Should Marvel have an event that kills off a lot of dead wood?

[Mike_Murdock]

A more likely scenario is that someone would want to come in and write their favorite character D-Man and get told to make it Daredevil instead.

We're positing a world where Marvel has decided to kill those characters off. In that world, either direction is likely since it's a weird, weird world. That being said, short of Daniel Kibblesmith, I'm not sure anyone prefers to write D-Man over Daredevil.

[Blunt Guy]

Not to mention that if all the A-listers are gone, Marvel isn't far behind.

Somebody in this thread mentioned trying to push obscure characters to the forefront. I can think of a few that failed miserably just recently; Black Knight, Inhumans, Solo, Slapstick, Prowler, etc. New character failures- Mosaic, Unstoppable Wasp (twice), any Kate Bishop solo series, America, Silk, etc. It's not like Marvel doesn't try. The people who scream the loudest don't buy the books when they come out. How is Invisible Woman selling? I've seen posts here requesting a series for Sue many times, and one is finally available. Is it languishing near the bottom of the sales charts (I honestly don't know, but I suspect it is.)?

[scourge]

We're positing a world where Marvel has decided to kill those characters off. In that world, either direction is likely since it's a weird, weird world. That being said, short of Daniel Kibblesmith, I'm not sure anyone prefers to write D-Man over Daredevil.

The posited world has another problem. Guys like Daredevil only make a temporary stop in the land of death. Even if they were killed off, its more likely than not the hypothetical Daredevil fan would just be without Matt for a few months before he'd be back. Guys like D-Man? Only reason he's not still dead from some dumpster fire event is because Marvel Editorial is bad at their jobs.

Not to mention that if all the A-listers are gone, Marvel isn't far behind.

Somebody in this thread mentioned trying to push obscure characters to the forefront. I can think of a few that failed miserably just recently; Black Knight, Inhumans, Solo, Slapstick, Prowler, etc. New character failures- Mosaic, Unstoppable Wasp (twice), any Kate Bishop solo series, America, Silk, etc. It's not like Marvel doesn't try. The people who scream the loudest don't buy the books when they come out. How is Invisible Woman selling? I've seen posts here requesting a series for Sue many times, and one is finally available. Is it languishing near the bottom of the sales charts (I honestly don't know, but I suspect it is.)?

That's wrong on just about every level.

[SuperiorIronman]

Problems with sales happen for a variety of reasons and while many a time it's down to interest just not being there. Marvel does have issues in promotion of certain books. And in addition to that it's also why getting a book out on time is so important. Readers are fickle, we buy things we are looking for but not everything can fit within a budget. And if a book isn't out the day we happen to be at the LCS, it's entirely possible we'd pick up something else. The same can be said for digital since it's even easier to forget it's out since it isn't physically in front of you.

Status Quo can also kill a book like Prowler who from what I understood was about his clone working for the then Jackal whom I don't think anybody here was actually interested in. You also have people who are hesitant on a title that aren't familiar with and trade wait. That was one of the things that killed Scarlet Spider. Sure the Yost book was good and gone too soon, but that didn't translate to a "new" character who had middling reviews at best. Then you've got too many titles but more importantly the main book and it's spin-offs. People tend to gravitate towards the main title where the most relevant content is. Superior Spider-man can be argued it was as successful as it was because it was the main book.

[Blunt Guy]

The posited world has another problem. Guys like Daredevil only make a temporary stop in the land of death. Even if they were killed off, its more likely than not the hypothetical Daredevil fan would just be without Matt for a few months before he'd be back. Guys like D-Man? Only reason he's not still dead from some dumpster fire event is because Marvel Editorial is bad at their jobs.



That's wrong on just about every level.

What's wrong about it? It's the truth. Those are facts. It doesn't matter why. The point is that Marvel tries to push characters all the time, and in most cases, the books don't sell. Even before Disney bought Marvel, their purpose was to make money. If you think that only affects shareholders, you're wrong. The income for operating expenses and salaries of their employees comes from the sales of comics. The money left after the creators get their share goes right back into the business. When there isn't enough coming in, they have to either generate more or eliminate expenses. One way is cancelling unprofitable books that show no sign of turning around. Another way is to cut staff, which affects entire families. Marvel isn't there to produce whatever they want without regard to profit. Every employee depends on that profit for stable employment. My advice is that if a character you like gets a book, you better buy it. The more times something fails, it becomes less likely they'll visit it again anytime soon.

[KangMiRae]

I would rather time keep on moving.


Peter Parker in real time would be 70+. That’s a perfectly logical reason for Miles or someone else to replace him.

That sounds financially irresponsible. They'd lose money, but this is all make believe so sure, why not.

[Nyssane]

Only for popular characters.

For replaceable characters, death is very real.

Who exactly are you referring to here? I can think of heaps if D-Listers who are killed off in one issue and brought back with no explanation weeks, months, or years later.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Yeah didn't they say they were going to use the female yellowjacket in thunderbolts but marvel just killed her off (she was great in gotg. What a lame death and waste of a hero.) so they couldn't use her? Man that stinks as she could have took off.

Liked the female red raven. Never heard of her till the first issue of avengers arena and would love to read about her in champions or new warriors. Then they killed her off in the first issue. What a waste.

Blink was killed off right away then they used her in aoa and everyone loved her but marvel killed off the main universe version. People were demanding marvel bring her back for years and she was in the wizard mag top heroes AFTER she was killed for a long time! They had to bring in the aoa version years later. If marvel didn't just kill her off right away they would not have been in that rut!

In fairness, Blink was created to die, to motivate the survivors and give a sense of tragedy to the story. She wasn't pulled from obscurity

[Chris0013]

Not to mention that if all the A-listers are gone, Marvel isn't far behind.

Somebody in this thread mentioned trying to push obscure characters to the forefront. I can think of a few that failed miserably just recently; Black Knight, Inhumans, Solo, Slapstick, Prowler, etc. New character failures- Mosaic, Unstoppable Wasp (twice), any Kate Bishop solo series, America, Silk, etc. It's not like Marvel doesn't try. The people who scream the loudest don't buy the books when they come out. How is Invisible Woman selling? I've seen posts here requesting a series for Sue many times, and one is finally available. Is it languishing near the bottom of the sales charts (I honestly don't know, but I suspect it is.)?

Honestly I think they do need to cancel some of the duplicate ongoings like one of the Spider-Man books....and replace with a series of limited series that use the lower tier characters.

[scourge]

What's wrong about it? It's the truth. Those are facts. It doesn't matter why. The point is that Marvel tries to push characters all the time, and in most cases, the books don't sell. Even before Disney bought Marvel, their purpose was to make money. If you think that only affects shareholders, you're wrong. The income for operating expenses and salaries of their employees comes from the sales of comics. The money left after the creators get their share goes right back into the business. When there isn't enough coming in, they have to either generate more or eliminate expenses. One way is cancelling unprofitable books that show no sign of turning around. Another way is to cut staff, which affects entire families. Marvel isn't there to produce whatever they want without regard to profit. Every employee depends on that profit for stable employment. My advice is that if a character you like gets a book, you better buy it. The more times something fails, it becomes less likely they'll visit it again anytime soon.

Everything.

Not only is your argument a commonly used myth by comics gators to justify their BS towards any character that isn't a straight white male, but it grossly oversimplifies the situation. Yes, why matters.

Lack or proper marketing, Editorial interference and incompetence, and more have far more impact on books than "the character isn't A-list". And your "loud people don't buy the book" is also off. Fans that demand a book will buy it. What they won't buy is a fake. When they pick up a book expecting A and get X,Y,Z instead. Its a problem that I've noticed a lot over in the X-men side of things with the teen/student teams. Fans call for a book featuring the New X-men...Marvel responds with a bunch of characters no one wants and the fans are quite understandably not pleased. Rather than address the issue, Marvel shrugs it off and goes "Guess they don't want the book after all".

[Blunt Guy]

Everything.

Not only is your argument a commonly used myth by comics gators to justify their BS towards any character that isn't a straight white male, but it grossly oversimplifies the situation. Yes, why matters.

Lack or proper marketing, Editorial interference and incompetence, and more have far more impact on books than "the character isn't A-list". And your "loud people don't buy the book" is also off. Fans that demand a book will buy it. What they won't buy is a fake. When they pick up a book expecting A and get X,Y,Z instead. Its a problem that I've noticed a lot over in the X-men side of things with the teen/student teams. Fans call for a book featuring the New X-men...Marvel responds with a bunch of characters no one wants and the fans are quite understandably not pleased. Rather than address the issue, Marvel shrugs it off and goes "Guess they don't want the book after all".

Maybe the problem is there aren't enough people to support the books you're clamoring for. Once again, they are in the business of making money. They greenlight books they think will be profitable. They don't read message boards and then put out the opposite of what they see there. If there is a good idea that will sell, they'll do it. Otherwise, they have to rely on whatever data they get from their market research to determine if it's worthwhile. The base of consistent buyers has taken some big hits over the last decade, and the replacement buyers don't buy as much. It's actually the older readers who keep the small titles afloat for whatever time they survive. There aren't enough "new and diverse" readers coming in and replacing them. If it continues this way, the line will get even less diverse, because only sure-fire sellers will be made. By the way, I'm not giving you opinions. This is just the way things are. Unless somebody figures out how to get thousands of people to start buying comics regularly, it will just get worse. When I started reading comics, they were at every drugstore, grocery, convenience store, at the airport, at stores like K-Mart & Woolworth, and were .25 each. The rack was always where you could see them. Since they were cheap, it was easy to get a bunch at once. Losing that exposure is the reason the market got so small, and now they aren't so cheap anymore either. Find the new blood to replace people like me, and you'll be able to get whatever comics you want. There aren't enough now.

[SuperiorIronman]

Maybe the problem is there aren't enough people to support the books you're clamoring for. Once again, they are in the business of making money. They greenlight books they think will be profitable. They don't read message boards and then put out the opposite of what they see there. If there is a good idea that will sell, they'll do it. Otherwise, they have to rely on whatever data they get from their market research to determine if it's worthwhile. The base of consistent buyers has taken some big hits over the last decade, and the replacement buyers don't buy as much. It's actually the older readers who keep the small titles afloat for whatever time they survive. There aren't enough "new and diverse" readers coming in and replacing them. If it continues this way, the line will get even less diverse, because only sure-fire sellers will be made. By the way, I'm not giving you opinions. This is just the way things are. Unless somebody figures out how to get thousands of people to start buying comics regularly, it will just get worse. When I started reading comics, they were at every drugstore, grocery, convenience store, at the airport, at stores like K-Mart & Woolworth, and were .25 each. The rack was always where you could see them. Since they were cheap, it was easy to get a bunch at once. Losing that exposure is the reason the market got so small, and now they aren't so cheap anymore either. Find the new blood to replace people like me, and you'll be able to get whatever comics you want. There aren't enough now.

The current issue with singles goes back to the speculator boom. Over-saturation of the market with comics which for quality and or sheer quantity weren't worth a damn. The market basically went boom and everybody took a hit for it (and outright the reason Marvel looks the way it does today). Looking up sales figures from at least Comichron would indicate the market looking an awful lot like it does today save for a particularly large period in the 90's with the speculator boom in full swing.

Otherwise the market is about as if not as healthy as it's been since the late 80's with price adjusting to the market. And so according to the data we have that can't be an indictment of new characters or diversity. The argument had come up before and will since but what we have indicates that not being the case.

[Zero Hunter]

In fairness, Blink was created to die, to motivate the survivors and give a sense of tragedy to the story. She wasn't pulled from obscurity

You get that some times. It is obvious the character was created with a full story in mind, but the fans like them and want them back. The best example of this is Terra over in the Teen Titans. She was created with an ending in place, but fans and other writers keep trying to bring her back with very mixed results. The same with Blink. When they brought her back in AoA and latter Exiles it worked very well because she was not the main universe version. When they did bring back the main universe version she always just came off as a sad echo of the Exiles version.

[U.N. Owen]

Putting aside our feelings on death in comics, what scale would we even use to quantify dead wood?

No seriously, dead wood is rather hard to quantify. Not making x number of appearances in recent years? Having too similar powers? Losing uniqueness? We all know how the last one turned out in House of M, an event full of nonsense.

[Michael Watkins]

Not far enough. There should be an event that rewrites reality in a way that erases Marcus Johnson, Tony Stark's new parents, and Luke Cage's marriage to Jessica Jones. Dani Cage would still be around. She'd just have a different mother (maybe Claire Temple). Hell, I'm even ok with Jessica Jones being around even though she's a waste of space and a failed attempt to resurrect Jessica Drew (even stole her relationship with Carol Danvers). Marvel needs a homely drunk private investigator heroine I guess. Probably should have given that horrid civil war era journalist powers too; maybe retcon her into some established hero's backstory and give her a baby with Daredevil so no one will try to get rid of her.