Batman/Superman #21 discussion (SPOILERS)

[MeloDet]

I agree that it's intentionally muddled to create suspense and mystery, but I don't agree that it's most likely that Lois' initial apology was insincere and over the top. If you have to rely on "Lois was acting out of character" to explain her behavior, there's probably something amiss.

Fair enough. It could simply be that, as The World said, now that time has passed and emotions have had time to settle, she's realized that she doesn't regret her actions/knows she did what she had to? After all, we don't know how soon after the secret leak FCBD occurred, so it could be that this was the first time they'd met since it happened and if so I imagine Lois was in something of a hectic state of mind.

*Edit: Just a side thought, but I wonder when Clark finds out Lois' reason for exposing him? If he caught off guard and doesn't get an explanation until after he's developed an emotional response to the incident it could go a long way to explaining his inability to forgive her. He'd have to try to reconcile what he's felt for a while with what he's just learned.

[manofsteel1979]

From first read it sounds like Diana *may* have been involved somehow with Lois' decision to reveal the secret or at least takes her side in all of this. That may explain why he is upset with her in the sm/ww preview the other week. If so, that's a little twist I didnt expect.

Also, Luthor's reaction? Right out of The Byrne era. Some things never change.

[Auguste Dupin]

From first read it sounds like Diana *may* have been involved somehow with Lois' decision to reveal the secret or at least takes her side in all of this. That may explain why he is upset with her in the sm/ww preview the other week. If so, that's a little twist I didnt expect.

Also, Luthor's reaction? Right out of The Byrne era. Some things never change.

Thought the exact same thing. Good plain old denial.
As for Diana, I don't think she will be involved. Call it a hunch, but I doubt we'll see much of her outside of SM/WW, and I suspect the whole "don't love you anymore" thing was added to prevent Clark from having a superpowered girlfriend to act as a flying deus ex machina. Now, yes, the issue does imply that at the very least, she understands Lois' decision. Kinda remind me of the first arc of SM/WW, in which one of the conflicts between the two lovers was the fact she didn't get his need for a secret id, so maybe she wasn't that hard to convince.
Kinda don't see it being the reason Clark is trying to break up,though. No proofs, just don't see it. That being said, I'm not nearlyna confident in Tomasi's handle of Clark than in Pak's, so who knows.

[dumbduck]

Trying my best not to get spoiled. I'll just leave this here.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly when Batman became the patent holder of essentially every type of non-metahuman characteristic.

Welcome back, Sacred!

[Kandor Rising]

I agree that it's intentionally muddled to create suspense and mystery, but I don't agree that it's most likely that Lois' initial apology was insincere and over the top. If you have to rely on "Lois was acting out of character" to explain her behavior, there's probably something amiss.

Could Diana have used her Lasso to make Lois do this? Lois did say she was onboard with exposing the truth. If Superman is trying to make WW more accepting of humanity, then perhaps WW wants him to free himself of the supposed weakness of a secret identity?

[Auguste Dupin]

Could Diana have used her Lasso to make Lois do this? Lois did say she was onboard with exposing the truth. If Superman is trying to make WW more accepting of humanity, then perhaps WW wants him to free himself of the supposed weakness of a secret identity?

Pretty sure the Lasso hasn't been able to do that kind of stuff in some time now.

[Sacred Knight]

Character assassination to try and justify this misfire.

Congrats, DC now gets what they wanted. A de-powered Superman who acts just like Batman.

A Superman who plays with children in the street, and makes quotes about belonging in the sun as opposed to the shadows, is not like Batman.

And thank you dumbduck!

[Francisco]

Just read the issue... Man, I could get used to this Superman. Lex's arrogance does get in the way of his incredible mind lol

[Last Son of Krypton]

Thought the exact same thing. Good plain old denial.
As for Diana, I don't think she will be involved. Call it a hunch, but I doubt we'll see much of her outside of SM/WW, and I suspect the whole "don't love you anymore" thing was added to prevent Clark from having a superpowered girlfriend to act as a flying deus ex machina. Now, yes, the issue does imply that at the very least, she understands Lois' decision. Kinda remind me of the first arc of SM/WW, in which one of the conflicts between the two lovers was the fact she didn't get his need for a secret id, so maybe she wasn't that hard to convince.
Kinda don't see it being the reason Clark is trying to break up,though. No proofs, just don't see it. That being said, I'm not nearlyna confident in Tomasi's handle of Clark than in Pak's, so who knows.

In the first arc there was also Cat's subplot about outing Sm/WW relationship. If Tomasi is "smart" can use it as a kind of parallel to what's happening in "Truth".

[Kandor Rising]

A Superman who plays with children in the street, and makes quotes about belonging in the sun as opposed to the shadows, is not like Batman.

They depowered Superman to the point where a mook can stab him. Then they point out how fun it is to beat up random guys, just like Batman. They even give him a freaking motorcycle from Batman. Its obvious that DC wants him to be as much like Batman as possible, because they are too creatively bankrupt to write good stories about a real Superman.

[Sacred Knight]

Why is any of that indicative of Batman, though? Batman doesn't own those character traits. Superman was beating up criminals (and yes, enjoying it) before Batman even existed. If this isn't a real Superman to you, then apparently even Siegel and Shuster didn't write a real Superman. Looking at it through that lens you can see how silly the stance is. If one is knowledgeable about Superman lore, it becomes evident that this direction is taking from one thing: the earliest Superman stories. Not Batman.

The motorcycle is the only thing tangibly related to Batman about this status quo.

[Auguste Dupin]

In the first arc there was also Cat's subplot about outing Sm/WW relationship. If Tomasi is "smart" can use it as a kind of parallel to what is happening in "Truth".

That's a possible analogy, yes.
Wonder where is Cat Grant in all this. I mean, her reaction should be worth it if only for the moment where she realized she totally outed her co worker's secret romance. Awkwaaaard.

[Francisco]

Why is any of that indicative of Batman, though? Batman doesn't own those character traits. Superman was beating up criminals (and yes, enjoying it) before Batman even existed. If this isn't a real Superman to you, then apparently even Siegel and Shuster didn't write a real Superman. Looking at it through that lens you can see how silly the stance is.

The motorcycle is the only thing tangibly related to Batman about this status quo.

And he painted it red and blue lol


PS: Welcome back, bro

[Last Son of Krypton]

That's a possible analogy, yes.
Wonder where is Cat Grant in all this. I mean, her reaction should be worth it if only for the moment where she realized she totally outed her co worker's secret romance. Awkwaaaard.

Lol, awkward.

I suspect that has happened to Cat what happened to all that Lobdell wrote: forgotten or retconned.

[Auguste Dupin]

Lol, awkward.

I suspect that has happened to Cat what happened to all that Lobdell wrote: forgotten or retconned.

Awww. I kinda liked her.