[Theory] - Have the Mutants been actually tricked?

[Ursalink]

That literally is not a good way of proving his run was bad lol.



It wasn't forgotten, it was acknowledged in X-Men #3. There are protocols for this.



The villains are there for specific reasons. And they're now more in check than they ever were.

1º) No, but it shows how pissed a lot of Spider-Fans got.

2º) And how longer they think they can keep it under control? It's literally like you trying to keep Mother Nature under your control, and you can't.

3º) Yeah, right. If they were that checked, they would have been stopped Sebastian Shaw from killing Kitty Pryde. But NO!, they think humans kill her and they even bothered to investigate.

[Veitha]

1º) No, but it shows how pissed a lot of Spider-Fans got.

2º) And how longer they think they can keep it under control? It's literally like you trying to keep Mother Nature under your control, and you can't.

3º) Yeah, right. If they were that checked, they would have been stopped Sebastian Shaw from killing Kitty Pryde. But NO!, they think humans kill her and they even bothered to investigate.

No, it shows how crazy some fans are.

They're keeping Krakoa under control just fine and they've got protocols for that. Krakoa is a mutant, it's not Mother Nature. And they have a couple mutants who can also control Mother Nature if you think about it lol.

Apoc and Sinister are useful to the island, Shaw is a piece of shit and yeah he was able to do some of the same stuff he used to do in the past. But now they live under Krakoan Laws, which means they cannot kill humans like they used to and they're going to be punished if they break the law. And Sinister is allowing them to Resurrect dead mutants, which means that he's now doing more good than the bad he did.

[Steel Inquisitor]

No, it shows how crazy some fans are.

They're keeping Krakoa under control just fine and they've got protocols for that. Krakoa is a mutant, it's not Mother Nature. And they have a couple mutants who can also control Mother Nature if you think about it lol.

The second it looks like things are going sideways Selene's going to check out of Krakoa so fast lol

Apoc and Sinister are useful to the island, Shaw is a piece of shit and yeah he was able to do some of the same stuff he used to do in the past. But now they live under Krakoan Laws, which means they cannot kill humans like they used to and they're going to be punished if they break the law.

Exactly, they're not changing it's just the "X-men" are useful to them now. Krakoa Laws, as in breed more, be respectful to krakoa the entity and kill not humans - so anything else goes? Apocalypse isn't getting any punishment for abusing Xavier's students and you just know Sinister's doing bad things under their radar. If there's anyone on the island who'll be able to do things to fool the various former super-heroes on the island under their noses it's him. Didn't he betray Krakao in a past life of Moira X?

And Sinister is allowing them to Resurrect dead mutants, which means that he's now doing more good than the bad he did.

Hannibal Lecter's friendly to Will Graham when he wants something, too. Doesn't mean Will's not on the menu.

[Veitha]

^ headcanon about Selene. Xavier put psychic blocks on Sinister to prevent him from betraying them. It's all what ifs at this point.

Sinister is crucial in overturn all the bad that has happened to mutants, from Genosha to M'Day, and even what he himself has done.

[Steel Inquisitor]

^ headcanon about Selene. Xavier put psychic blocks on Sinister to prevent him from betraying them. It's all what ifs at this point.

Are we talking about the same Selene? She's not a team player, she's a narcissist who's out for herself. Her main goal in life is to become a goddess by using the souls of people to feed the process. Psychic blocks on a genius who taught the High Evolutionary all he knew, who's a world class telepath that dismantled Nate Grey's psychic defenses with ease, who routinely transforms his very body with sciences even Beast can't understand, who's made himself a hive mind so he can be in more than once place at any give time. I know you like the guy, but c'mon. Is it really betrayal when everyone knows he's not on their side?

Sinister is crucial in overturn all the bad that has happened to mutants, from Genosha to M'Day, and even what he himself has done.

I know why he's there, that's not a defense. It's what he'd rely on to make sure nobody messes with him because he's not "replaceable." Classic bad guy move.

[Ursalink]

Apoc and Sinister are useful to the island, Shaw is a piece of shit and yeah he was able to do some of the same stuff he used to do in the past. But now they live under Krakoan Laws, which means they cannot kill humans like they used to and they're going to be punished if they break the law. And Sinister is allowing them to Resurrect dead mutants, which means that he's now doing more good than the bad he did.

Leaving aside the "Kill No Human" law, which I'm sure it will be broken soon many times, Shaw killed Kitty (a fellow Mutant), and ironically, the only one who can't be resurrected by their protocols. They didn't bothered to investigate and blamed the humans.

And about Mr Sinister, who really think that? Who says Mr Sinister doesn't have any kind of "trap" in those cloned bodies? Because that's exactly what he would do.

Also, they are starting to have serious problems in their society. In a recent issue, they showed the "Resurrection team" is being overloaded with resurrections' request. When they reach their limit, there's going to be a lot of problems inside Krakoa's society.

There's also ONE enormous problem incoming for Krakoa. As much as they try, they won't be able to hide the resurrection's protocols forever; they will be revealed to the world at some point, and when they will, the whole world will turn against them. Why? Easy. Mutants can't kill humans now, but how about ALL the humans they killed before that? What about the innocent humans that mutans killed either by accident or intentionally (by Mutant villains like Magneto)? Do you think people will accept Mutants cheat death after they killed their beloved ones in the past?

[Veitha]

Leaving aside the "Kill No Human" law, which I'm sure it will be broken soon many times, Shaw killed Kitty (a fellow Mutant), and ironically, the only one who can't be resurrected by their protocols. They didn't bothered to investigate and blamed the humans.

And about Mr Sinister, who really think that? Who says Mr Sinister doesn't have any kind of "trap" in those cloned bodies? Because that's exactly what he would do.

Also, they are starting to have serious problems in their society. In a recent issue, they showed the "Resurrection team" is being overloaded with resurrections' request. When they reach their limit, there's going to be a lot of problems inside Krakoa's society.

There's also ONE enormous problem incoming for Krakoa. As much as they try, they won't be able to hide the resurrection's protocols forever; they will be revealed to the world at some point, and when they will, the whole world will turn against them. Why? Easy. Mutants can't kill humans now, but how about ALL the humans they killed before that? What about the innocent humans that mutans killed either by accident or intentionally (by Mutant villains like Magneto)? Do you think people will accept Mutants cheat death after they killed their beloved ones in the past?

Yeah that's called Shaw playing smart. Kate was found dead on a human ship after they fought against human villains. Thinking it was Verendi is pretty logical.

Why do mutants need humans to accept what they do? They're carving their place in the world after years of persecution, as long as they don't harm anyone they don't need to answer to humans about anything, especially the Resurrection of mutants that have been harmed by humans or that have been killed because of human tech.

And they've been kind enough to give humans life changing drugs that will solve countless issues.

The Five not being able to Resurrect everyone instantly has been acknowledged in the books.

You just don't like the direction, no need to paint the mutants as the bad guys because of that lol.

Are we talking about the same Selene? She's not a team player, she's a narcissist who's out for herself. Her main goal in life is to become a goddess by using the souls of people to feed the process. Psychic blocks on a genius who taught the High Evolutionary all he knew, who's a world class telepath that dismantled Nate Grey's psychic defenses with ease, who routinely transforms his very body with sciences even Beast can't understand, who's made himself a hive mind so he can be in more than once place at any give time. I know you like the guy, but c'mon. Is it really betrayal when everyone knows he's not on their side?



I know why he's there, that's not a defense. It's what he'd rely on to make sure nobody messes with him because he's not "replaceable." Classic bad guy move.

I find it funny that you accused me of fanon and all of this is what if and what if but what if stuff. Selene and Emplate are monitored themselves through other protocols.

Xavier asked Sinister to come on board. And the fact he's allowing Resurrections is a big defense on why he's there.

[cyclops_was_right]

I'm not sure whether tricked is the correct term, but it's generally acknowledged that some of the things going on are fishy. And it's not just Moira, by now after all the unethical things Xavier has done over the years, it's strange to see some of the characters to trust him so completely.

Krakoa is pretty much a mutant utopia and utopias don't generally last forever.

However Hickman has put so much world-building into this particular utopia, so we're a long way away from Krakoa ending. It might very well be the center of X-men stories for the next several years.

If the current regime eventually crumbles, it will be because some of the core X-men will become disillusioned eventually as they slowly uncover all the small hints that are already being dropped. But even that doesn't have to mean that it will be the end of Krakoa, it can continue to exist in a different form than the current status quo.

[Veitha]

I'm not sure whether tricked is the correct term, but it's generally acknowledged that some of the things going on are fishy. And it's not just Moira, by now after all the unethical things Xavier has done over the years, it's strange to see some of the characters to trust him so completely.

Krakoa is pretty much a mutant utopia and utopias don't generally last forever.

However Hickman has put so much world-building into this particular utopia, so we're a long way away from Krakoa ending. It might very well be the center of X-men stories for the next several years.

If the current regime eventually crumbles, it will be because some of the core X-men will become disillusioned eventually as they slowly uncover all the small hints that are already being dropped. But even that doesn't have to mean that it will be the end of Krakoa, it can continue to exist in a different form than the current status quo.

Yeah, exactly. We're obviously swimming in a grey area and there are a lot of unusual players involved, but that doesn't mean that everything will crumble in a week. Having all these players involved and seeing mutants doing good for once is what makes it interesting.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Yeah that's called Shaw playing smart. Kate was found dead on a human ship after they fought against human villains. Thinking it was Verendi is pretty logical.

Why do mutants need humans to accept what they do? They're carving their place in the world after years of persecution, as long as they don't harm anyone they don't need to answer to humans about anything, especially the Resurrection of mutants that have been harmed by humans or that have been killed because of human tech.

And they've been kind enough to give humans life changing drugs that will solve countless issues.

The Five not being able to Resurrect everyone instantly has been acknowledged in the books.

You just don't like the direction, no need to paint the mutants as the bad guys because of that lol.

Because they live on the Earth with them, many of them are friends, colleagues and family. The concern for humans destroying mutant kind is constantly bought up, and for good reason, but appealing to humans to live in harmony is just too much work. Who needs that?

Do the drugs live up to their reputations? How does humanity feel about them in general?

You don't need to dislike the books to scrutinise the direction is going, Hickman likes his controversial anti-heroes - readers weren't supposed to be supporting the Illuminati.

I find it funny that you accused me of fanon and all of this is what if and what if but what if stuff. Selene and Emplate are monitored themselves through other protocols.

We're comic fans, speculating comes with the territory. Fanon is about past and current continuity, not thinking about the future. Thinking all the villains are great citizens, despite their past and when some of them show their true colors, like Shaw, is fanon. Shaw's more trustworthy than Selene is. Have you read any comics with the characters in it before Krakoa? Why do you you trust them so much? They're monitoring themselves, what could fo wrong? lol

Exactly what do these "monitors" do in krakoa because they're failing at every turn right now. Shaw and Apocalypse get to do whatever they want and the QC look the other way or don't know about it. The X-men didn't use to be this sloppy, their villains had to work to get one over them.

Xavier asked Sinister to come on board. And the fact he's allowing Resurrections is a big defense on why he's there.

Xavier thinks Apocalypse physically abusive with Rogue is a non-issue, he's got as much "credit" as Magneto does with me at this point. This is moving the goalposts, all a villain has to do is shake a hand and they're completely trustworthy. Sorry, not buying it.

Edit: Now this interesting, from X-men's Free Comic Book Day issue. Opal Luna Saturnyne does tarot reading when something "blinds" her sight and she describes it as "the fire and ash of war."



Betrayal. Mystique is the obvious one, but there are far more suspects. Could even be Xavier himself or Moira X with this Krakoa gambit.



Civil war?

[Veitha]

You're just using the single instance of Rogue being put in the coffin to paint it like Apocalypse is going left and right destroying countries. Even Rogue didn't care about it, it's not like X-Men haven't crossed lined before or put their own teammates at risk before. Read post Decimation comics. Please. They're more under control now than when they were roaming the planet and killing humans freely. The rest is indeed your speculation and not anything factual. I'm glad you're admitting it.

And are you really going at it again with "have you read comics before this"? I have explained you why the villains are there countless times. You're taking single instances and pumping them up to a hundred to "prove" your point. Without considering all the good they're doing for both mutants and humans.

There are protocols to monitor Selene and Emplate, stay on topic. All your talk about Selene betraying them is because you want her to betray them to have the X-Men look like the bad guys while on paper it isn't like that. I'm sorry for sticking to what's been said in the real comics.

[Steel Inquisitor]

You're just using the single instance of Rogue being put in the coffin to paint it like Apocalypse is going left and right destroying countries. Even Rogue didn't care about it, it's not like X-Men haven't crossed lined before or put their own teammates at risk before. Read post Decimation comics. Please. They're more under control now than when they were roaming the planet and killing humans freely. The rest is indeed your speculation and not anything factual. I'm glad you're admitting it.

That incident by itself should have Xavier throwing Apocalypse in the pit ASAP. He isn't, why? Is being physically abusive even against the law in Krakoa? He has, in fact, taken over a country - Avalon. A key reason how he did it as forcing Betsy to fight her brother to the death, which she hated. This is on his trip tfor cosmic power, because Apocalypse with cosmic power has worked out well for everyone before.



You know Rogue killed him for that, that's how badly he violated her. When X-men cross lines it's about killing bad guys, they don't do anything like this. This is just Apocalypse being himself, pain and death is what keeps him warm.

Please, don't use Decimation to protect Apocalypse and the other villains abusing other mutants.

Biding time isn't "under control." The only reason they're not more reckless is because they won the philosophy battle with the X-men. They're thousands of time bombs waiting to go off.

And are you really going at it again with "have you read comics before this"? I have explained you why the villains are there countless times. You're taking single instances and pumping them up to a hundred to "prove" your point. Without considering all the good they're doing for both mutants and humans.

Again? There wasn't a first time I said that to you lol That's moving the goal posts and a deflection, it explains nothing other then why they're there - which everyone knows. I'm taking current examples and histories of well known mutant super-villains, which aren't hard to read if you've read X-men comics or watched any media they're in. The twist for them would be that they don't betray Krakoa. So all Ultron has to do to get on humanity's good side forever is to give them drugs and pinky swear he won't harm anyone and it's all good. Intriguing.

There are protocols to monitor Selene and Emplate, stay on topic. All your talk about Selene betraying them is because you want her to betray them to have the X-Men look like the bad guys while on paper it isn't like that. I'm sorry for sticking to what's been said in the real comics.

Do you know what they are? And why aren't there any protocols on villains like Apocalypse, Mystique and Shaw? I don't want Selene to betray them, I just expect her to because that's in her nature.
I don't need to do anything to make the "X-men" look like bad guys, they do it for me. This is where Walter White really starts getting into the drug trade, hooking up with Saul Goodman and making an alliance with Gastavo Fring. Real good stuff!

That last part is very debatable. Personally, I count comics in continuity before Krakoa.

Is this what people thought when Hannibal was on the air in the first season? Hannibal's a good guy, sure he's creepy but he's Will's friend. Oh no, Hannibal what are you eating?

[Thundershot]

Think again. Comic character never "evolve" for so much time, they always return to point zero; as much as we like those changes. Like Spider-Man becoming rich like Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne, or Venom bonded with Flash Thompson. Where's the X-Men role in Marvel? They are a minority of super-powered individuals hated and feared who fight to survive; and that where they will return. And considering how many enemies the X-Men are gathering against Krakoa, it's obvious it won't last much time anymore. In fact, it's quite possible the end of "X of Swords" will end up with Krakoa destroyed after all and Mutants back to square one. The title of the conclussion is "Destruction".



Look, pal, "Superior Spider-Man" could have been better accepted from the beginning if it would have started like it went through its second part. That is, Doc Ock taking over a cloned body of Peter Parker and gaining part of his memories; but NOT USURPING THE LIFE OF THE REAL PETER PARKER!!!! Don't you remember Dan Slott received a lot of death's threats for it?

As for Wolverine, he also acts different. I mean, he's quite alright having a "three way relationship" with Jean Grey, when he always tried to be the Alpha facing Cyclops. Not to mention we saw him playing with kids as a "friendly neighborhood" instead of acting as Wolverine usually do: a mad dog. Wolverine clearly keeps his real self, but something is affecting him too.

There are other two weird things around here:
1º) Everybody seems to have forgotten than Krakoa FEEDS on Mutants, although it seems there are so many Mutants here that he doesn't need to drain them dry to feed. But how much time will pass before Krakoa returns to his original self.

2º) They allowed all villain Mutants to live in Krakoa as nothing. How much time they think it will pass before the villains openly returns to his old ways? Do you truly believe Sinestro will stop doing horrible experiments, or Apocalypse will cease his old "only strong survive" thing? Krakoa represents everything against Apocalypse's believe: It's a paradise where strong get weak, instead of getting stronger to survive. (Something like what happened to the Dodo Bird).

I disagree. If they had done the clone body, it wouldn’t have had the same impact. The whole point of the story was him taking over Peter’s lives. Everyone from the beginning knew it was temporary, so I don’t know why people got their panties in a bunch. There’s always a rabid fandom, I guess. Ask poor Ron Marz about death threats... lol

As for Krakoa...It won’t be the permanent status quo. It might go on for a couple years, but eventually the next big thing will happen and it’ll change. Comics Companies are afraid to have any kind of permanent change. Everything seems to go back to the status quo at some point. The most recent permanent change to an iconic team or individual I can think of is the introduction of Valeria Richards. And that was 2002. Even Peter Parker can’t stay married.

What I think will happen is that one of the villains (Sinister, Poxy, whoever) will take over the island (With the other villains), kidnap Moira and the Five, or have someone like Mimic who can copy 5 powers at a time, and boot the hero X-Men out. It’ll become World War Krakoa, with the X-Men on the outside standing with the heroes they treated like garbage. And those heroes will help them because that’s what heroes do. Krakoa will probably be destroyed in the end. Then it’s back to school, but a huge mending will happen between mutants and humans... until the next time.

[Ferro]

I disagree. If they had done the clone body, it wouldn’t have had the same impact. The whole point of the story was him taking over Peter’s lives. Everyone from the beginning knew it was temporary, so I don’t know why people got their panties in a bunch. There’s always a rabid fandom, I guess. Ask poor Ron Marz about death threats... lol

As for Krakoa...It won’t be the permanent status quo. It might go on for a couple years, but eventually the next big thing will happen and it’ll change. Comics Companies are afraid to have any kind of permanent change. Everything seems to go back to the status quo at some point. The most recent permanent change to an iconic team or individual I can think of is the introduction of Valeria Richards. And that was 2002. Even Peter Parker can’t stay married.

What I think will happen is that one of the villains (Sinister, Poxy, whoever) will take over the island (With the other villains), kidnap Moira and the Five, or have someone like Mimic who can copy 5 powers at a time, and boot the hero X-Men out. It’ll become World War Krakoa, with the X-Men on the outside standing with the heroes they treated like garbage. And those heroes will help them because that’s what heroes do. Krakoa will probably be destroyed in the end. Then it’s back to school, but a huge mending will happen between mutants and humans... until the next time.

what happens to every non xmen book? new mutants, x factor, x force, excalibur, etc etc ? do they get shoved into the mansion too? or they get trown around random locations that have no actual interest because for so many years the xmen were stuck in a stinky mansion witout many interesting locations?

is the mansion big enough for literaly an entire island of characters? what happens then?

oh wait, i know what happens, most of those will be canceled, put into limbo and used as wallpapper, any young mutant that had a shred of development will be reduced to a student status as a new writer makes up new students to be his pets, the stories will return to a spinning weel of rotating and repetitive villains that get not change whatsover because nostalgia is king.

Until it reaches under 20 k sales then its time to reboot.

we do know whats that like, the period after schism and especially utopia, where we went from an array of characters getting used and exploring the city of san francisco instead of all being clumped up in a mansion, allowed for teams such as x force, new mutants and x factor to have a level of space while remaining conected to the overarching narrative, once everyone was shoved into a mansion the conections that should have become stronger became weaker, any potential is strangled out because you know sentinels or purifiers will kill students and make the mansion explode and the titles have the same characters and the same setting, remember xmen vol4 , wolverine and the xmen and amazing xmen AND all new xmen? good times, such diversity.

Every time the xmen return to a status quo after a level of actual inovation, they suck, they suck immensly.
It sucked in the 90s, it sucked after utopia, it sucked in xmen gold, the mansion is a stiffle for the franchise.

Krakoa is for the entire concept of mutants and all its difrent titles, its not just for the x-men and thats what many of you need to understand, the main team of superheroes dummies may return to the mansion sure, as it was originaly before it grew into a massive school , but if you remove krakoa you lose more than you win and thats a pure fact.

Krakoa has done more to revitalize the franchise with new villains, visuals and stories than the mansion has in decades, because no matter how you change its name and layout, its still a forgetable base of operations that only worked when the xmen were barely above the double digit membership.
but even then it grew into a bigger school, krakoa is another change.

your last paragraph is immensly silly as well in theory, the 5 have 3 omega level mutants, one called freaking hope summers that in a mutant vs mutant fight is pratically unbeatable, if they want to take down anyone, they can.

I completly disagree with your entire statement.

[Big Joe]

Nice post Ferro.

I personally think there are years of stories to explore here, some far more obvious than others. I think there's scope for the use of all kinds of different characters. There's exploration of the political situation to come, there's stories about the motivation of the major players. At some stage Moira will be reintroduced to everyone which creates even more stories.

There's going to be falling out as some suspect they're being controlled, there will be splits of other kinds, there will be attempted power grabs.

Krakoa may become whole again, what happens then? The first Horsemen. What will they do? Where will they fit in? How long will the Quiet Council last? Will there be more laws? What will be the result of "Make More Mutants".

I know lots of people are saying this can last a couple of years, but I see it as a ten year plan, with no going back. If handled properly all round and written sympathetically, there's no reason why it doesn't continue forever.