Rachel Anne Summers (Grey) 2021

[niconico00]

I don't get why people keep saying the Phoenix Force being allegedly Thor's real mother would make him related to Rachel. Disregarding Claremont's original plan for Rachel, in canon she's the daughter of an alternate-reality Scott Summers and Jean Grey, while Thor is the son of Odin and a cavewoman who at the time was possessed by the Phoenix Force, who then went on to also possess Jean Grey. I don't see how that makes Thor and Ray related though.

The article says that "In that timeline, Phoenix resisted the influence of Mastermind and never became Dark Phoenix; continuing to possess the form of Jean Grey, Phoenix remained with the X-Men for years, and they even had a daughter together".
I believe it's never been clearly addressed by CC what exactly happened in that timeline.

[Uncanny X-Man]

The article says that "In that timeline, Phoenix resisted the influence of Mastermind and never became Dark Phoenix; continuing to possess the form of Jean Grey, Phoenix remained with the X-Men for years, and they even had a daughter together".
I believe it's never been clearly addressed by CC what exactly happened in that timeline.

This is very interesting. In Alan Davis' retelling of Rachel's origin in Excalibur it's stated that the X-Men had never encountered Phoenix:



But if we go by the article above, it sounds like the Phoenix Force continued posing as Jean indefinitely, with the real Jean still supposedly at the bottom of Jamaica Bay, and even had a daughter with Scott. Meaning that Rachel would be the product of the Phoenix and Scott Summers, not the Phoenix and Jean Grey really. Although Claremont could always spin that any way he likes obviously, it's not like a cosmic force would need a human male to conceive a child anyway.

[Phoenixx9]

The article says that "In that timeline, Phoenix resisted the influence of Mastermind and never became Dark Phoenix; continuing to possess the form of Jean Grey, Phoenix remained with the X-Men for years, and they even had a daughter together".
I believe it's never been clearly addressed by CC what exactly happened in that timeline.

This is very interesting. In Alan Davis' retelling of Rachel's origin in Excalibur it's stated that the X-Men had never encountered Phoenix:



But if we go by the article above, it sounds like the Phoenix Force continued posing as Jean indefinitely, with the real Jean still supposedly at the bottom of Jamaica Bay, and even had a daughter with Scott. Meaning that Rachel would be the product of the Phoenix and Scott Summers, not the Phoenix and Jean Grey really. Although Claremont could always spin that any way he likes obviously, it's not like a cosmic force would need a human male to conceive a child anyway.

EXCEPT......originally, it was stated that on E-811, The PF merged with Jean as opposed to replacing her.

It was this bond that also prevented Jean from going dark as there was all of Jean's soul present and not just a fragment.

I believe this first story, where the PF bonded with Jean, is the true story.

[Micabe]

The article says that "In that timeline, Phoenix resisted the influence of Mastermind and never became Dark Phoenix; continuing to possess the form of Jean Grey, Phoenix remained with the X-Men for years, and they even had a daughter together".
I believe it's never been clearly addressed by CC what exactly happened in that timeline.

To blazes with that article -- nowhere in the pages does it say or even imply that Jean Grey resisted the influence of Mastermind and never became Dark Phoenix -- it only states that the X-Men of Earth-811 never encountered Phoenix.

[Uncanny X-Man]

EXCEPT......originally, it was stated that on E-811, The PF merged with Jean as opposed to replacing her.

Hmm interesting, do you remember where that was established?

[Phoenixx9]

Hmm interesting, do you remember where that was established?

Gee, that was so long ago. First guess would be Days of Future Past.

But...I don't think it was that early on.

I think it was when Rachel came to E-616 and she learned that "our" Jean was dead. Rachel was comparing the differences, like how "her" grandad saw through Jean's pain and anguish and loved her enough to accept her outburst, reinforcing Jean's positive attributes, and wondering why her E-616 GP did not.

[niconico00]

Gee, that was so long ago. First guess would be Days of Future Past.

But...I don't think it was that early on.

I think it was when Rachel came to E-616 and she learned that "our" Jean was dead. Rachel was comparing the differences, like how "her" grandad saw through Jean's pain and anguish and loved her enough to accept her outburst, reinforcing Jean's positive attributes, and wondering why her E-616 GP did not.

Yeah, this happened in Uncanny 199, which is before the retcon establishing Jean Grey and the Phoenix Force as two separate entities.

[Micabe]

niconico00, must I post the entire sequence of events of UXM #199 in order to prove (w/my personal commentary) just how wrong you are on both counts?

[juan678]

[Askani's Flame]

Fail. The fact that they casually mentioned Rachel, ignored any of her contributions, and have her less airtime in this than Hope or X-Man means it's garbage. I'd say they tried but they really didn't with this.

[Phoenixx9]

Fail. The fact that they casually mentioned Rachel, ignored any of her contributions, and have her less airtime in this than Hope or X-Man means it's garbage. I'd say they tried but they really didn't with this.

That's the thing---everyone thinks that they get the characters/the stories/the plots/what happened, but in reality, they really do not.....

[Askani's Flame]

That's the thing---everyone thinks that they get the characters/the stories/the plots/what happened, but in reality, they really do not.....

If I didn't know anything about Rachel prior to this video, I would think that she is a a character who appeared a few times in a spin-off "What If?" series who was a Phoenix and had a baby with Franklin Richards. And that is all.

[Phoenixx9]

If I didn't know anything about Rachel prior to this video, I would think that she is a a character who appeared a few times in a spin-off "What If?" series who was a Phoenix and had a baby with Franklin Richards. And that is all.

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. the guy doing the video did not get Rachel's relevance and relegated her to very minor inclusion. And if he got that wrong, he got other things wrong too. But he felt like he knew the stories enough to make a video.... Just sad.

[Askani's Flame]

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. the guy doing the video did not get Rachel's relevance and relegated her to very minor inclusion. And if he got that wrong, he got other things wrong too. But he felt like he knew the stories enough to make a video.... Just sad.

I would say he knew the characters names and did a quick Google search for pictures and drew his telling for Rachel, Ruby, Hope, Vulcan. Never mind ignoring Adam-X

[Drexelhand]

I already had a huge discussion about Rachel's origins and how Earth-811 diverges. Check the spoilers of Uncanny X-Men 140.5 I posted to get a glimpse as to what is coming, but until that issue is formally released, we won't know the exact divergence point.