Fate of "Prime Earth" (New 52) Superman Speculation

[MarvelMaster616]

After reading all the spoilers and assessing all the Rebirth details, I find the fate of New 52 Superman to be so...callous. This isn't the same as him losing a fight to Doomsday. It's not him at the end of All-Star Superman making the ultimate sacrifice. This is just DC randomly giving him a terminal illness that he didn't need to have and using it as a way to take him out of the picture. And why? Because he's not hopeful enough? He can't give the DCU the same hope and optimism that they're looking for? Why? It's not like he's Batman or the Outlaws. New 52 Superman embodied the same hope and idealism that Superdad did before the New 52. I honestly can't see how this does anything other than to backtrack on some of the decisions they made prior to the reboot. It feels like a regression, an attempt to have their cake and eat it too. Marvel tried this with Spider-Man when they did the original Clone Saga. It did not work out well in the long run.

I got nothing against Superdad. I think he's a good AU character. But forcing him into a role and forcing New 52 Superman out of his in an overly contrived way is just callous and crass. And that's not what I want in a Superman comic.

[NeonZ]

To be fair, he's going to die in battle, not from the illness.

Anyway, I wonder when they decided to take this direction with Rebirth (reverting some changes and memories back to pre-Flashpoint). If it wasn't planned far ahead enough, it's possible that N52 Superman is being killed and revealed to be a clone or a stand-in because Pre-Flashpoint Clark is already around now, and they can't have two "Pre-Flashpoint" Clarks with the way Rebirth seems to go. So, the new guy had to be removed somehow in order to line up with Rebirth's overall direction.

The whole "super-league" storyline being solicited and then being changed into "last days" suggests that it was a recent change - so they probably didn't know Rebirth was going in this direction when they decided to make the Pre-Flashpoint Superman make it to the main Earth, and it was just a coincidence, but one that meant that the New52 Superman couldn't continue to exist as the main Superman.

[Kuwagaton]

After reading all the spoilers and assessing all the Rebirth details, I find the fate of New 52 Superman to be so...callous. This isn't the same as him losing a fight to Doomsday. It's not him at the end of All-Star Superman making the ultimate sacrifice. This is just DC randomly giving him a terminal illness that he didn't need to have and using it as a way to take him out of the picture.

Doomsday's whole theme was, literally, random and callous. The story was built on cut away shots of a rock monster punching random things it came across and then it turned out that Superman was merely the ultimate random thing to punch. Of course All-Star was a better story with some of the same ideas, but All-Star is generally better than pretty much any other superhero comic you can bring up.

And why? Because he's not hopeful enough? He can't give the DCU the same hope and optimism that they're looking for? Why? It's not like he's Batman or the Outlaws. New 52 Superman embodied the same hope and idealism that Superdad did before the New 52. I honestly can't see how this does anything other than to backtrack on some of the decisions they made prior to the reboot.

That's exactly the point, because they realize what a mess the world around him became. His relationship with his supporting cast was very poor.

It feels like a regression, an attempt to have their cake and eat it too. Marvel tried this with Spider-Man when they did the original Clone Saga. It did not work out well in the long run.

It didn't work out well because Marvel didn't follow through. They caved to demand and that resulted in an even worse batch of stories than they were putting out in the first place.

DC is doing New 52 Superman quick and dirty. I don't think that's fair to his fans, but I don't think it's fair to anyone to drag things out.

[A Guy's Name]

Doomsday's whole theme was, literally, random and callous. The story was built on cut away shots of a rock monster punching random things it came across and then it turned out that Superman was merely the ultimate random thing to punch. Of course All-Star was a better story with some of the same ideas, but All-Star is generally better than pretty much any other superhero comic you can bring up.


That's exactly the point, because they realize what a mess the world around him became. His relationships with his supporting cast was pretty poor.


It didn't work out well because Marvel didn't follow through. They caved to demand and that resulted in an even worse batch of stories than they were putting out in the first place.

DC is doing New 52 Superman quick and dirty. I don't think that's fair to his fans, but I don't think it's fair to anyone to drag things out.

That's more on them, the editors and writers than it is on N52 Superman. But what am I thinking, obviously they're never gonna take the fault, never gonna stop the crossovers, never gonna really try to have the patience to develop SM, never gonna mishandle SM from the editorial standpoint, never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down, never gonna run around and desert you. lol.
I don't see a way out except by a total and complete reboot. And a nuke to the DC power structure, mayhaps also of WB. Perhaps do some of what Jim Shooter recommended, Read his post on his website, btw. Kinda fascinating.

[Kuwagaton]

Jim Shooter has comments on Superman?

And it's not about the blame game. Obviously they couldn't blame fans for bad storytelling if they even wanted, but the Superman books are a mess and it came to the point to do something big about it. So they are. Really, this is as much of a reboot as can be mustered, when you consider that there is absolutely no way to reboot so many other properties just to fix Superman's world. Shiv New Clark in the yard and keep it moving, apparently.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

The thing is, before new52 the Superman books were also a mess. The whole point for n52 was to have a clean slate. And after they did all that they come up with this convoluted (i.e. messy) story in Rebirth, backtracking on previous decisions they themselves made simply because they didn't have the guts to stand their ground and try to fix things with what they already had. New52 caved in because of that and because they didn't want to fix it with decent writing (which means less crossovers and more charactrer development, less editorial meddling). And also, anti-n52 fans.

So what do we get? A Superman that was erased from existence because, well, he was a mess (not the character's fault, of course).

EDIT: in the case of n52 Superman, I think he had some flaws from the beginning (remember George Pérez leaving the book?) and in the end they didn't even care anymore (Truth). But the whole initial premise was great.

[A Guy's Name]

Jim Shooter has comments on Superman?

And it's not about the blame game. Obviously they couldn't blame fans for bad storytelling if they even wanted, but the Superman books are a mess and it came to the point to do something big about it. So they are. Really, this is as much of a reboot as can be mustered, when you consider that there is absolutely no way to reboot so many other properties just to fix Superman's world. Shiv New Clark in the yard and keep it moving, apparently.

But it is in my opinion, their decisions, "plans" and incompetence that led to this. It hurt Pre-FP Supes, now it hurts N52 Supes. Berganza wasn't sacked, neither did any of the people involved. Nothing really changed. Also, IMO, there should be a complete reboot every 25, 30, 40 years. Make them redevelop the characters, make things fresh every time. A whole lotta new stuff, with core characters. Perhaps, though, that's too much.

Jim Shooter has blog posts on a lot of topics, really interesting. Even about some about vague organized crime ties (Mafia) with Marvel and stuff, way back in his day. Fascinating stuff with the whole newsstand distribution thing and getting a larger net for attracting new readers. One about creators' common complaint about their comics not selling because it's not getting out there. The rise of the direct market. Google him.

[Kuwagaton]

I've seen his blog, thought you brought it up because there was some particular post that tied into this.

As for who should be fired or held accountable, it apparently takes more than bad sales and criticism to get a change of the editorial guard. Seeing as how it's not happening, it's kind of a waste of time to go on about who should get fired. Either they come up with some good comics now, after all this time, or they don't. If they don't then just bail on them.

[Tayswift]

Jim Shooter has comments on Superman?

And it's not about the blame game. Obviously they couldn't blame fans for bad storytelling if they even wanted, but the Superman books are a mess and it came to the point to do something big about it. So they are. Really, this is as much of a reboot as can be mustered, when you consider that there is absolutely no way to reboot so many other properties just to fix Superman's world. Shiv New Clark in the yard and keep it moving, apparently.

that is the easy way and don't call the blame on them. it's always the character, never the editors and writers. just some replay of 2011

[stephens2177]

As superman becomes more powerful he needs more things to lose that he cant protect,thats where they started to mess up nuperman,he was getting more and more powerful,so theyade him impossible to hurt (for the most part),but they didnt give him things to make him more vulnerable as he was getting more powerful.at that point they should have had clark start dating lois imo.

[Francisco]

As superman becomes more powerful he needs more things to lose that he cant protect,thats where they started to mess up nuperman,he was getting more and more powerful,so theyade him impossible to hurt (for the most part),but they didnt give him things to make him more vulnerable as he was getting more powerful.at that point they should have had clark start dating lois imo.

I don't get it? He can't protect Lois if he is dating her? What about simply Superman interacting more with his cast and just having great adventures in which he is the star? Superman isn't about fear of losing things or people. He is about helping those in need and protecting those who can't protect themselves just because he can. His stories aren't about how much he loves Lois Lane or Wonder Woman or any other female. He isn't some romantic lead in a cheap soap opera. Neither is he the star of some cheesy 80's sitcom ala full house or the Cosby Show. I want a youthful Superman. Who isn't (seriously) romantically tied to anyone because he is too busy having great adventures, saving the universe while been pursued by half the female (and some guys too) population of the galaxy.

[misslane]

Who isn't (seriously) romantically tied to anyone because he is too busy having great adventures, saving the universe while been pursued by half the female (and some guys too) population of the galaxy.

A man can't be romantically tied to someone and still have great adventures? That seems remarkably regressive. All of Superman's love interests are bold and independent adventurers themselves who are fine with being a partner in saving the day or going their own way. It sounds like your ideal Superman is some cosmic superstud who doesn't believe in love or commitment. That guy doesn't seem like the kind of guy I would recognize as Superman.

[Francisco]

A man can't be romantically tied to someone and still have great adventures? That seems remarkably regressive. All of Superman's love interests are bold and independent adventurers themselves who are fine with being a partner in saving the day or going their own way. It sounds like your ideal Superman is some cosmic superstud who doesn't believe in love or commitment. That guy doesn't seem like the kind of guy I would recognize as Superman.

I said pursued... Not pursuing. He can't be romantically tied up because it will always get in the way of the stories. There will always be someone complaining about it. So he better not have anything serious with anyone. Single guy Supes works just fine.

[stephens2177]

I don't get it? He can't protect Lois if he is dating her? What about simply Superman interacting more with his cast and just having great adventures in which he is the star? Superman isn't about fear of losing things or people. He is about helping those in need and protecting those who can't protect themselves just because he can. His stories aren't about how much he loves Lois Lane or Wonder Woman or any other female. He isn't some romantic lead in a cheap soap opera. Neither is he the star of some cheesy 80's sitcom ala full house or the Cosby Show. I want a youthful Superman. Who isn't (seriously) romantically tied to anyone because he is too busy having great adventures, saving the universe while been pursued by half the female (and some guys too) population of the galaxy.

Lol,you just described superdad and how he is with his lois and jon.

[manofsteel1979]

I said pursued... Not pursuing. He can't be romantically tied up because it will always get in the way of the stories. There will always be someone complaining about it. So he better not have anything serious with anyone. Single guy Supes works just fine.

Which is the point I made here