Downtown Khazan: Ice Cold Utopia

[Nik Hasta]

Red Storm updated.

I love Thrint being a cool uncle.

Yulian continues to be baffled by the prospect of world ending events and secret societies etc.

[Lord Falcon]

Because 'long'swords are also too short. Anything short of a two-handed sword is at a serious disadvantage in terms of fighting against the much more easily made weapon known as "a sharpened stick", which is why the usual equipment for most of history was a polearm and then a shorter blade for backup.

More on the point, "katana" explicitly refers to the shorter variant of Japanese swords; they were invented after the longer ones (in order to be able to be used inside buildings, I've heard), they just have a lot more notoriety in the modern day.

The fact that the longer variant lacked a standardized length doesn't make it any easier to discuss them in general terms.

So, the katana is considered too short as a main weapon because it is too short. The same is true of the traditional longsword most people imagine knights wielding. It's just that those two models captured the imagination for whatever reason and have become what people think of when they picture swords.

If you want to know if a weapon is of appropriate length, consider how many steps you would have to take inside of the range of a guy with a polearm before you could strike him. If the answer is more than one, it's too short. If the answer is exactly one, it depends. If the answer is zero, it's the right length.

Siriel, I have been a fan of spears since before I created Avelyn in your game. There is no merit in trying to give me a lecture about the merits of them on the battlefield.

Let me be clearer: When comparing the advantages of various swords, I don't think the common man really thinks about the length of the katana compared to the length of the average, say, longsword. They're mainly looking (and I might be wrong!) for the merits of the shape of the blade, guard and design of the hilt. There are other reasons to choose the longsword, such as the existence of an actual hand guard compared to that piece of almost-nothing the katana uses. But I usually see length cited as the deciding factor when identically shaped swords of greater length existed and people would assume you'd use a sword length appropriate for your physical stature in a perfect world.

[Beadle]

Beadle, question:

spoilers:

How was Black Manta anything like Killmonger? If anything Orm was much more Killmonger-esq. Orm was related to the royal bloodline and the main character, actually had something resembling a good point to justify his global war effort (environmentalism vs racial discrimination and reparations) and had multiple one-to-one duels with the protagonist using thematically symmetrical weaponry and skillsets for the fate of their kingdom. Manta was just a dude who was there who Aquaman mostly ran through with no issue on the two occasions they fought. He really could have been dropped from the film with no issue.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I agree they could have dropped him from the movie without too much hassle. I dunno. Maybe it was just a vibe I picked up at the time and there wasn’t actually much to it. Maybe it was just the whole thing of his father being killed at the start of the film and taking revenge for that (muddied by the target of his enmity also being the rightful king of a secretive kingdom), or maybe it was that, from where I was sitting, they tried really hard to make him somewhat sympathetic after the opening scene; not being interested in money, the scenes when he was trying to build the suit, etc.; though if you’re going to try that, it’s a serious misstep to start him off as a murder-hungry pirate, rather than someone totally wronged. Like I say though, it may just be a vibe I picked up apropos of nothing in particular.

end of spoilers

[FistofIron]

I’m very glad that Kengan is getting a second series next year. It’s gonna be a while but I’m excited. I know the writer and artist didn’t get to do a lot things because of time constraints and story reasons. I’d imagine a lot of characters are going to return and that flashback arc with Metsudo and Erioh happens.

[Nik Hasta]

Siriel, I have been a fan of spears since before I created Avelyn in your game. There is no merit in trying to give me a lecture about the merits of them on the battlefield.

This seems a bit needlessly snippy. You asked a question and Siriel gave a good answer.

Let me be clearer: When comparing the advantages of various swords, I don't think the common man really thinks about the length of the katana compared to the length of the average, say, longsword. They're mainly looking (and I might be wrong!) for the merits of the shape of the blade, guard and design of the hilt. There are other reasons to choose the longsword, such as the existence of an actual hand guard compared to that piece of almost-nothing the katana uses. But I usually see length cited as the deciding factor when identically shaped swords of greater length existed and people would assume you'd use a sword length appropriate for your physical stature in a perfect world.

Have you ever swordfought?

My housemate does long swordfighting and we've messed around with his training blades and a bokken we have around the house.

The length of a European long sword is hard to get around for a smaller blade. As Siriel notes, a long sword has to move much less to be a threat and the katana wielder has to move more to become a threat at all.

More length is more range and range is a hard thing get by in a duel.

[Lord Falcon]

This seems a bit needlessly snippy. You asked a question and Siriel gave a good answer.



Have you ever swordfought?

My housemate does long swordfighting and we've messed around with his training blades and a bokken we have around the house.

The length of a European long sword is hard to get around for a smaller blade. As Siriel notes, a long sword has to move much less to be a threat and the katana wielder has to move more to become a threat at all.

More length is more range and range is a hard thing get by in a duel.

If it came across as snippy, I apologize for the lack of clarity. I was simply trying to get across that my question has nothing to do with spears or their merits on the battlefield. I realized that my question left open the possibility of comparing katanas to non-sword weapons, so I gave further context to what I'm asking.

It seems to be that the point still hasn't gotten across though because I'm not referring to the disadvantage of having a shorter sword. I totally agree that a longer sword has the edge (hah!) in the open.

Let me try to get my perspective across a third time. Perhaps that'll be the charm: An odachi is just a longer katana by a different name (at least when not referring to anti-cavalry swords). I would wager that most people don't even know that katanas were generally limited to a certain length, and their curiosity as to the merits of its design have absolutely nothing to do with its length. And for the purposes of comparing sword design, there is no need to limit ourselves to a certain length of blade for the katana since odachi were just katana by a different name. Or you might just have a longer sword built for a bigger man that he calls a katana but is essentially identical to an odachi.

I guess I'd be a lot happier if sword experts who compared longswords to katanas would then go "but then what about the odachi, which is exactly the same shape as a katana but where we can assume at least equal blade length? Well in that case I would prefer/still prefer X in Y situation because Z..."



As for actual experience swordfighting, sadly no! I grew up with eczema and a blood condition, so I've always sucked at prolonged strenuous activity that requires me to burn lots of oxygen.

[Nik Hasta]

I'm not wholly sure I'm following you. Let me try and run through this:

Katana, generally, are quite short blades. Swordsmen prefer long swords because, as cited, they are longer.

Your issue/query is that there are variants from the katana family that are of similar dimensions to a European long sword but those don't get a look in.

I would imagine because Japanese blades are comparatively quite brittle when compared to a heavier European blade? Yes, you have range but the sword is not as sturdy and a longer blade would only exacerbate the problem.

[Lord Falcon]

I'm not wholly sure I'm following you. Let me try and run through this:

Katana, generally, are quite short blades. Swordsmen prefer long swords because, as cited, they are longer.

Your issue/query is that there are variants from the katana family that are of similar dimensions to a European long sword but those don't get a look in.

I would imagine because Japanese blades are comparatively quite brittle when compared to a heavier European blade? Yes, you have range but the sword is not as sturdy and a longer blade would only exacerbate the problem.

Yup! Pretty much. A traditional medieval longsword and a claymore have very different designs even if you set aside the length. But an odachi is exactly what a katana is, just longer.

And yeah, a favorite hema guy of mine on Youtube talked about how katanas (if forged the traditional way) chipped easily, and that chipping would reduce the cutting power of a katana, making the biggest strength of a katana very fragile.

[SpiderClops]

[The Dog]

[Noldere]

Not even Cthulhu himself could bring about this madness...

This must be the work of an enemy stand.

[KingofPie]

I honestly thought it was a joke at first...

[Nik Hasta]

Oh man, I've not watched their content for a good... four years but it's still a weird feeling to see the channel officially stop.

Mid twenties Nick really appreciated the work of the Zaibatsu and I wish them well.

[Gryphon]

You guys are all awesome and I wanted to give you all something this year


so I made a charitable donation here in in the name of everyone here

http://waynefdn.org/

[TheLastDalek]

Oh man, I've not watched their content for a good... four years but it's still a weird feeling to see the channel officially stop.

Mid twenties Nick really appreciated the work of the Zaibatsu and I wish them well.

I still enjoyed a lot of their work so it's sad to see it end. It's also kind of a shame that they didn't go out with a bang since the last video is midway through the worst world of KH1.