Undoing One More Day - Consequences?

[Ursalink]

Given the most recent events in "Amazing Spider-Man", especially those involving the mysterious Kindred, I want to believe Marvel is in his way to finally undone the whole One More Day's stuff and bring back the Spider-Marriage between Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson. As fan of Spider-Man, nothing would make me happier. I think it's about time they finally let Peter Parker get "old", because the role of a "young teen Spider-Man" is already covered by Miles Morales. But as much as I wish this to be true, I can't avoid thinking about the consequences.

I mean, back when One More Day happens, they show us how the Wedding never happened; but besides that, it would appear as if the story of the 20 years of Spider-Marriage stayed the same. That was a complete nonsense, as without Mary Jane in scene, many past adventures of Spider-Man would have been differents. The only changes brought by OMD were:
+ Everyone forgot about Peter Parker's identity as Spider-Man, except Mary Jane and the Jackal.
+ Harry Osborn was mysteriously resurrected.
+ Peter lost the powers of The Other and returned to the mechanical webshooters.

So, with all this, how things would change if One More Day is finally undone and the Spider-Marriage restored? I have a list of potential consequences; many are good, but others are really bad. Let's see the first ones:
+ The first, and probably the saddest part, it would be the death of Aunt May. If this happens, then Peter's threat about killing Kingpin the moment Aunt May dies COULD happen.
+ In theory, Peter's identity would be public again, as considering Civil War, Peter would have to be on the run continuously.
+ If Civil War wasn't bad enough, Spider-Man having his identity in the public during Norman Osborn's Dark Reign would have been a real nightmare.
+ Finally, during the Grim Hunt, if the Kravens would have attacked Mary Jane as part of their revenge against Spider-Man, I'm afraid he could have crossed the line in retaliation.

As you can see, the first consequences of undoing One More Day would be catastrophic. I don't see Spider-Man's character surviving all this with his identity being revealed. The only way I can see Spider-Man could survive this would be if, by before the Civil War even started, Peter, Mary Jane (and maybe Aunt May), could make a "time skip" by the Web of Life and Destiny. (Similar to what Ock as Superior Spider-Man did during Spider-Verse). Skipping this whole thing COULD be the only way for Peter's family to survive.

Continuing with more consequences of undoing One More Day:
+ "Big Time" would have worked even better for Peter with Mary Jane at his side.
+ "Spider-Island": With Mary Jane having spent more time alongside Peter, she could have actually get stable Spider-Powers without risking turning into a Were-Spider. I would have liked that.
+ "Superior": With Mary Jane, Doc Ock's original plot would have failed; so Peter didn't lose his identity. Still, the Superior Spider-Man would still be "necessary", so Otto will become this with the Jackal's cloning technology.
+ "Parker Industries": With Mary Jane at his side, I want to believe Peter could have kept this company. It would have actually worked, as we saw in "Infinity Warps", with alternative versions of Peter and MJ leading Parker Industries together.
+ "Spider-Verse" and "Spider-Gedoon": I think it would have been interesting to see these stories with a Spider-Powered Mary Jane. (Yes, I know Spider-Geddon had Spinneret from RYV).
+ "Red Goblin": A Spider-Powered Mary Jane, along with Parker Industries' resources, would have surely made easier to beat the Red Goblin, and maybe Flash Thompson/Anti-Venom would still be alive.

Well, what do you think?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Given the most recent events in "Amazing Spider-Man", especially those involving the mysterious Kindred, I want to believe Marvel is in his way to finally undone the whole One More Day's stuff and bring back the Spider-Marriage between Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson.

Well undoing OMD can mean a lot of things.

-- There's having Peter Parker and/or MJ remember that they were married once, they had a deal with Mephisto and so on and regain their original memories.
-- Having the current version of Peter and MJ get married.
-- Undoing every story published between OMD and its undoing.

My feeling is that the best, simplest, and fairest way...stuff that can be done in a single issue...is have the current Peter and MJ get married, and remember the deal, that way every story before OMD, between OMD and its undoing, and afterwards gets to be in continuity and referred to as it was published.

So, with all this, how things would change if One More Day is finally undone and the Spider-Marriage restored?

Again that depends on whether Marvel chooses to undo or unravel every story. I don't think that's necessary.

As you can see, the first consequences of undoing One More Day would be catastrophic.

Only if that's the story Marvel wants to tell, but it's not strictly speaking necessary.

Well, what do you think?

The more interesting thing for me is the character consequences. What would it feel like as a writer and as a reader to deal with a Peter who remembers that he once married and grew up and then traded that away? The character dilemma of a guy who grew up and made a committment and then through no fault of his own had that taken from him could be interesting...I mean in the case of Scarlet Witch, her having children and becoming a mother and then having that taken from her including her memories of it, and then remembering it led to HOUSE OF M. Having Peter go through that would be interesting. At the very least, you just know Peter's first thought is, "Hey Mephisto, how fast can you run?" because he's going to find some way to get payback and it will be a big Spider-Man versus Overpowered Dude a la Firelord and Juggernaut. Then if Mary Jane knows and finds out how would she process and deal with that.

If you had them married again, both of them would do so knowing that it's a bond so pure that the devil came for it, but they would also do so knowing that it's a fragile committment and you could deal with the issues there. Also there's the fact that Peter and MJ in Post-OMD after they broke up had relationships again which would fall in that weird comics-limbo of not really adultery and so on. A lot of stuff to mine there.

In other words there's no shortage of drama and interest if and when Spider-Man gets married again. It's certainly an interesting status-quo far more interesting than anything Post-OMD offers.

Matt Fraction's "To Have and To Hold" was intended in part not only as a celebration and tribute to the marriage but as an insistence that there were still more stories to be told through and told with a married Peter/MJ.

[WebLurker]

My feeling is that the best, simplest, and fairest way...stuff that can be done in a single issue...is have the current Peter and MJ get married, and remember the deal, that way every story before OMD, between OMD and its undoing, and afterwards gets to be in continuity and referred to as it was published.

Yeah, I think resetting the timeline like OMD itself did would just make things even more confusing and be less accessible to any readers to came onboard way after the post-OMD status quo was the new norm. Besides, I'm not sure it's exactly something that would make for an interesting story in and of itself as it is a way to enable stories (I mean, even pro-OMD fans generally don't like the OMD story in and of itself, but they like the comics that the various writers built off that foundation).

[NC_Yankee]

Yeah, I think resetting the timeline like OMD itself did would just make things even more confusing and be less accessible to any readers to came onboard way after the post-OMD status quo was the new norm. Besides, I'm not sure it's exactly something that would make for an interesting story in and of itself as it is a way to enable stories (I mean, even pro-OMD fans generally don't like the OMD story in and of itself, but they like the comics that the various writers built off that foundation).

Here is one possibility: There was a movie called “Poor Devil” with Sammy Davis jr as an employee of Satan and Jack Klugman as his victim. who in exchange for wealth sold his soul. In the end, Klugman wants to get out of it, and he did because Davis made a mistake. Maybe, Mephisto screwed up intentionally or not, and because of that not only does OMD get reversed, but Peter keeps his identity hidden, the marriage is restored and Aunt May lived. Does it mean this will be the option Spencer chooses? Probably not. But it is an example of how to do it that is not far fetched or fan fiction.

[WebLurker]

Here is one possibility: There was a movie called “Poor Devil” with Sammy Davis jr as an employee of Satan and Jack Klugman as his victim. who in exchange for wealth sold his soul. In the end, Klugman wants to get out of it, and he did because Davis made a mistake. Maybe, Mephisto screwed up intentionally or not, and because of that not only does OMD get reversed, but Peter keeps his identity hidden, the marriage is restored and Aunt May lived. Does it mean this will be the option Spencer chooses? Probably not. But it is an example of how to do it that is not far fetched or fan fiction.

Or that Pinky and the Brain Halloween special, too.

Guess it would partially depend on the kind of story Spencer wants to tell and what the Marvel brass will okay. I mean, I'm honestly pretty skeptical that the marriage will come back any time soon.

[bob.schoonover]

Here is one possibility: There was a movie called “Poor Devil” with Sammy Davis jr as an employee of Satan and Jack Klugman as his victim. who in exchange for wealth sold his soul. In the end, Klugman wants to get out of it, and he did because Davis made a mistake. Maybe, Mephisto screwed up intentionally or not, and because of that not only does OMD get reversed, but Peter keeps his identity hidden, the marriage is restored and Aunt May lived. Does it mean this will be the option Spencer chooses? Probably not. But it is an example of how to do it that is not far fetched or fan fiction.

I agree this is probably not Spencer's preferred way out - I don't think that's a particularly satisfying option. Peter and MJ had agency and willfully entered the deal. Getting out of it on a technicality is in complete opposition to who Spider-man is (especially to those that believe the deal was, in and of itself, a repudiation of who SM is). I would assume Spencer's choice will be . . . pyrrhic. The deal gets broken but, say, (a) Aunt May dies, (b) MJ and Peter still break up, (c) Harry dies again, (d) MJ ends up in Hell, or (e) Peter's identity gets revealed/re-remembered by all (and that's just a short list - all sorts of options, and Spencer can mix and match if he wants).

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I agree this is probably not Spencer's preferred way out - I don't think that's a particularly satisfying option. Peter and MJ had agency and willfully entered the deal. Getting out of it on a technicality is in complete opposition to who Spider-man is (especially to those that believe the deal was, in and of itself, a repudiation of who SM is). I would assume Spencer's choice will be . . . pyrrhic. The deal gets broken but, say, (a) Aunt May dies, (b) MJ and Peter still break up, (c) Harry dies again, (d) MJ ends up in Hell, or (e) Peter's identity gets revealed/re-remembered by all (and that's just a short list - all sorts of options, and Spencer can mix and match if he wants).

I think editors and others are aware that any story that undoes OMD will bring in a lot of civilians as well as readers who skipped the monthly ongoing, so that story needs to be totally clear and self-contained, so Spider-Man has to defeat or screw over Mephisto in a satisfying way within that story. Any consequences and so on to that, they can be deffered down the road but the short to middle term has to register as a "win".

[bob.schoonover]

I think editors and others are aware that any story that undoes OMD will bring in a lot of civilians as well as readers who skipped the monthly ongoing, so that story needs to be totally clear and self-contained, so Spider-Man has to defeat or screw over Mephisto in a satisfying way within that story. Any consequences and so on to that, they can be deffered down the road but the short to middle term has to register as a "win".

I think that's mostly true (so maybe I'll take MJ ending up in Hell off the list), but, for example, Harry dying would be a reasonable splitting the difference - long time fans would understand the complexity and sadness Peter would feel, but casual readers would be like "oh, the demon/villain died, that happens."

I do think, though, the undoing of OMD will be a slower, longer burn story than you do. There might be a big to do in back to back stories in 900/100, but I'd imagine it'll be more like 850/50 where we have one big end in 900 and a new beginning in 100 that continues forward for awhile.

[Aura Blaize]

I have always said that pressing some magic button to completely undo OMD in the same way that OMD undid the marriage is a terrible idea.

Honestly, given that it's been almost fifteen years since OMD, I'm perfectly fine with it not being undone magically. Instead, the greatest victory would be Peter and MJ getting married again and they pull a "true love conquers all" type story.

If "undoing it" just means that they remember they were married once and nothing else changes or is retconned, then I'd be fine with that. I mean it seems pretty obvious that we're heading to the conclusion of Peter and MJ getting married again regardless.

[Darthfury78]

Rather than undoing OMD, Marvel should end Marvel-616.

[Morgoth]

Most likely, this will be limited to the fact that Peter and MJ can just get married again and, I think, they will have a child after all. And maybe Aunt May will die. But to specifically erase from reality all these years after the OMD, they clearly won't do that.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I agree this is probably not Spencer's preferred way out - I don't think that's a particularly satisfying option. Peter and MJ had agency and willfully entered the deal. Getting out of it on a technicality is in complete opposition to who Spider-man is (especially to those that believe the deal was, in and of itself, a repudiation of who SM is). I would assume Spencer's choice will be . . . pyrrhic. The deal gets broken but, say, (a) Aunt May dies, (b) MJ and Peter still break up, (c) Harry dies again, (d) MJ ends up in Hell, or (e) Peter's identity gets revealed/re-remembered by all (and that's just a short list - all sorts of options, and Spencer can mix and match if he wants).

I don't like the idea of Peter and MJ having to suffer consequences for the deal because I don't buy it being in character for them to make it in the first place. I see Peter's agency as no different from Wanda's in House of M, where she was written severely out of character just so Quesada can fulfill his real-life agenda. I would rather not see the onus be put on another character like that again.

At the same time, Peter and MJ simply getting married again doesn't make much sense in-universe, because you would have to explain where Mephisto is and why he is allowing it / not doing anything about it (unless Mephisto is killed in-universe by the time Peter and MJ get remarried, but it looks like there's no plans for that).

IMO, this is the trickiest part about undoing OMD. Writers have to get creative and bring up what happened in a way that makes all the characters' actions feel believable (I'm including Mephisto when I say "characters", since his logic in that story never made a lot sense either).

[Revolutionary_Jack]

IMO, this is the trickiest part about undoing OMD. Writers have to get creative and bring up what happened in a way that makes all the characters' actions feel believable (I'm including Mephisto when I say "characters", since his logic in that story never made a lot sense either).

OMD isn't really a story that played out in continuity in the pages of characters.

It's a story that played out between the creators and the fans and the wider public.

Remember when OMD was published, it actually made headlines. Tom Defalco said that a sports broadcast had commentators interrupt coverag to talk about it. OMD is also one of the most famous bits of Spider-Man comics history in the last decades. The only contenders equal to it is Spider-Man unmasking in CIVIL WAR (which was huge, and by far the biggest reason for that title's success), and Miles Morales' debut. Those are the only bits of Spider-Man comics stuff that crossed over to the civilians (Slott's "Dying Wish" has a fourth place but more because of the death threats than the story itself).

So the story about undoing OMD isn't going to be simply about continuity and so on. It never really was about that. This story is of "public interest" as they say, which means that dealing with it is a matter of grappling with the emotions people have tied to this, and not simple Marvel/lore stuff. That can be tackled later down the line. So the question Marvel and others want is "what would people respond to emotionally over this".

Ultimately what matters is if Marvel want Peter and MJ to get married again. If they want that, then you can do the best and most satisfying version of this story. The only other satisfying story is that Spider-Man has to fight Mephisto and score a win over him, and they have to make it clear that Spider-Man scored a legit triumph. None of that "when Spider-Man wins Peter loses" crap. A total unambiguous win over Mephisto. What kind of fight or what kind of win that we can leave for later but you have to make it so that Peter has a full soul, all his memories, will not face any consequences (i.e. Charlie Collins versus Joker in BTAS) and after that he's a free man, there's nothing stopping him from marrying MJ again or no thumbs on the scale, and Spider-Man writers get to refer to stories in the married era as married Spider-Man stories and not "living together" gaslighting.

Tom Brevoort once said that Marvel were unlikely to consider having Spider-Man regain his memories because the minute that happens they can't have Peter and MJ not be married and impossible to make Spider-Man as romantically undetermined so for me having Peter regain his memories and the marriage back in continuity would make it virtually impossible to make them single later on...barring a full continuity reboot.

[evolutionaryFan]

I mean, back when One More Day happens, they show us how the Wedding never happened; but besides that, it would appear as if the story of the 20 years of Spider-Marriage stayed the same. That was a complete nonsense, as without Mary Jane in scene, many past adventures of Spider-Man would have been differents. The only changes brought by OMD were:
+ Everyone forgot about Peter Parker's identity as Spider-Man, except Mary Jane and the Jackal.
+ Harry Osborn was mysteriously resurrected.
+ Peter lost the powers of The Other and returned to the mechanical webshooters.

So why change just these 3 things?

Also what about those events that could not have happened unless Peter and MJ were married (and not just together)... there have to be a few. What exactly changes in the timeline with these types of events?

I'm still unclear what precise changes OMD did. It all seems way too flexible and loose.

EDIT: As an example of an event that had to change... when Black Cat found out that Peter was married, she went nuts and attacked MJ, then started dating Flash. What happens to all this post-OMD?

[PCN24454]

EDIT: As an example of an event that had to change... when Black Cat found out that Peter was married, she went nuts and attacked MJ, then started dating Flash. What happens to all this post-OMD?

I wouldn't be surprised if the writers forgot it happened.

Otherwise, it's possible that she chose to date Flash anyways to spite Peter.