All purpose news and politics thread part v: The quickening

[Tami]

Crazed ‘MAGA mom’ interrupts MSNBC live shot to rant about impeachment ‘coup’

MSNBC’s Garrett Haake struggled to maintain his focus after a Trump supporter interrupted his live shot from the U.S. Capitol to report on the impeachment process.

Shortly after the House Judiciary Committee approved two articles of impeachment, Texas realtor Trisha Hope — a self-described “MAGA mom” who peddles books compiling President Donald Trump’s tweets — set off with her cell phone and recorded herself pestering lawmakers and reporters in the Capitol corridors.

First she berated Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX), saying the late Democratic lawmaker Barbara Jordan would be “rolling over in her grave” watching her performance during impeachment hearings, and then encountered Haake.

“He’s a coup master is what he is, he’s a coup master,” Hope shouted, as a producer tried to usher her away from the reporter. “I can speak, it’s free speech. Don’t you touch me. He’s a coup master, he has nothing to do with impeachment — it’s a coup. It’s a great, big, fat coup. That’s what it is, it’s a coup, we all know it’s a coup. They fooled no one, they fooled absolutely no one.”

[numberthirty]

Doubtful. People said the same thing about Trump who’s clearly overweight (despite the bullshit about being only 239 pounds), doesn’t exercise, save for when he plays golf, dines on fast food, and god only knows how much sleep he gets at night when he’s not busy rage tweeting, and that’s all on top of the day to day stress that comes from being president, and yet, he hasn’t keeled over. Perhaps hate and spite keeps Trump going, who knows, but if the job hasn’t done him in, Biden and Sanders should have little trouble surviving the experience.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

There is no predicting who will and will not be left standing. Who called Scalia passing before he did?

Never mind that I would take an elderly Jimmy Carter over a lot of folks out there today.

[numberthirty]

Perhaps Biden won't push hard enough, but "actual execution" is hardly a strength to attribute to Bernie either.

Not that he "Won't Push Hard Enough..."

That I don't really buy into him having a plan to push to start with. I tend to believe that he has a "Get Into Office"/"Tread 'Business As Usual..." Water", and that is as far as the plan goes.

Pick whatever you believe Sanders' faults are. You will never make an even remotely serious case for lacking a plan of action being one of those faults.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Perhaps Biden won't push hard enough, but "actual execution" is hardly a strength to attribute to Bernie either.

The argument would be that Biden would keep a status quo that hurts people and lay progressive policies doormant for as long as he is there and push things back nearly a decade, while someone like Bernie in even his worst case scenario might just move the Overton window so that the country is more comfortabel with it even if he doesn't get the big things done. Also Bernie likely won't make **** deal with Republicans, Biden is absolutely a liability for some fucking war flub or corporate welfair bs.

[Theleviathan]

Not that he "Won't Push Hard Enough..."

That I don't really buy into him having a plan to push to start with. I tend to believe that he has a "Get Into Office"/"Tread 'Business As Usual..." Water", and that is as far as the plan goes.

Pick whatever you believe Sanders' faults are. You will never make an even remotely serious case for lacking a plan of action being one of those faults.

No, but I can make a robust case for his ability to execute such a plan.

[Theleviathan]

The argument would be that Biden would keep a status quo that hurts people and lay progressive policies doormant for as long as he is there and push things back nearly a decade, while someone like Bernie in even his worst case scenario might just move the Overton window so that the country is more comfortabel with it even if he doesn't get the big things done. Also Bernie likely won't make **** deal with Republicans, Biden is absolutely a liability for some fucking war flub or corporate welfair bs.

As you might see, you and thirty mean quite different things by the same phrase. I wont argue, that doesnt seem worthwhile, but I suggest you consider the eventual blowback. Bernie is in office, Republicans drive up frustration with largely false fear mongering, they eventually retake power. Bernie, as is his history, makes little actually happen. So we get all the blowback, none of the results.

I dont think moving the window, with no notable big things done as you say, is necessatily the net win you think it is.

[numberthirty]

No, but I can make a robust case for his ability to execute such a plan.

If that's the case, let's just get Warren and Sanders out of the race.

Heck, just cut out the middleman and vote for Trump.

[Theleviathan]

If that's the case, let's just get Warren and Sanders out of the race.

Heck, just cut out the middleman and vote for Trump.

That is not a particularly compelling argument to my counterpoint.

[numberthirty]

That is not a particularly compelling argument to my counterpoint.

That's because said counterpoint is largely hot garbage.

He isn't going to go up to Congress and arm wrestle for votes.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

As you might see, you and thirty mean quite different things by the same phrase. I wont argue, that doesnt seem worthwhile, but I suggest you consider the eventual blowback. Bernie is in office, Republicans drive up frustration with largely false fear mongering, they eventually retake power. Bernie, as is his history, makes little actually happen. So we get all the blowback, none of the results.

I dont think moving the window, with no notable big things done as you say, is necessatily the net win you think it is.

I mean Biden is running is as another Obama.

Obama got one thing passed, it's currently getting dismantled, meanwhile Democrats lost ground in Congress and got stonewalled for pretty much the entire Presidency and then an incredibly anti Obama candidate gave the Republicans the Presidency.

So we already saw what you just laid out happen with a canidate that is ideologically similar to Obama with less charisma and less vision.

So I don't really view that as a great counterpoint when we just saw that exact scenario happen in administration Biden was part of.

[numberthirty]

I mean Biden is running is as another Obama.

Obama got one thing passed, it's currently getting dismantled, meanwhile Democrats lost ground in Congress and got stonewalled for pretty much the entire Presidency and then an incredibly anti Obama candidate gave the Republicans the Presidency.

So we already saw what you just laid out happen with a canidate that is ideologically similar to Obama with less charisma and less vision.

So I don't really view that as a great counterpoint when we just saw that exact scenario happen in administration Biden was part of.

In addition to all of this, look at the effort that Biden is putting into his nomination effort.

While anything could happen, I'd say you could reasonably assume that he might put a similar effort into his time as President.

Meanwhile?

The guy who just had heart surgery got right back into the race.

I know which one I believe will put the most effort into creating actual change.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

In addition to all of this, look at the effort that Biden is putting into his nomination effort.

While anything could happen, I'd say you could reasonably assume that he might put a similar effort into his time as President.

Meanwhile?

The guy who just had heart surgery got right back into the race.

I know which one I believe will put the most effort into creating actual change.

If Biden was President they would not have gotten the ACA through. It's still likely a Dem wins and they don't get the Senate. Historically the next midterm is a defeat for the President's party. Biden might just speed it up so that a Republican who is slighltly charasmatic and not as scary Trump takes him out in one term after he gets nothing done. Think a Rubio type.

[numberthirty]

If Biden was President they would not have gotten the ACA through. It's still likely a Dem wins and they don't get the Senate. Historically the next midterm is a defeat for the President's party. Biden might just speed it up so that a Republican who is slighltly charasmatic and not as scary Trump takes him out in one term after he gets nothing done. Think a Rubio type.

Don't even get me started on Congress.

They are where I really have my doubts about being able to get even "A Noticeably Less Expensive Health Care Picture..." done for Americans. While they were for a "Yeah, We'll Help You Out With The Private, For Profit Health Insurance Plan Being A Less Steep Version Of 'Still Almost Too Expensive To Afford'...", I still doubt that they are going to have the nerve to really make some headway.

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

Don't even get me started on Congress.

They are where I really have my doubts about being able to get even "A Noticeably Less Expensive Health Care Picture..." done for Americans. While they were for a "Yeah, We'll Help You Out With The Private, For Profit Health Insurance Plan Being A Less Steep Version Of 'Still Almost Too Expensive To Afford'...", I still doubt that they are going to have the nerve to really make some headway.

If Democrat wins here is the spoiler alert.

1. They clean up the border camp mess. They fix some international relations. They sweeten up the really mess optical **** Trump did. However it won't be anything the average American actually feels.

2. They get stonewalled in Congress on anything meaningful because they don't have the balls to push for anything substantial.

3. The economy tanks and the Dems get all blame and the Republicans sell it as them ruining all of Trump's supposed economic success.

We have a deep week opposition party to the Republicans and a deeply shallow electorate.

[Theleviathan]

That's because said counterpoint is largely hot garbage.

He isn't going to go up to Congress and arm wrestle for votes.

It is merely pointing out a reality. Bernie has a long tenure in Congress with a short track record of accomplishments. You stated that "Execution" was a problem for Biden, I merely pointed out that Bernie has never executed any of his plans.

He's running for President, not Overlord. If he wants to "execute" his plan, he will have to arm wrestle for votes. There is simply not much evidence that he can. (hell, that he's even all that interested in doing so)

And, again, this is not a pro-anyone argument. Simply a highlight of a flaw/weakness, one which you invited by setting up something that was a weakness for another candidate. When your hand was in the cookie jar about "executing" you shifted to planning and now you're complaining about my factual statement on his record. So, no, it's not a compelling argument against my point. It's a weak attempt to doge it.