Black Panther Appreciation: Wakanda Forever!

[XPac]

They have a lot of similarities but there are clear differences. T'Chaka created the Hatute Zeraze and sanctioned their behavior, while T'Challa exiled them for it. I also doubt that T'Chaka would've been that proactive about the girl sponsored by the Tomorrow fund or that open to the refugees of the Priest run.

Also, in every BP run, it is T'Challa that moves Wakanda away from isolationism, not T'Chaka. T'Chaka in some iterations may conclude that change may be in the horizon, but he doesn't pull the trigger in making that shift. Even in Rise of the BP, it took N'Yami facing death for T'Chaka to decide to contact Howard Stark.



For one, 4sake has a good point below:



Secondly, Ramonda is quite intergrated into Wakandan society at this point. She may be foreign-born, but she is treated as one and her interest are all about Wakanda as well. Ramonda and Shuri's views don't deviate too much.

Third, every single notable attack on Wakandan soil during Shuri's reign has been due to outsiders: Morlun, Doom and the Desturi, Kingpin and the Hand, Namor and Atlantian troops, Thanos and the Black Order. So it's not surprising that by the time Daredevil infiltrates Wakanda in the Waid run of DD, Shuri isn't much of a fan of the outside world at that point.

Fourth, Shuri--as far as I know-- didn't have a lengthy journey outside of Wakanda like T'Challa did. In addition, any non-Wakandan connection Shuri has is through T'Challa. She never actively sought for friends / alliances from the outside world.

Lastly, Shuri is not an isolationist, as she kept lines of communication with the outside world open. She even talks down on xenophobia during the Mayberry run. That said, she has an overall arms-length relationship with non-Wakandans, exceptions aside.

Shuri and T'Chaka can probably only be seen as isolationist if compared to T'Challa. We saw Shuri visiting Obama for example when she became ruler. I don't think she (or T'Chaka) necessarily have any overly negative views about the outside world. They just don't embrace it to the same degree that T'Challa does.

And I wonder if that in part isn't due to T'Challa being a scientist in addition to a king. He's probably more curious about the outside world, and more eager to learn from it.

[XPac]

Was there something wrong with that trade?

T'Challa banging a 12 year old didn't do me any favors. Maybe social norms are different in Africa, but I still didn't think it was necessary to retcon Claremonts story to make her that young.

Even if this sort of thing is more acceptable in Africa (and I don't know for a fact that it is or it isn't), I think marvel still needs to consider that it does have an American audience that might not care to see 12 year old girls hooking up. At least they could have bumped her up to 16 or so... teenage sex isn't quite as weird.

[Cville]

T'Challa banging a 12 year old didn't do me any favors. Maybe social norms are different in Africa, but I still didn't think it was necessary to retcon Claremonts story to make her that young.

Even if this sort of thing is more acceptable in Africa (and I don't know for a fact that it is or it isn't), I think marvel still needs to consider that it does have an American audience that might not care to see 12 year old girls hooking up. At least they could have bumped her up to 16 or so... teenage sex isn't quite as weird.

Does it say 12. Based on how she is drawn and she is having periods, I would say 16/17 based on how tall they draw her.

[Ezyo1000]

Shuri and T'Chaka can probably only be seen as isolationist if compared to T'Challa. We saw Shuri visiting Obama for example when she became ruler. I don't think she (or T'Chaka) necessarily have any overly negative views about the outside world. They just don't embrace it to the same degree that T'Challa does.

And I wonder if that in part isn't due to T'Challa being a scientist in addition to a king. He's probably more curious about the outside world, and more eager to learn from it.

No, It has more to do with T'challa being sent to study abroad as well as his studies in Wakanda that make him different. Shuri stayed in Wakanda and T'Challa got more outside exposure as well as from within,. That is also why he is head and shoulders above everyone else in Wakanda. It ha nothing to do with scientist at heart stuff

[Mike_Murdock]

Secondly, Ramonda is quite intergrated into Wakandan society at this point. She may be foreign-born, but she is treated as one and her interest are all about Wakanda as well. Ramonda and Shuri's views don't deviate too much.

How well did Shuri know her mother growing up? Obviously, we have a character retconned much later, but her mother would have been kidnapped in South Africa for a significant chunk of her life, it would seem.

[Ezyo1000]

Does it say 12. Based on how she is drawn and she is having periods, I would say 16/17 based on how tall they draw her.

I too, was also under the assumption they were both about 16 at the time, if she was twelve then T'Challa was likely the same age, and really thats on the artist for drawing a preteen to look like a teenager who even then is on the more developed side of things

[Cville]

McGrogor is the only one who still holds on to that story. lol

Its like the clone saga, you kinda sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen. lol

[butterflykyss]

T'Challa banging a 12 year old school didn't do me any favors. Maybe social norms are different in Africa, but I still didn't think it was necessary to retcon Claremonts story to make her that young.

Even if this sort of thing is more acceptable in Africa (and I don't know for a fact that it is or it isn't), I think marvel still needs to consider that it does have an American audience that might not care to see 12 year old girls hooking up. At least they could have bumped her up to 16 or so... teenage sex isn't quite as weird.

agreed but it was bad aside from this because it completely rewrote established canon and had tchalla save her. dickey made ororo how many believe Coates has made tchalla.

He's dead. That is how how he dies.

dang. that sucks thnks.

There are some differences from the previous canon. This retconned a few previous retconns, and did some entirely new stuff. But overall I agree it was well written.

And T'Chaka's historically was killed by Klaw in this attack, so unless this book is massively retconning that he's dead.

It'll be interesting to see if they include the stuff with Storm, and if so which version of their meeting they use (hopefully it's the Claremont version).

what differences between established canon are there other than shuri?


it better be Claremont version. if Coates is overseeing this I'm pretty sure it will be Claremont's version. he seems to be well versed in the xlore.

[butterflykyss]

I too, was also under the assumption they were both about 16 at the time, if she was twelve then T'Challa was likely the same age, and really thats on the artist for drawing a preteen to look like a teenager who even then is on the more developed side of things

no ororo was 12 in dickeys book.

[XPac]

I too, was also under the assumption they were both about 16 at the time, if she was twelve then T'Challa was likely the same age, and really thats on the artist for drawing a preteen to look like a teenager who even then is on the more developed side of things

I believe T'Challa was like 16 and she was 12.

But yeah... at least the artist drew both of them like older teenagers. That's something I guess.

[XPac]

agreed but it was bad aside from this because it completely rewrote established canon and had tchalla save her. dickey made ororo how many believe Coates has made tchalla.



dang. that sucks thnks.



what differences between established canon are there other than shuri?


it better be Claremont version. if Coates is overseeing this I'm pretty sure it will be Claremont's version. he seems to be well versed in the xlore.

The differences are retcon some of the stuff Hudlin did. Nothing major. The version of Klaw assassinating T'CHaka was more in line with the original version than Hudlins. Which isnt' to say that Hudlins stuff got short changed as all the overall changes he made to Wakanda are still there. This was still Hudlins version of Wakanda.

Overall I think this book did a nice job of combaning stuff various writers threw out there and making it all gel together.

[butterflykyss]

I believe T'Challa was like 16 and she was 12.

But yeah... at least the artist drew both of them like older teenagers. That's something I guess.

I couldn't find scan for tchalla her but I'm pretty sure he was 16 I remember people being upset about that when the book was released. ororo was definitely 12:

[Ezyo1000]

agreed but it was bad aside from this because it completely rewrote established canon and had tchalla save her. dickey made ororo how many believe Coates has made tchalla.



dang. that sucks thnks.



what differences between established canon are there other than shuri?


it better be Claremont version. if Coates is overseeing this I'm pretty sure it will be Claremont's version. he seems to be well versed in the xlore.

Yes and not very versed in BP lore which is what he was commissioned to write. Atleast Evans did his homework/ is a BP nerd and hit a ton of BP points that others haven't done to nearly the same extent so that is a plus, and he hasn't emasculated men to prop up the women in the mythos which is something Coates utterly failed at too. there is hope for Evans

[ChildOfTheAtom]

How y'all feel about Kendrick making the black panther soundtrack?

[butterflykyss]

The differences are retcon some of the stuff Hudlin did. Nothing major. The version of Klaw assassinating T'CHaka was more in line with the original version than Hudlins. Which isnt' to say that Hudlins stuff got short changed as all the overall changes he made to Wakanda are still there. This was still Hudlins version of Wakanda.

Overall I think this book did a nice job of combaning stuff various writers threw out there and making it all gel together.

yes I'm not familiar with the original story prior to hudlin but I was very impressed with the writing and how well paced the book.was.