Wanda Maximoff: Scarlet Witch Appreciation 2020

[Albert1981]

She is kind of a bad mom in all fairness. Reservations about the kids aside, it's really bad that they had her go through all this **** due to losing her kids. Their back in a way she claims them and barely talks to them, the writing for her as a mother is terrible, hopefully when WandaVision comes out and the inevitable mini comic to go with it she spends more time with her kids Vision too.

Yeah, that's a common criticism I hear about BOTH Wanda and Vision. That they're deadbeat parents who belong more on the Maury Show than in the Avengers when it comes to the twin boys. I know that Vision is giving all his love to Viv now, and it's a cool dynamic of him being a father. But it's a bad look that he doesn't acknowledge Wiccan and Speed at all. It doesn't help Wanda's image that she's not really involved in their lives either. But I just feel that Billy's and Tommy's origin stories are really complicated and hard for writers to work with. I think Wanda giving birth by magic to twins was sort of ridiculous too. I hope in WandaVision they give a PLAUSIBLE explanation on how they come into being, and then they adapt that story to the comic books.

[Journey]

Well, Wiccan and Wanda have a good relationship, i remember her healing him and giving him an advice on a bullying situation, the most recently interaction was during Civil War II, when all the Marvel mages send away that Celestial.

It's more like Marvel is not interested in writing about their relationship than anything IMO.

I agree, all I'm saying is it makes her look bad, M-Day was already controversial to say the least, Bendis basically said she lost her mind when the kids died, even though others say she was able to move past that. Anyways the fact she got a version of them back and hardly spends time with them just isn't a good look. I imagine Krakoans probably dog her out for it too. Like "this broad wiped us out and doesn't even blah blah blah".

The situation is just fucked up and convoluted on all sides, even more so now that Tini Howard through out the possibility that the current Minimoffs are just as fake as the last pair. Kudos to whatever writer eventually sits down and makes sense of this headache.

[Albert1981]

Justice League Dark isn't brutally violent for the most part. It would be more dark and scary than anything. And probably a lot of swearing. It'd be rated for teens, but not kids. But just like everything shouldn't be dark, not everything has to be for young kids. There are heroes for that demographic. Like Spider-Man, Cap, etc. Even for as dark and as violent as some Batman stories have been, there are those that aren't and kids can see just fine. I was 8 years old when Batman 89 was released. And it had a lot of violence. But it was fine to me. I still got the point that Batman was the hero, fighting back against bad guys. All the basics. There's a lot out there for kids. Some older stuff (teen +) isn't bad. So I don't think kids are being shut out at all. I think it's the opposite and things get tuned down a lot to appeal to a wider audience because of more ticket sales.

Again, my problem isn't with the darker stuff. It's bad editing and storytelling.

Now if everything is dark or everything is a joke, then it gets annoying. Because there's no variety.

I don't think that's been DC's problem though because movies like Wonder Woman, Aquaman and Shazam were not really dark. They just didn't have a good plan for their universe and the movies that failed did due to the story and editing.

Yeah, I remember watching Batman when I was really young too. Joker falling into that vat definitely left an impression on me as a child. Come to think of it, I actually don't think that movie was suitable for a kid my age at that time. In retrospect, I would have preferred to watch it later. But Batman and Daredevil stories are pretty much always violent. I just don't think Marvel/Disney would and should stray from their family-friendly approach to making movies. Disney toned down the grimness of the Bambi, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, and Pinocchio stories and deviated from the source materials MASSIVELY because they just wouldn't be palatable to mainstream audiences. And they were successful with their adaptations. I see nothing wrong with Marvel doing the same. I think it makes sense for Marvel to appeal to as wide an audience as possible, even if they have to water down some stuff. Just as long as they adhere to the spirit of the stories they are adapting. This approach has made Marvel shitloads of money, so I understand why they are doing it. Too much humor and too much darkness is bad. But I think Marvel's movies thus far have balanced things fine. The writing, pacing and editing for the MCU has been consistently good in my view. The DC stuff that has succeeded have all had a lighter touch to them. So I think the secret sauce to success at the box office is comedy with great CGI. WandaVision I imagine will take out the problematic "adult" stuff for their show, and I think that's a great thing. Let's keep things fun I say!

[Albert1981]

Captain America: The Winter Soldier was a different film genre than the first one (a spy thriller instead of period war drama) but the character himself didn't change. Thor: Ragnarok was not only essentially a comedy instead of a Shakespearean drama like the first two films, but the character himself was retooled to exercise Chris Hemsworth's comic abilities. Before Ragnarok, people were writing off Thor as a character and calling him a dud until suddenly he became known for only cracking jokes. And the comic version has been altered to fit this new humorous version even though the classic incarnation of the character wasn't anything like that and we've had him since the 1960s. So I'm worried that if Wanda gets too humorous in the MCU to appeal to viewers, the comic version will change as well. The same thing happened with the Guardians of the Galaxy and particularly Star-Lord and fans of those characters before the MCU film still complain about how different they are in the comics now.

She-Hulk has always been a humorous character, or ever since John Byrne got his hands on her and made her into a popular character. Janet has always relied on her humor since she was created. Carol I wouldn't say is known for being a comical character. She has her own one-liners every so often, but she's also very serious from her discipline in military life.

I was hoping the Tom King series would end with Wanda and Vision together again but clearly not. They do have some sweet moments together though and still clearly care about each other.

I think movie adaptations which change characters a lot in order to make for better storytelling is perfectly fine in my opinion. I would actually encourage that. These are adaptations, so I'm okay with major alterations in film/television mediums. For the comic books, I have mixed feelings. You want to take successful and popular film adaptations and help make the comics better. But sometimes things get lost in translation. I know Mantis, Star-Lord, and Drax were total badasses in the books, but they are not like that in the pictures. So I get the anger coming from the readers there. I actually don't mind making Wanda and Vision more funny in the books. The two of them have been fucking miserable for over thirty years! So I don't object at all if Vision cooks paprika for Wanda and she goes full Gordon Ramsay on him when it's not up to her standards.

I think it is hard for exes to reconcile after thirty years apart. A lot has happened since Vision and Wanda broke up. But I still think readers like that pairing the best. They tried to do something with Wanda and Wonder Man, and basically nobody really cared except for some writers at Marvel. Which made me feel a little bit bad for Simon. I'm just happy the movies are portraying the couple in a much more healthier light. It's clear that Feige, Whedon, Markus and McFeely, the Russos and even Waititi like Vision and Wanda a lot and that's really great for us fans of those two. If Byrne, Bendis, Brevoort, and Quesada were running the MCU, Wanda and Vision probably wouldn't even be there.

[Sutekh]

I feel like Thor: Ragnarok *had* to retool Thor to take it in a more comedic direction, because that's what Chris Hemsworth brings to the table. (And I laughed plenty during the movie, what he's good at, he's darn good at.)

I don't feel like Olsen has that sort of limitation, as an actor, and can carry a more serious tone as the Witch, or an occasionally humorous one. WandaVision doesn't *have* to go full comedy, because she's got enough range to pull off a serious Witch, IMO.

[Cruelrain]

The actors kinda explained imo, from what i understand, the sitcom scenes will be comedic but there will be moments when Vision glitzes or weird things happen, or Wanda starts to see what is happening

And the other half of the series was said to be just like an MCU movie, with the fights and final villain etc

[Cruelrain]

I hope Wanda and Vision get some good fight scenes, especially Vision since i think the fights with him can be more CGI


meanwhile Wanda only needs the efects for flying and her energy projection, but it's true that we are going to finally see Wanda as a Witch so i hope we see good efects for her magic and for Agatha.

[leokearon]

I feel it's almost impossible too. The boys' origin story is just WAY too convoluted. How can you be a mom to kids who already have parents and were raised by them to adolescence? I think creators at Marvel just can't do anything there. In order for her to be a mother, she has to have a closer and more REALISTIC connection to them. That's why in WandaVision I have a feeling they will do away with the whole reincarnation thing because television audiences will think it is just as silly as comic book readers think it is.

The whole reincarnated souls thing is a mess esppecially as Wiccan and Speed are older then their souls.

[Albert1981]

I feel like Thor: Ragnarok *had* to retool Thor to take it in a more comedic direction, because that's what Chris Hemsworth brings to the table. (And I laughed plenty during the movie, what he's good at, he's darn good at.)

I don't feel like Olsen has that sort of limitation, as an actor, and can carry a more serious tone as the Witch, or an occasionally humorous one. WandaVision doesn't *have* to go full comedy, because she's got enough range to pull off a serious Witch, IMO.

Oh yeah, I agree. Hemsworth was reportedly seriously losing interest in continuing the role because of how "boring" he perceived it to be. So I'm happy they fixed things even though Hemsworth's and Waititi's take strayed FAR from Thor's comic book portrayal. Now Thor and Loki are as popular as ever. I have no doubt Bettany and Olsen can do serious dramatic stuff. They've proven time and time again that they are fully capable of it. What I'm saying is that people are underestimating how FUNNY the two of them are. And they ARE funny. So I think Vision and Wanda will be both serious and humorous during the show. Conversely, I think Chadwick Boseman is turning into Hemsworth part deux. Everytime I see him, he looks absolutely miserable when he talks about the Black Panther. And I think I know why. He has to play this stately and regal monarch SO straight and he knows the franchise is a major cultural phenomenon. He's not allowed to be fun and humorous and was oftentimes not even the star of his own movie! I think they have to change his character a LOT for him to love it the way Hemsworth loves playing Thor. I didn't even think Bettany was too keen on playing Vision during the Infinity Saga. But look at him now. He is absolutely thrilled to be portraying the android in WandaVision and Olsen appears overjoyed to be playing Wanda right now. That's a good sign for the show. Boseman's unhappiness bodes badly for future Black Panther installments.

[Albert1981]

I hope Wanda and Vision get some good fight scenes, especially Vision since i think the fights with him can be more CGI


meanwhile Wanda only needs the efects for flying and her energy projection, but it's true that we are going to finally see Wanda as a Witch so i hope we see good efects for her magic and for Agatha.

Yeah, Vision and Wanda were great in the Age of Ultron. Total badasses there. Ever since then Vision seems more interested in cooking (unsuccessfully) and dying (successfully). Then again, him coming back for WandaVision shows that he wasn't too great at dying either. But I'm pretty sure the two of them will get plenty of action. I think Photon will actually be involved a lot too. I believe Dr. Strange will also show up at the VERY end of the series, but he won't do any fighting because this is Wanda's and Vision's chance to shine. What I'm curious about is what Quicksilver, Wiccan and Speed will be up to at this point. I talked with leokearon and we thought Jimmy Woo and Darcy Lewis might not be able to contribute a whole lot to the fighting. But Pietro, Billy and Thomas certainly can. I just don't think Vision and Wanda can fight off NUMEROUS and POWERFUL demonic hordes just by themselves. Bettany described the action at the end of WandaVision as EPIC, so I'm thinking this might not be like an Iron Man, Captain America or Black Panther movie. It might resemble an Avengers movie more. We'll just have to see.

[Albert1981]

The whole reincarnated souls thing is a mess esppecially as Wiccan and Speed are older then their souls.

They can fix this mess in WandaVision once and for all if they're creative enough.

[GenericUsername]

Yeah, I remember watching Batman when I was really young too. Joker falling into that vat definitely left an impression on me as a child. Come to think of it, I actually don't think that movie was suitable for a kid my age at that time. In retrospect, I would have preferred to watch it later. But Batman and Daredevil stories are pretty much always violent. I just don't think Marvel/Disney would and should stray from their family-friendly approach to making movies. Disney toned down the grimness of the Bambi, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, and Pinocchio stories and deviated from the source materials MASSIVELY because they just wouldn't be palatable to mainstream audiences. And they were successful with their adaptations. I see nothing wrong with Marvel doing the same. I think it makes sense for Marvel to appeal to as wide an audience as possible, even if they have to water down some stuff. Just as long as they adhere to the spirit of the stories they are adapting. This approach has made Marvel shitloads of money, so I understand why they are doing it. Too much humor and too much darkness is bad. But I think Marvel's movies thus far have balanced things fine. The writing, pacing and editing for the MCU has been consistently good in my view. The DC stuff that has succeeded have all had a lighter touch to them. So I think the secret sauce to success at the box office is comedy with great CGI. WandaVision I imagine will take out the problematic "adult" stuff for their show, and I think that's a great thing. Let's keep things fun I say!

The lighter DC stuff also had better scripts and editing. And still had darker parts. Like kids being kidnapped in Shazam. WW1 stuff in Wonder Woman. Including chemical warfare. All of the gods being executed too. Suicide Squad was lighter with some darker aspects as well, but I found the movie to be terrible still.

[Albert1981]

The lighter DC stuff also had better scripts and editing. And still had darker parts. Like kids being kidnapped in Shazam. WW1 stuff in Wonder Woman. Including chemical warfare. All of the gods being executed too. Suicide Squad was lighter with some darker aspects as well, but I found the movie to be terrible still.

Oh yeah, the writing was MUCH better for the more light-hearted DC movies. But I just think the writers, directors and actors and actresses have WAY more fun doing funny things and it often leads to increased creativity in many cases. Look at Chadwick Boseman. The Black Panther franchise is really hot right now. But does he look happy to you? I actually think he's miserable. He's not allowed to display any emotion and have any kind of real personality. I think Black Panther 2 can do even better if they crank up the humor and drop some of the more serious stuff. So yes, maintain some mature themes, but keep things jolly and you've got a winning movie/television formula. Be honest, wouldn't you be amused if Wanda goes full Gordon Ramsay on Vision for not cooking paprika up to her standards? Like her yelling "Get it together, Vision! This **** is not paprika!" I know I would and so would many others.

[GenericUsername]

Oh yeah, the writing was MUCH better for the more light-hearted DC movies. But I just think the writers, directors and actors and actresses have WAY more fun doing funny things and it often leads to increased creativity in many cases. Look at Chadwick Boseman. The Black Panther franchise is really hot right now. But does he look happy to you? I actually think he's miserable. He's not allowed to display any emotion and have any kind of real personality. I think Black Panther 2 can do even better if they crank up the humor and drop some of the more serious stuff. So yes, maintain some mature themes, but keep things jolly and you've got a winning movie/television formula. Be honest, wouldn't you be amused if Wanda goes full Gordon Ramsay on Vision for not cooking paprika up to her standards? Like her yelling "Get it together, Vision! This **** is not paprika!" I know I would and so would many others.

I don't think he looks miserable at all. I don't think you need fun for good acting either. There are lots of great movies that are dramas or dark. You need good scripts. I don't think I'd want Wanda acting like that either though. Because it's very against her personality. I just want them to treat her better than they did in comics.

[Albert1981]

I don't think he looks miserable at all. I don't think you need fun for good acting either. There are lots of great movies that are dramas or dark. You need good scripts. I don't think I'd want Wanda acting like that either though. Because it's very against her personality. I just want them to treat her better than they did in comics.

I was just exaggerating about Wanda using profanity and getting into it with Vision. But I have no problem having them fight in their show. Pretty much all couples do it, and it's a natural thing (even between a witch and an android). Sitcoms love that kind of conflict. I think the writers will treat Wanda just fine on Disney+. Jac Schaeffer doesn't look like she would be interested in accepting ANY ideas from Byrne and Bendis in her work. It would go totally against her previous comments about making "big, positive statements." She even stated how excited she was about working on female-centred stories, so I have high confidence in how the show will portray the Scarlet Witch. She explicitly mentioned that she was not interested in adhering to comic canon that is discriminatory in any way or that violates her values systems (a lot of fanboys vocally objected to these sentiments apparently). I'm actually a little bit surprised that you don't seem to have as much confidence in Schaeffer as I do, to tell you the truth.

I guess we look at things different. I just get the sense that the whole Wakanda salute stuff wearies Boseman and he is more interested in doing indie projects. I feel like he is a little bit overwhelmed with the whole Black Panther phenomenon. And he recently lost a LOT of weight. In his press conferences he comes off as really reticent and reserved, unlike Bettany and Olsen who are bubbly and funny. Doesn't mean he's not enjoying himself, but his statements about not wanting to do any Disney+ projects and that of all the things he was excited about doing in the future, none of them included franchises shows a certain lack of interest to me in his Marvel endeavors. Maybe I'm way off base, but that's my feeling.

I thoroughly enjoy serious dramas by the way! I'd say a decent majority of the stuff I watch today are documentaries on PBS and often times the subjects they cover are not pleasant ones. In fact, some of them are downright sad. But I like them because I learn a lot from them. I just think superhero movies should be more lighter in nature. I watch the MCU ones because they have a good blend of action/adventure, comedy, special effects and heartfelt moments. And it's easy to watch them many times over. I mean, you literally can NOT have a bad time watching those old pre-MCU Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies because of their cheesy campiness. Whereas I couldn't stand watching the Amazing Spider-Man movies because of their total lack of humor and complete absence of any sign of life (they almost killed my interest in Spider-Man to be honest). But that's because the writing, editing and pacing sucked in them. So I say dark themes can work very well in dramas which I often like. It's when they try to go gritty in superhero films, I usually lose all interest. Because they usually go overboard with that stuff. Even the Batman/Joker stuff of the past fifteen years seem like dramas to me with some superhero elements. And those kinds of movies, in my view, can often lead to OVERACTING, which is REALLY annoying. You don't get that kind of thing in the MCU which I like.