Amazing Spider-Man #50 (SPOILERS)

[PCN24454]

I'm sure we'll get some more in-depth explanations about Kindred's nature once Doctor Strange gets more involved with the whole ordeal.

Or not, so we can keep him mysterious.

After all, Spencer already revealed one of the most important parts of Kindred already. The second is what happened to him.

[Lukmendes]

It’s the old school comic fan in my that’s bugged by it. At this point, I do realize that consistent power levels aren’t a high priority anymore with comic stories. Still annoys me at times.

Old comics had Spidey defeating Firelord of all people, so even those would have goofs, less bad than nowadays though.

Here is my question why have a meal with George? I can understand haunting him with Gwen, but why not Uncle Ben? That haunts Peter more then anything ( which is why he goes to a Met game every year on the anniversary of his death)? Uncle Ben’ddeath is also more of a Peter SIN then George. There has to be a reason why he chose George and Gwen? If it actually is them ( and not some Ghost Of Christmas Past that haunted Scrooge in A Christmas Carol), then indeed Kindred has the power to take people from Heaven

Harry seems to be foccusing around people fropm Peter's life around college, people who Harry himself was somewhat familiar with, and when he around when they died, so Uncle Ben wouldn't work for that.

Kindred has displayed the following:
-Ressurection
-Induce illusions
-Empowering servants with demonic power
-Conjure lightning strikes
-Conjure pestilence of centipedes/rats/maggots from self and others
-Centipede appendages on back that can rip off steel doors/rip apart robots/dig/crush heads with ease
-tap into dreams
-tap into the web of life
-teleportation, possibly through any mirror/reflection


So its safe to say his power moveset is pretty high. Maybe comparable to someone like Blackheart? But I wouldn't put him as high as Hell Lords like Mephisto or Satannish, at least what we've seen of him so far, but he seems pretty autonomous in his own right and usually the only demons in hell who do this are ones that get to the level Hell Lords are, unless Mephisto is just letting Kindred play pretend like he has with Blackheart and is really overseeing everything.

I'm not exactly sure if he can tap into the web of life, it looks like he just used his power to create illusions to torment Peter and the other Spider-People, but it seems he just used his power to create illusions for that, and specifically a version which he can use to invade the web of life.

And while this one isn't shown, he did mention in ASM#30 "I could rip this door off its hingers and let these monsters inside me devour you.", so yeah, there are monster inside of him he can control, although maybe he's talking about the centipedes, wonder if the stolen villain powers he's using have something to do with those monsters too.

It's also worth keeping in mind he gave Sin Eater the power to steal someone else's power with that "cleansing", it's very possible that Kindred himself can do it, 'cause it'd be weird for him to give a power he can't do.

He also somehow managed to summon multiple Tri-Sentinels in ASM#4, no idea where he got all of them from, but yeah, he can do that...

I don't remember the lightning strike one though, when did that happen?

I'm sure we'll get some more in-depth explanations about Kindred's nature once Doctor Strange gets more involved with the whole ordeal.

Wonder how much Strange will say though, maybe make a few guesses but not know the extent of Kindred's power because he doesn't know what kind of demon he is.

Although honestly, in power set alone, he's easily one of the most dangerous Spidey villains, question is how good he's at fighting, y'know, how many punches he can take, wonder it'd be okay for him to be a magician type, y'know, lots of powerful spells, but as soon as he gets punched in the face, he's screwed...

[Kingkalamari]

He's used lightning twice, once when resurrecting Sin-Eater, and once when breaking open Stacy's coffin.

Also forgot about the brain worm he put in Osborn, I assume that's another thing he can do, and generally seems to have omnipotent observational power from his glass portrait room.

Also yeah the Tri-Sentinel stuff... I assumed that was more of a power move, as he can seemingly gather limitless resources, probably through exploitation of people's desires like he did with Kingpin, and Mysterio and the movie script and setup.

[PCN24454]

Old comics had Spidey defeating Firelord of all people, so even those would have goofs, less bad than nowadays though.

And the problem with that is? /s

Real talk, not only am I used to these sorts of things, I'm actually glad that they happened. (Tokusatsu and manga have gotten me used to stuff like this.)

[JTHM]

Old comics had Spidey defeating Firelord of all people, so even those would have goofs, less bad than nowadays though.

Really? I would say nowadays is way better than before. Since in old comics you had stuff like Spidey punching out an entire X-Men or Avengers line-up. Which, honestly, wouldn't fly today without some massive uproar against the writer lol.

Then again, you have Sin-Eater absorbing Juggernaut's powers and not flicking both Norman and Peter with one hit. So I dunno.

[Lukmendes]

He's used lightning twice, once when resurrecting Sin-Eater, and once when breaking open Stacy's coffin.

Ah yeah, those, I'm not sure if the lightning is something he can use aggressively though, sounds more like it's the effect of how he resurrects people.

Also forgot about the brain worm he put in Osborn, I assume that's another thing he can do, and generally seems to have omnipotent observational power from his glass portrait room.

Wonder if that bootleg Carnage could even remove the worm if it noticed it was there, pretty big deal if it couldn't...

Also yeah the Tri-Sentinel stuff... I assumed that was more of a power move, as he can seemingly gather limitless resources, probably through exploitation of people's desires like he did with Kingpin, and Mysterio and the movie script and setup.

If he somehow gathered Tri-Sentinels only to give them all to Mendel, then it'd be better, because having an unlimited robot army at the tip of his fingers is too much lol.

And the problem with that is? /s

Well, "As strong as he needs to be" is a super lazy trope on the level of Informed Attributes, making a character just win any fight just because he's that determined is lazy, and the Firelord battle is peak laziness, since all Spidey did to win once he actually decided to fight was punch him, a lot, and he won rather easily, blergh, Venom looked way more dangerous than Firelord.

Real talk, not only am I used to these sorts of things, I'm actually glad that they happened. (Tokusatsu and manga have gotten me used to stuff like this.)

I don't see why other writers being lazy that it should be okay for Marvel to be lazy, if they're incompetent about this, then it's their problem.

Worth pointing out that I don't think that characters should have this limit which they can never surpass, otherwise it'd be too boring, but something like Spidey beating Firelord is really pushing it, what's the point of making a cosmic being when a nobody like Spidey can beat him up if he's really determined?

Really? I would say nowadays is way better than before. Since in old comics you had stuff like Spidey punching out an entire X-Men or Avengers line-up. Which, honestly, wouldn't fly today without some massive uproar against the writer lol.

Hey, I said it's better, not that goofs didn't happen.

We have Spidey maneuvering around the X-Men in Secret Wars, and when Wolverine tries to attack, Spidey just slaps him away like he's not any threat, then a few years later we have Spider-Man vs Wolverine, where Wolverine looked way tougher and Spidey thought about killing him being the only way to stop him... So there was inconsistency there too lol.

Worth pointing out that the battle in Secret Wars, he dealt with them for a while and then ran away, so in a battle of attrition, he'd be likely to lose, specially once the X-Men could organize themselves since he did a surprise attack, but the way Wolverine looks so much less threatening is still noticeable.

Then again, you have Sin-Eater absorbing Juggernaut's powers and not flicking both Norman and Peter with one hit. So I dunno.

We also had Taskmaster easily soloing Spidey and Miles in Spider-Men II, hell, I can evens say Bendis in general (Thanos being one punched by Carol, hah), any time Slott made Spidey look like a complete wimp in fights Spidey could normally deal with alone (Like how he couldn't do much against Felicia and Electro, and then Cindy saves the day!), Spider-Otto somehow taking control of the symbiote... There's probably way more, but I don't check a lot of comics, but the inconsistent power levels are around, and they're noticeable if you know how strong the characters are supposed to be.

[PCN24454]

It’s mostly a difference in tastes. I love the idea of wuxia and super martial arts. It’s why I love Dragon Ball over Dragon Ball Z. Later series portray it as ridiculous that a human could ever be strong.

Another reason why I prefer it is because the power levels are less static. The universe feels less set in stone than the incredibly rigid world of comic books where nothing matters.

“Oh Spider-Man learned martial arts? Too bad that’s never going impact any of his fights!”

[Lukmendes]

It’s mostly a difference in tastes. I love the idea of wuxia and super martial arts. It’s why I love Dragon Ball over Dragon Ball Z. Later series portray it as ridiculous that a human could ever be strong.

To be fair, even DB was rather strict with power levels, gimmick characters had could mostly be beaten with brute force, something Goku did often, since he won a lot of his battle by just being that strong.

DBZ did arbitrarily make humans have a hard cap though, yeah, looks even sillier when characters had no trouble to kinda catch up with Goku, most of 'em trained for 6 months with Kami and they all surpassed Raditz, Goku trained for 3 years with Kami and only became a bit stronger than 23rd tournament Piccolo? Yeah...

Speaking of Piccolo, he's the silliest of all, just arbitrarily reached his limit once he fused with Kami, but he thereotically should have an even bigger potential lol.

Another reason why I prefer it is because the power levels are less static. The universe feels less set in stone than the incredibly rigid world of comic books where nothing matters.

“Oh Spider-Man learned martial arts? Too bad that’s never going impact any of his fights!”

Well, big difference is that in comic books characters don't become increasingly stronger to deal with bigger enemies, characters are going to deal with enemies around their weight level, so Spidey is not going to go around dealing with the likes of Abomination, Firelord and whatnot that often.

So yeah, Spidey learning martial arts can make a difference in making him a better fighter (Spider-Fu specifically did 2 out 3 times it was used, even if Spidey had to look way weaker before getting it to make it look more effective), he's just not going to become magically strong enough to punch out the Hulk by learning 'em, and I think that's okay, characters becoming infinitely stronger can be really boring, and it'd be super boring with the amount of characters Marvel has, so I would rather Spidey didn't become strong enough to lift continents.

[PCN24454]

The problem I have with characters that use clever methods is that it always seems to come down to “Kryptonite” anyways. There’s always some Golden Snitch that’s capable of turning the entire fight around to make anything prior pointless. In that sense, they might as well have brute forced it.

[Lukmendes]

The problem I have with characters that use clever methods is that it always seems to come down to “Kryptonite” anyways. There’s always some Golden Snitch that’s capable of turning the entire fight around to make anything prior pointless. In that sense, they might as well have brute forced it.

And where's the fun in that? The level of creativity between "Spidey investigated and found this weakness his opponent has and used to beat him" and "Spidey punched Firelord really hard multiple times and won" is pretty different, and it's not hard to see which one puts more effort, creatively speaking.

Specially with someone as flexible as Spidey, some fights he can win by finding a "kryptonite", others by normal fighting, and since he's not that strong, he can always be hurt if he's not careful.

[PCN24454]

And where's the fun in that? The level of creativity between "Spidey investigated and found this weakness his opponent has and used to beat him" and "Spidey punched Firelord really hard multiple times and won" is pretty different, and it's not hard to see which one puts more effort, creatively speaking.

Specially with someone as flexible as Spidey, some fights he can win by finding a "kryptonite", others by normal fighting, and since he's not that strong, he can always be hurt if he's not careful.

Yeah, basically Spider-Man was losing the fight so the writers needed a Deus ex Machina to have him win.

[Lukmendes]

Yeah, basically Spider-Man was losing the fight so the writers needed a Deus ex Machina to have him win.

Oh yeah, it's a Deus Ex Machina to use established rules of the universe to find a weak point, sure.

If it's not obvious enough, that was sarcasm.

[TheCape]

Ah yeah, those, I'm not sure if the lightning is something he can use aggressively though, sounds more like it's the effect of how he resurrects people.



Wonder if that bootleg Carnage could even remove the worm if it noticed it was there, pretty big deal if it couldn't...



If he somehow gathered Tri-Sentinels only to give them all to Mendel, then it'd be better, because having an unlimited robot army at the tip of his fingers is too much lol.



Well, "As strong as he needs to be" is a super lazy trope on the level of Informed Attributes, making a character just win any fight just because he's that determined is lazy, and the Firelord battle is peak laziness, since all Spidey did to win once he actually decided to fight was punch him, a lot, and he won rather easily, blergh, Venom looked way more dangerous than Firelord.



I don't see why other writers being lazy that it should be okay for Marvel to be lazy, if they're incompetent about this, then it's their problem.

Worth pointing out that I don't think that characters should have this limit which they can never surpass, otherwise it'd be too boring, but something like Spidey beating Firelord is really pushing it, what's the point of making a cosmic being when a nobody like Spidey can beat him up if he's really determined?



Hey, I said it's better, not that goofs didn't happen.

We have Spidey maneuvering around the X-Men in Secret Wars, and when Wolverine tries to attack, Spidey just slaps him away like he's not any threat, then a few years later we have Spider-Man vs Wolverine, where Wolverine looked way tougher and Spidey thought about killing him being the only way to stop him... So there was inconsistency there too lol.

Worth pointing out that the battle in Secret Wars, he dealt with them for a while and then ran away, so in a battle of attrition, he'd be likely to lose, specially once the X-Men could organize themselves since he did a surprise attack, but the way Wolverine looks so much less threatening is still noticeable.



We also had Taskmaster easily soloing Spidey and Miles in Spider-Men II, hell, I can evens say Bendis in general (Thanos being one punched by Carol, hah), any time Slott made Spidey look like a complete wimp in fights Spidey could normally deal with alone (Like how he couldn't do much against Felicia and Electro, and then Cindy saves the day!), Spider-Otto somehow taking control of the symbiote... There's probably way more, but I don't check a lot of comics, but the inconsistent power levels are around, and they're noticeable if you know how strong the characters are supposed to be.

To be fair, as much as i like Logan, based on what i read of him, Peter one-shotting him shouldn't be that difficult. So technically that macth between Peter and Logan should have been more one sided, but it was a fun figth so i let it slide (i did the same with the Firelord one too), thougth it was weird how the issue implied that Peter can twist adamantium

[JTHM]

I mean, Peter's power level is all over the place usually. He is one of the most inconsistent characters in Marvel because sometimes you see the high tiers give him praise and being even able to trade blows with some of them. Like fighting Hulk, or Juggernaut, or surprising Thor with his strength. So it gives the impression of "damn. Maybe he really is a very strong person that holds back" but then you have scenes where he gets injured by random, small caliber guns or has problems lifting big vehicles. And like, its an inconsistency that sometimes really bothers me. I am not some super power level purists or anything like that, but I would like if they were a bit more consistent with it. Is Spider-Man secretly a high tier? That's ok, but then be consistent with that.

[Lukmendes]

To be fair, as much as i like Logan, based on what i read of him, Peter one-shotting him shouldn't be that difficult. So technically that macth between Peter and Logan should have been more one sided, but it was a fun figth so i let it slide (i did the same with the Firelord one too),

I mean, it's not even about whether or not Spidey can beat up Wolverine, I mentioned that because the difference between both is still huge, Secret Wars has him swatting Wolvering away like an insignificant fly, but Spider-Man vs Wolverine has Spidey struggling to fight, legit fearing for his life, and thinking killing him would be the only way to stop him from killing Charlemagne, those two are extreme differences, and I mentioned it to point out that yes, older comics could have innacurate and even contradictory battles.

As for the accuracy of the battle, while I think Spider-Man vs Wolverine is more accurate than what Secret Wars showed, because just swatting away Wolverine is in no way stopping him when he can tank punches from the Hulk well enough (And that's consistent enough, not something that showed up just once), Spider-Man vs Wolverine still tips the scales a bit too much in Wolverine's side, since Spidey was sounding like an amateur who never had to fight for his life (And the comic makes him sound like an amateur in other ways too), so it'd be a battle of attrition where Spidey would manage to hit Wolverine, a lot, question is if Spidey would manage to hit him enough to stop him, or if Wolverine would manage to cut him enough to fuck over Spidey, I'd say Spidey has a better chance.

Another thing worth considering are the webs, 'cause the webs can be pretty strong, and Spidey can tie him up in a way Wolverine can't just cut his way out, think Spidey even did that once.

So yeah, I don't think just swatting away Wolverine would work, he's tougher than that, Spidey is way faster and stronger, but Wolverine can tank a lot of hits, whoever wins (And again, I feel like Spidey would), it'd take forever.

thougth it was weird how the issue implied that Peter can twist adamantium

Yeah that was stupid, can't even say that it was Spidey desperately trying an option that wouldn't work, since Wolverine talks like it'd be possible if he really was trying to kill.

Plus, breaking necks isn't the only way, to kill someone (And it may not even be fatal), chocking is one way to do it, although it's not as immediate.

I mean, Peter's power level is all over the place usually. He is one of the most inconsistent characters in Marvel because sometimes you see the high tiers give him praise and being even able to trade blows with some of them. Like fighting Hulk, or Juggernaut, or surprising Thor with his strength. So it gives the impression of "damn. Maybe he really is a very strong person that holds back" but then you have scenes where he gets injured by random, small caliber guns or has problems lifting big vehicles. And like, its an inconsistency that sometimes really bothers me. I am not some super power level purists or anything like that, but I would like if they were a bit more consistent with it. Is Spider-Man secretly a high tier? That's ok, but then be consistent with that.

He lifted a building once in the 90's, so yeah, inconsistent lol.

It's honestly weird Marvel still tries to pretend he's in 10 tons category, he lifted vehicles that are significantly heavier than that in real life if you bother to make a research, even a tank once rather easily, tanks can weigh fucking 60 tons, meaning She-Hulk before she became dumb wouldn't manage to lift that, and it's ridiculous enough that Marvel tried to pretend She-Hulk's strength level was that low at any point when she never looked that weak.

If we're talking about consistency, his strength when he lifts stuff tends to be around 30~40 tons with the heavy shit he can lift, but he may look way stronger, or way weaker, so yeah, comic books.

Also, guns injuring him, I headcanon he's like Wonder Woman when it comes to this, meaning he can tank blunt force attacks well, but piercing can go through, kinda ridiculous, but hey, can explain how he can tank attacks from the likes of Venom or Rhino, be hurt, but survive, but normal guns can penetrate his skin.