Did Chris Claremont hate cyclops?

[lancer]

Summary of the scene in question from Uncanny X-Men #120:

Having left the Savage Land, hoping to return to warn Professor Xavier of Magneto’s threat, the X-Men finally seem to be on their way. Sunfire warmly shakes Cyclops by the hand for all their help in saving Japan. Cyclops replies that, should he ever return to the States, their home is his home. He asks the X-Men to board the plane but Nightcrawler notices that Wolverine is nowhere to be found.

Not too far away, a limousine with Mariko Yashida inside it receives a tap on the window. She opens it and a gloved hand reaches inside. On the palm sits a white chrysanthemum, which surprises her. She looks through the window and sees Wolverine, who tells her it’s a gift; something to remember him by. She says it’s very beautiful and Wolverine replies that so is she. He tells her his name is Logan and bids her farewell.

Wolverine rejoins the team and they head for America aboard a custom-built DC10, owned by lawyer Jeryn Hogarth. Passing over the Alaskan coast, the pilots, Annie and Jill, find the weather becoming gradually worse. Anchorage and Juneau airports are closed and conditions at Seattle and Vancouver are deteriorating. It looks like they’ll have to jump the Rockies. Annie heads off to inform the X-Men of the situation, finding Colleen Wing asleep besides Scott. They’ve been together ever since the plane took off. She wakes Scott and asks him to come up to the flight deck.

OK, so ha ha. Yes, they literally fell asleep next to each other.

The point is that Scott and Colleen never had sex with each other. Nothing in this story indicated that they did. Read sex into it if you want, but that's your personal headcanon, not canon.

I once got into an argument with someone over this very issue. They weren't claiming that this issue implied they had sex. However, they insisted that it showed how close they were, that they were a couple.

Again, they weren't. I used to call them internet myths. The Jean/SCott entity was an internet myth. THis supposed romantic relationship, with Colleen Wing, the same. As I said before, at some point, something may have been planned or in the works. There is enough interaction there that a hook up may have been under consideration. It's not arguable that she is interested in him. However, nothing happened. Forget sex. No kiss. No almost kiss. No conversation, or thought bubbles, from SCott that indicate a romantic interest.

[Triniking1234]

No, he wanted to do to Cyclops what he did with Banshee, Angel, and Havok among others. He wanted to set them aside and be able to use them whenever he wanted to later. It is not really an issue of having Scott get married and having a kid, but that fix that the Editor wanted to put Scott back in a relationship with Jean. He could have come back for X-Factor without leaving his wife.

Claremont's plan was to move out the old guard and bring in new people anyway so him pushing those characters aside would make sense with that plan. Also Cyclops had to leave his wife and kid because the guys who plotted X-Factor wanted a status quo similar to Lee and Kirby X-Men. IIRC Claremont was against X-Factor which is why Jean's post-Dark Phoenix Saga resurrection took place in Fantastic Four.

[spirit2011]

Well, I don't think there's ever really any justification to cheat, regardless of who's doing it or why.



Friend, you and I have been down this road before, regarding Jean and Scott and Emma, and I don't think we'll see eye to eye.

As far as Scott's treatment of Jean and Maddie, as others have pointed out, why doesn't Scott get the benefit of editorial mandates, deus ex machinas, and retcons as a defense in this regard?

Because a character has to suffer consequences for the bad things he did. Cyclops can always count on being a white male character to get sympathy and lots of fans after all the crap he did.
Also jean, wanda, captain america all suffered consequences for the crap they did.

Morrison said it was ok for Scott to cheat on jean because she wasnt his wife anymore. he just forgot to write it into his story

[Hellinoze]

Off topic (sorry)

With all the nostalgia fest that Marvel is throwing at us, do you think it's time for CC to come back for a new book ?

[Havok83]

Off topic (sorry)

With all the nostalgia fest that Marvel is throwing at us, do you think it's time for CC to come back for a new book ?

No. Nostalgia fest is about the characters, not creators

[Havok83]

double post

[Hellinoze]

Well, I loved his original run. Loved his revolution Jean, but his run was awful. Liked X-Treme at the beginning. Didn't care at all about X-Men Forever, even if Jean was in it.

So big no for me. But I know some fans really like his over writing verbose style.

[CuteClops]

Off topic (sorry)

With all the nostalgia fest that Marvel is throwing at us, do you think it's time for CC to come back for a new book ?

As long as he stays away from Cyclops and never, ever mention his name again...

[Hizashi]

Because a character has to suffer consequences for the bad things he did. Cyclops can always count on being a white male character to get sympathy and lots of fans after all the crap he did.
Also jean, wanda, captain america all suffered consequences for the crap they did.

Morrison said it was ok for Scott to cheat on jean because she wasnt his wife anymore. he just forgot to write it into his story

How does Scott being white in any way shape how I, a brown Hispanic, feel about him? If Morrison didn’t “write it into his story” then you’re the one reading something that isn’t there.

Characters should suffer consequences for their questionable actions, but if the actions are intimate then the consequences should be as well. When have the Avengers truly paid for their actions, which are just as bad if not worse? Cap got deus Ex Machina’d outta the Hydra status (or he’s still Hydra and there’s a dream-Cap running around, idk). What about Tony? Scott’s treatment in-universe is not equivalent to his peers.

[wano]

Because a character has to suffer consequences for the bad things he did. Cyclops can always count on being a white male character to get sympathy and lots of fans after all the crap he did.
Also jean, wanda, captain america all suffered consequences for the crap they did.

Morrison said it was ok for Scott to cheat on jean because she wasnt his wife anymore. he just forgot to write it into his story

What's that supposed to mean? I'm Asian and I can root for a character of any race, black or white, Asian or Jewish

[perdid06]

Do we know how much influence John Byrne had on writing x-men during his collaboration with Chris Claremont??
I find That I like very much the era, where it was the Claremont / Byrne duo on X-men, I didn't like it as much after Byrne left, and I didn't enjoy that much x-men forever, didn't like X-TREME or revolution....while I liked Alpha flight Byrne era very much
I felt that during the Byrne-claremont era, Cyclops was interesting and what I think is the definitive Cyclops, great leader, great strategy , in touch with his team needs the perfect field leader, but very shy guy outside of "work"
So for me I think Byrne was a very important element of what made the x-men "magic" at this time....and I don't think Byrne hated Cyclops!

[Hellinoze]

I think Byrne had a large influence on CC's stories. And thinking about it, I also loved Byrne's Alpha Flight (that the man himself hates), Loved his FF run, loved his West Coast Avengers run (that most of Avengers fans hate)
I never noticed that, but yeah, I prefer Byrne runs than CC's.

[FUBAR007]

Because a character has to suffer consequences for the bad things he did. Cyclops can always count on being a white male character to get sympathy and lots of fans after all the crap he did.

Cyclops didn't suffer much in the way of consequences because of a combination of editorial/marketing mandates, Marvel's selective approach to continuity, and certain writers and editors using him as a Mary Sue.

If white male privilege was at all a factor, it was in the background.

Morrison said it was ok for Scott to cheat on jean because she wasnt his wife anymore. he just forgot to write it into his story

Absolutely correct. We didn't see Jean outright reject Scott or push him away. That piece was missing. Instead, as Morrison wrote it, it was Scott who pushed Jean away and turned to Emma instead.

[SpiderClops]

Cyclops didn't suffer much in the way of consequences because of a combination of editorial/marketing mandates, Marvel's selective approach to continuity, and certain writers and editors using him as a Mary Sue.

If white male privilege was at all a factor, it was in the background.



Absolutely correct. We didn't see Jean outright reject Scott or push him away. That piece was missing. Instead, as Morrison wrote it, it was Scott who pushed Jean away and turned to Emma instead.

Oh for god's sake. That's not what a Mary Sue is. I'm not going to explain this time.

[FUBAR007]

Do we know how much influence John Byrne had on writing x-men during his collaboration with Chris Claremont??

A lot. Byrne and Claremont were co-plotters on their Uncanny X-Men run.

I find That I like very much the era, where it was the Claremont / Byrne duo on X-men, I didn't like it as much after Byrne left, and I didn't enjoy that much x-men forever, didn't like X-TREME or revolution....while I liked Alpha flight Byrne era very much
I felt that during the Byrne-claremont era, Cyclops was interesting and what I think is the definitive Cyclops, great leader, great strategy , in touch with his team needs the perfect field leader, but very shy guy outside of "work"
So for me I think Byrne was a very important element of what made the x-men "magic" at this time....and I don't think Byrne hated Cyclops!

In the past, Byrne has identified Cyclops as one of his favorites, referring to him as "Mr. X-Men".