Shang-Chi Appreciation 2021

[Tien Long]

I agree. Marvel has a few other Asian characters, like Jimmy Woo, who's already in the MCU, and Amadeus Cho and Silk, who don't follow the martial arts stereotype. Hopefully they'll join the MCU. Too bad for Hogun, though

Thanks for pointing that out. Amadeus Cho and Silk would be good additions to the MCU. Jimmy definitely has become a fan favorite in the last few months. The question what Jimmy are we going to continue to see. Jimmy in the comics is more of a leader than Jimmy in the MCU. I like the former, but the latter made an impression.

As for commentors in China talking about the film, I've been aware of these comments for a long time now. Simu is handsome enough, he's too manly, Marvel is being racist, heard it all. Ever since the trailer dropped there have been more comments. Here's an article from the SCMP https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/enter...-starring-simu:

In China, with some internet users voiced admiration for Liu and Leung, while others compared the film to 2020’s poorly received Mulan. One user on sports commentary and news platform Hupu said the Chinese elements portrayed using Western aesthetics are the same as those in that live-action Disney film. “It looks very jarring,” she said.

A user on Weibo, China’s Twitter-like microblogging platform, said he doubted the positive response to the trailer’s release is authentic and called the film a blend of 2015’s Southpaw (2015), House of Flying Daggers (2004), Mulan and 2014’s Kingsman: The Secret Service.
While some Chinese internet users praised details in the trailer, such as the inclusion of a Kung Fu Hustle poster in Shang-Chi’s bedroom, many attacked the apparently flagrant product placement by Chinese companies in the film.

People took particular objection to the name of e-commerce giant JD.com in Chinese writ large on the screen when Shang-Chi is fighting his enemy. One Weibo user wrote: “My anticipation of the film was dimmed by the presence of JD in the trailer.”

Styles are jarring? JD.com placement? Hmmm, the Chinese audience has to be considered in it's own way. I would like to know what the positive responses have been.

[CosmiComic]

Thanks for pointing that out. Amadeus Cho and Silk would be good additions to the MCU. Jimmy definitely has become a fan favorite in the last few months. The question what Jimmy are we going to continue to see. Jimmy in the comics is more of a leader than Jimmy in the MCU. I like the former, but the latter made an impression.

As for commentors in China talking about the film, I've been aware of these comments for a long time now. Simu is handsome enough, he's too manly, Marvel is being racist, heard it all. Ever since the trailer dropped there have been more comments. Here's an article from the SCMP https://www.scmp.com/lifestyle/enter...-starring-simu:



Styles are jarring? JD.com placement? Hmmm, the Chinese audience has to be considered in it's own way. I would like to know what the positive responses have been.

I think we could use a few more Spider characters in the MCU. But really, we could use more heroes of Asian descent. I'd like to keep Jimmy as he is except to become more of a leader type


As for the reaction to the casting, I have a mixed attitude. I think Hollwyood, and American culture in general, hasn't treated Asian men well at all, and the obsession with all leading men having to conform to square jawed beefcake is part of that. I can see why Chinese people would criticize that.

But how can anyone just say he or anyone else is ugly? It's extremely inappropriate. Plus Chinese culture also has colorist standards

[John Venus]

This trailer gave me mystical kung fu feel of an Iron Fist story rather than the more grounded traditional Shang Chi style of story. The trailer was visually cool but thought we would get a little bit more rugged style action. I am loving seeing the almost all Asian cast. The music and the editing gave the feel of the original Black Panther trailer.

I think part of the reason why they are doing Shang Chi (besides the fact that they've been rolling this idea around pre-phase 1) is because of the backlash they got for whitewashing the Ancient One in Dr Strange and the mediocrity of Iron Fist.

The BP comparisons doesn't surprise me since Simu Liu has been open about the fact that BP paved the way for Shang Chi.

A big budget Shang Chi movie. Man, I never thought I would live to see the day. I only own one Shang Chi comic and always kind of liked him. I knew he was around but I never expected to see him get this kind of treatment. Add him to another character I never expected to see on the big screen or procure a massive global fan base. lol. I need to catch up on some reading to prepare for this movie.

Apparently this trailer is being greatly disliked in China?

https://thedirect.com/article/marvel...ative-reaction

apparently they think the actor is... ugly?

They will do and say anything to make this movie bomb. There was another article where someone was digging up his old tweets to try and find something problematic.

[John Venus]

I agree. Marvel has a few other Asian characters, like Jimmy Woo, who's already in the MCU, and Amadeus Cho and Silk, who don't follow the martial arts stereotype. Hopefully they'll join the MCU. Too bad for Hogun, though

We are also getting Gemma Chan as Sersei in Eternals and she is said to be the lead Eternal in the film. Ms Marvel is also coming out this year and Hailee Steinfield as Kate Bishop in the Hawkeye show.

I'm hoping they use Jimmy Woo's popularity in WandaVision to springboard an 'Agents of Atlas' series.

[Ascended]

I agree. Marvel has a few other Asian characters, like Jimmy Woo, who's already in the MCU, and Amadeus Cho and Silk, who don't follow the martial arts stereotype. Hopefully they'll join the MCU. Too bad for Hogun, though

Yeah I'm with you and Tien on this too. I think we all discussed that a bit when this movie was first announced; that it was great that Shang was getting a film and it was great for Asian/Asian American communities, but it's martial arts, and...yeah. Like, nobody's upset Shang's getting a movie, we're f*cking stoked, but we all know this is a comfortable niche that Bruce Lee made "safe" and we can't allow this (and scary supernatural wizard-y guys) to be the only niche these characters get.

We do have two Asian/Americans in Eternals though; Gemma Chan as Sersi and Ma Dong-seok as Gilgamesh. It's just a team ensemble and not lead roles, and I have no idea who these characters are and how important they are to the franchise, but still, it's a damn diverse cast. Edit: crap, John beat me to it!

Oh, and if we include Agents of SHIELD in the discussion we've also had Melinda May and Quake. And Quake was written (or they at least tried) as an Avengers level badass, was good at practically everything (except love! Sad) and borderlined on complete Mary Sue territory. And she didn't really fit any Asian stereotypes, to my knowledge.

[CosmiComic]

Didn't he criticize Mark Wahlberg on Twitter then later work with him?

[CosmiComic]

Yeah I'm with you and Tien on this too. I think we all discussed that a bit when this movie was first announced; that it was great that Shang was getting a film and it was great for Asian/Asian American communities, but it's martial arts, and...yeah. Like, nobody's upset Shang's getting a movie, we're f*cking stoked, but we all know this is a comfortable niche that Bruce Lee made "safe" and we can't allow this (and scary supernatural wizard-y guys) to be the only niche these characters get.

We do have two Asian/Americans in Eternals though; Gemma Chan as Sersi and Ma Dong-seok as Gilgamesh. It's just a team ensemble and not lead roles, and I have no idea who these characters are and how important they are to the franchise, but still, it's a damn diverse cast. Edit: crap, John beat me to it!

Oh, and if we include Agents of SHIELD in the discussion we've also had Melinda May and Quake. And Quake was written (or they at least tried) as an Avengers level badass, was good at practically everything (except love! Sad) and borderlined on complete Mary Sue territory. And she didn't really fit any Asian stereotypes, to my knowledge.

I usually avoid the term Mary Sue.

But I see what you're saying. In Hollywood the only way most Asian men lead action movies is with martial arts. We also need more Asian heroes with powers like Dr. Strange or ant man or Iron Man, for instance

[mace11]

We do have two Asian/Americans in Eternals though; Gemma Chan as Sersi and Ma Dong-seok as Gilgamesh. It's just a team ensemble and not lead roles, and I have no idea who these characters are and how important they are to the franchise, but still, it's a damn diverse cast. Edit: crap, John beat me to it!

Gemma Chan will be the main main lead.
Meaning she will get the most focus from what i read since she will be the main main lead in this team film.
Other asians in the main cast in the film will be Kumail Nanjiani(south asian)as Kingo,and Salma Hayek is part asian(south west asian) in real life.
She is part arab(lebanon).
I think her character however in film will be only latino and not part arab but who knows,it might be part arab as well or not.
Anyway there have been asians in most marvel shows since early marvel tv.
Heck some of the early marvel shows had asian leads like asian spider man etc..

Asian marvel superhero silk will have own her sony marvel show but that will not be canon to the mcu films and not canon to the canon and non canon shows.

[mace11]

Here some talk about asians in mcu marvel tv under jeph loeb.
It's not canon to mcu films and disney plus marvel shows but it's still mcu.

Diversity in the MCU: Marvel TV Was Always Ahead of the Curve
While Marvel Studios should be praised for going in a more diverse direction, it shouldn't be forgotten that Marvel TV was the trailblazer.

Following the success of Marvel Studios blockbusters like Black Panther and Captain Marvel, as well as the announcement of such Phase Four projects as Black Widow, Eternals, Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings and Thor: Love and Thunder, it’s safe to say the Marvel Cinematic Universe is heading in a more diverse and inclusive direction. This, of course, is great. However, with these announcements gaining traction and the word “first” being thrown around a lot, it appears some have already forgot that Marvel Television has been pushing for diversity for quite some time now.

For instance, fans of ABC’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. have already taken exception to posts claiming Phase Four will feature Marvel’s first gay hero, Asian hero and Latina superhero leader, citing S.H.I.E.L.D. characters Joey Gutierrez, Quake and Yo-Yo, respectively, as a retort.

What’s more, they’re not the only ones. Natalia Cordova herself, who plays Yo-Yo/Elena Rodriguez on the ABC series, openly -- and to be frank, rightly -- criticized an article declaring Salma Hayek to be Marvel’s first Mexican heroine for her role in Eternals. After all, if you were actually the first to accomplish something, it stands to reason that seeing someone else getting the credit would irk you just a bit. Furthermore, Yo-Yo isn't even Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.’s only major Hispanic hero, as the show also introduced Gabriel Luna’s Robbie Reyes/Ghost Rider to the MCU, with the character set to star in a new solo series on Hulu.



Speaking of Hulu, while Eternals is certainly slated to feature a diverse superhero unit in and of itself, the titular heroes of Runaways arguably beat them to the punch in that respect. In addition to being a mostly female team, the Runaways are comprised of an African American leader in Rhenzy Feliz’s Alex Wilder, another Latina hero in Allegra Acosta’s Molly Hernandez, not to mention an Asian American heroine in Lyrica Okano’s Nico Minoru: who is also in a same-sex relationship with Virginia Gardner’s Karolina Dean, making Nico and Karolina -- not Thor's Valkyrie -- the MCU’s first leading LGBTQ+ heroes.

All of that said, the true testament to Marvel TV’s commitment to diversity lies within its Netflix dramas. The Marvel/Netflix project kicked off with Daredevil, which gave us the MCU’s first disabled leading hero in Matt Murdock. While including him here is admittedly a bit of a stretch -- seeing as how series star Charlie Cox isn't actually blind -- the point stands that Daredevil is one of Marvel's most iconic disabled heroes. Cox's version was also arguably the most prominent disabled character on television for a time, with the actor even being honored by the American Foundation for the Blind for his performance.

Daredevil’s first season was followed up by Jessica Jones, which -- alongside ABC’s Agent Carter -- was one of Marvel’s earliest female-led releases, and was unapologetic in its feminist edge. Seeing as how Jessica Jones came out before Runaways, the show also offered one of Marvel’s earliest on-screen examples of LGBTQ+ representation well before Avengers: Endgame’s group therapy scene. While not a superhero, Jeri Hogarth’s relationship drama was a major plot thread in the series’ first season, meaning her sexuality was not something only mentioned in passing.




Jessica Jones Season 1 also introduced Mike Colter’s Luke Cage to the MCU. While certainly not Marvel’s first major Black on-screen hero, Luke was the first to star in his own major solo project with a predominantly Black cast, with Netflix’s Luke Cage uniting the likes of Colter, Mahershala Ali, Alfre Woodard, Simone Missick and Marvel Netflix mainstay Rosario Dawson, among others. The show was also sure to address political topics relevant to Black communities in a streetwise manner, which certainly befit what the character of Luke Cage represents.

On that note, you can’t really talk about the legacy of Luke Cage without also discussing Iron Fist at some point. While controversy surrounding Finn Jones’ casting as Danny Rand ran rampant when Iron Fist Season 1 launched on Netflix, the fact remains that the series' cast still featured a strong Asian American presence, which included Jessica Henwick’s Colleen Wing, who -- like Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.’s Quake -- was one of the MCU's first major Asian American heroes.


Additionally, while Marvel initially caught flak for deciding to stick with the comics and cast a white actor as Iron Fist, by the time The Defenders miniseries hit Netflix, it was clear there was a reason for it beyond simple faithfulness to the source material. The iconic duo of Luke Cage and Danny Rand uniting in live-action for the first time offered Netflix yet another opportunity to address relevant political issues -- specifically pertaining to privilege -- as the two vastly different characters worked out their problems, slowly growing from rivals to teammates and, eventually, best friends (a process aided by the fact that Jones and Colter share top-notch chemistry.) Moreover, all the aforementioned elements of Marvel’s Netflix lineup as a whole converged in The Defenders, making it arguably one of Marvel’s most diverse ensembles to date.

Make no mistake, the purpose of this piece is not to chastise Marvel Studios for being late to the party, so to speak. On the contrary, the studio should be praised for committing to the idea of diversity in such a strong way for its Phase Four slate and beyond. There’s always room for more inclusion, and a lot of talented individuals have been brought into the fold, which is definitely a plus. Rather, this is simply about giving due credit to Marvel’s TV shows -- and more importantly, the people behind them -- who walked so their big screen counterparts could run. Because credit doesn't appear to be something they're getting enough of, if the Natalia Cordova situation is anything to go on.

https://static2.cbrimages.com/wordpr...&h=369&dpr=1.5

Something important that should be noted, however, is that while it can certainly be frustrating for both the fans and stars of Marvel TV to see countless articles proudly cataloguing all the Marvel “firsts” Phase Four will bring to the table, it’s not hard to see why such a perspective exists.

After all, as great as a lot of the aforementioned TV shows are, the fact remains that the movies are always going to reach a wider, more mainstream audience. Hence, why Marvel Studios fully committing to diversity for Phase Four is such a big deal. Films like Eternals, Shang-Chi and Thor: Love and Thunder are going to reach a lot more people than Marvel’s TV programs ever could, as well as afford plenty of new opportunities to underrepresented actors and filmmakers.


Marvel Studios is getting ready to do diversity in a big way, to be sure. Still, that doesn’t change the fact that Marvel Television did it first. Unfortunately, there is an observable trend of the contributions by Marvel’s small screen division being swept under the rug. While this is certainly a shame, it’s not exactly surprising. Despite the TV shows technically being considered part of the MCU, it’s become increasingly obvious over the years that anything not directly made by Marvel Studios doesn’t really get a proper seat at the table (though, that is a much more complex discussion for a different time).
In turn, it’s up to us as fans to never forget the push for diversity and inclusion made by Marvel Television, which has arguably paved the way for the future of Marvel Studios by proving that, yes, it is something a lot of people want.

https://www.cbr.com/mcu-diversity-marvel-tv-first/

Note- Elektra is asian in the daredevil show and defenders show by the way.
Helstrom had a asian character in the main cast as well.
I have not finish watching the show however and i plan to finish it later when i have more time.

[Spiderfan001]

This is looking even better than the series!

looks cool.Although I hate the troop of the main character *Shang* getting in a fight with a much more popular guest star (who also happens to be someone he has no business winning a fight against) and then getting in a position where he needs the main character to help him.I was hoping for some cool way of the Spider stuff but this ain't it for me.
Movie looks amazing btw

[Bolo]

About the mystical elements from the trailers, well like taozen have said, that look alot of an Iron Fist movie, and when we know that originally Feige wanted to make a movie based of "Immortal Iron Fist" comics:

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/ke...een-potential/

https://collider.com/kevin-feige-int...-the-avengers/

"what is the status of Iron Fist movie"

"KevinFeige: Hey Aaron, a very talented writer is currently working on a draft"

So it was something very serious for him, and I guess he have reused some elements from the different scripts; to be honest the purples fists of the Mandarin remind me of Davos, ; but in some way that a good thing to introduce most mystical elements because of Mandarin, and that could be useful if they want to reboot Iron Fist inside the Shang Chi franchise, if they would have make something too realistic, that could have been complicated to do.

Also like another member have said in the Iron fist Appreciation thread, Marvel wanted probably something different than the other spy movies like Cap America and Black Widows; visually that unique with various different styles; I'm positively surprised that some youtube reaction have compared that to James Bond, so this aspect have not been lost for the new viewers.

[CosmiComic]

About the mystical elements from the trailers, well like taozen have said, that look alot of an Iron Fist movie, and when we know that originally Feige wanted to make a movie based of "Immortal Iron Fist" comics:

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/ke...een-potential/

https://collider.com/kevin-feige-int...-the-avengers/

"what is the status of Iron Fist movie"

"KevinFeige: Hey Aaron, a very talented writer is currently working on a draft"

So it was something very serious for him, and I guess he have reused some elements from the different scripts; to be honest the purples fists of the Mandarin remind me of Davos, ; but in some way that a good thing to introduce most mystical elements because of Mandarin, and that could be useful if they want to reboot Iron Fist inside the Shang Chi franchise, if they would have make something too realistic, that could have been complicated to do.

Also like another member have said in the Iron fist Appreciation thread, Marvel wanted probably something different than the other spy movies like Cap America and Black Widows; visually that unique with various different styles; I'm positively surprised that some youtube reaction have compared that to James Bond, so this aspect have not been lost for the new viewers.

I still don't get how Cap is supposed to be a spy if he carries a huge shield with an American star.

[Immortal Hulk]

Thats a great cover!

[Immortal Hulk]

And my favorite variant for Shang Chi #1. Simply beautiful!

[Ascended]

I usually avoid the term Mary Sue.

But I see what you're saying. In Hollywood the only way most Asian men lead action movies is with martial arts. We also need more Asian heroes with powers like Dr. Strange or ant man or Iron Man, for instance

Yes, exactly. And I don't want to take away from this moment right now, right here, with a lot of talk about where we need to go afterwards; Shang getting a movie is huge, this is Black Panther levels of important and we need to celebrate and enjoy this. But as wonderful and long overdue as this is, this isn't the endgame, this is just where we start.

Or, well, we started with AoS and Iron Fist and all the other films and shows that have showcased interesting, dynamic Asian/American characters. But this is the first lead role, so y'all know what I mean.

And why do you avoid the term Mary Sue? Is there something about the term I don't know about?

Also, cool to hear that Gemma Chan will be the lead actor in Eternals. Don't know a damn thing about that franchise beyond they're Greek flavored New Gods, but I'm sure the film will be a lot of fun.