don't fight on those territories, nations do.

Krakoa is essentially Erik and Charles meeting midway in their ideologies, and that's what makes it different from Genosha or Utopia.

Debatable.
On a macro-scale, when considering the Hubs who'll serve as communal space between sapiens and mutants, the Gentech societies that Xavier bought and/or set-up with sapien friends, the trade partnership existing with other 616 nations? Yes, it can feel that way.
On the scale of Krakoa itself, the Mainland? That's not the case at all.
Krakoa is an isolated, insulated, mutants-only society for the time being.
It is a fact that is even acknowledged by the protagonists and their sapien counterparts in-universe as of this issue at the very least...
And I think the happenings on that Mainland are far more important, far more consequential and impactful to the future of mutant/sapiens relations than whatever is being done abroad on a macro-scale, however good it is.
The ideologies and culture of Krakoa will be shaped and developped on the Mainland.
And so far, the Mainland harbors far more antagonistic views and beliefs toward sapiens (see how the mutant children talk about sapiens for example), than examples of balanced perspectives.

[People Of The Earth]

"Evolve. Adapt. Becoming something more."

Hmm... interesting response to the questioning of mutants seeing the world as theirs.

Eventhough I know Xavier meant it in a moral sense, let's be real here: who would *gracefully* welcome their own extinction?
Absolutely no one.
The mutants (rightfully) NEVER did, even when they were pushed to the brink - so I Don't understand why Xavier expects the sapiens not to rebel against their condition either…
It is patronizing in both tone and mentality.
Especially when both branches of Humanity have the scientific means and technologies to stave-off their extinction.
Meh.

[The Quiet Councilor]

Eventhough I know Xavier meant it in a moral sense, let's be real here: who would *gracefully* welcome their own extinction?
Absolutely no one.
The mutants (rightfully) NEVER did, even when they were pushed to the brink - so I Don't understand why Xavier expects the sapiens not to rebel against their condition either…
It is patronizing in both tone and mentality.
Especially when both branches of Humanity have the scientific means and technologies to stave-off their extinction.
Meh.

The major difference being the sapiens want to perpetrate genocide against mutants, and mutants just want sapiens to accept it when their children are born mutants.