Being to powerful is actually detrimental to a heroes storytelling potential.

[SecretWarrior]

Daly's Superman wasn't depowered and Welling's version once shoved an entire planet from Earth's orbit.

You think Daly's Superman is anywhere near the comicbook version, moving so fast people can't see, moving planets, etc.?

Smallville was most popular from Seasons 1-4, where Clark never pushed planets or had worldbreaking power. On those seasons, he didn't even fly and would get challenged by the Spider-man level villain of the week.

No reason for Superman or others in his League for being more powerful than Ultimate Thor or Iron Man. His personality is what makes him interesting and likable. MCU Captain America isn't even mid-tier in the films, and he's wildly popular.

[SecretWarrior]

Does J Review's nearly 2 hour video have any evidence of what you said about critics? Because otherwise, one guy's opinion doesn't represent all critics.

Your rationale for why STAS wasn't as popular as BTAS just doesn't wash. Let's not act like saturday morning cartoons weren't popular back in the day. And even Justice League/JLU, a show that didn't even get the benefit of being on network TV like STAS, tends to get more love than STAS does.

Tim Daly and Tom Welling prove that depowered Superman doesn't automatically make the character more popular. Again, the character has been in the same spot for 30 or so years now, and neither STAS or Smallville changed that situation.

By what measure is JLU more acclaimed than STAS? JLU had a larger more diverse cast, so of course it could cast a wider net fanbase wise (not viwership wise). It's like the Avengers being more popular than any individual Avenger. STAS remains critically acclaimed and hold up well over time, unlike the Reeves films, which have a track record of 1.5 good movies out of four.

[Agent Z]

You htink Daly's Superman is anywhere near the comicbook version, moving so fas people can't see, moving planets, etc.?

Which comic version? Superman's power level isn't exactly consistent and what Daly's version did was in line with the original post crisis comics. He also did the "moving so fast people can't see him" trick in Superman: TAS.

Smallville was most popular from Seasons 1-4, where Clark never pushed planets or had worldbreaking power. On those seasons, he didn't even fly and would get challenged by the Spider-man level villain of the week.

Correlation does not equal causation. Clark didn't reach world-mover status until the final episode of the last season. Lack of flight and being challenged by Spider-Man level enemies occurred from season one to most of season ten.

[SecretWarrior]

Which comic version? Superman's power level isn't exactly consistent and what Daly's version did was in line with the original post crisis comics. He also did the "moving so fast people can't see him" trick in Superman: TAS.

John Byrne's Superman was closer to Ultimate Thor than Silver Age and All-Star Superman. Best comic book interpretation of the character, which is why it influenced so much Superman media.

Correlation does not equal causation. Clark didn't reach world-mover status until the final episode of the last season. Lack of flight and being challeneged by Spider-Man level enemies occurred from season one to most of season ten.

Exactly, he didn't need to move planets to keep the show interesting for 9-10 seasons. Plaet moving came at the very end, after the sow had jumped the shark.

[Ra-El]

You think Daly's Superman is anywhere near the comicbook version, moving so fast people can't see, moving planets, etc.?

Smallville was most popular from Seasons 1-4, where Clark never pushed planets or had worldbreaking power. On those seasons, he didn't even fly and would get challenged by the Spider-man level villain of the week.

No reason for Superman or others in his League for being more powerful than Ultimate Thor or Iron Man. His personality is what makes him interesting and likable. MCU Captain America isn't even mid-tier in the films, and he's wildly popular.

Smallville isn't a good example for Clark power levels. He moved so fast people couldn't see him and he was challenged by anyone because apparently half of Smallville was made of kryptonite, the water had kryptonite, the food had kryptonite, etc.

In the first season almost every episode was the same: a mutated villain was stalking Lana and killing some people; Clark investigated while crushing on Lana; the villain and Clark would fight; Clark would be more powerful and be winning; then while fighting he would stumble in some form of kryptonite and get his ass kicked; he would mope around a little bit and fight the villain again but this time he would win because no kryptonite around.
I just broke down an episode of Smallville for you.
On Smallville's Superman didn't lived on a World of Cardboard he lived in a World of Kryptonite.

[comicboy12]

My biggest problem with OP heroes in comics is that fights with them tend to be painfully dull. That's why I can give stuff like one punch man a pass. Even though I already know he's going to win at least the fights are interesting to look at.

[TheBatman]

By what measure is JLU more acclaimed than STAS?

The same measure you used to claim that "Critics" think STAS seasons 1 and 3 are more consistently excellent than BTAS.

JLU had a larger more diverse cast, so of course it could cast a wider net fanbase wise (not viwership wise).

I have a simpler explanation for why JL is more beloved than STAS: it was the better show. Better made, more iconic, and more remarkable than STAS.

STAS remains critically acclaimed and hold up well over time, unlike the Reeves films, which have a track record of 1.5 good movies out of four.

And yet, STAS never made the impact or had the level of popularity those 1.5 good Reeve films did. You can have your personal opinion or rationales all you'd like, but it is what it is.

[OopsIdiditagain]

Yeah but how often do you planet buster characters in popular stuff like Hunter x Hunter, MHA or Demon Slayer?

I see you haven't noticed the wave of webtoons with OP characters. I can't stand half of them but they're gaining a noticeable amount of popularity that can rival shonen jump mangas. It helps that most of them are action focused and the female characters are slightly better written. MHA is filled with power creeps too.

[Stick Figure]

Power level doesn’t matter at all to me. Write good character driven stories. I love Wolverine because of his personality and not because claws pop out of his fists. Superman isn’t about a guy who lifts builds to me. He’s a guy with a wife and son juggling family life with battle evil day & night. Powers are meaningless. To me, comics are just about people who have strange jobs. Lol.

[Fresin]

Siege, asuka doesnt exust until shinji is beyond accomplished as a chad and becomes a part of his harem. Aka purified and join the light of shinji chadkairi.

As for the topic. Batman looks and acts cooler thab suoerman but hes more or less a ideal like superman. Spidey is for self inserters whi want to be a superhero but with the same realistic flaws your average nerd has. Supes and others like him sadly cant be desired or relatrd because they are ultimately perfect concepts and to powerful as people when telling a atory about their lives.

[manwhohaseverything]

Suerman isn't Tarzan or the Hulk.

he is based on tarzan.Not every beast/man duality is hulk like(mr.jekyll and mr.hyde).Moreover,superman is essentially an alien.Aliens are treated as monsters.Creatures from beyond.He is humanoid like say centaur.

[Fresin]

Manga is generally not balancing different tiers like American comics.

The major Naruto characters are capable of holding their own against one another, same with DBZ, same with One Piece-- With a universe that needs to keep powerless people relevant, you can't have things like Flash evacuating an entire city in milliseconds. Honestly, with powers that great, the DCU is a hellhole to live in for NPCs, special forces, etc. One of the biggest complaints about the Snyder/Whedon Justice League film was how the whole team made Batman irrelevant.

doesnt exist

[scary harpy]

Apparently, this argument goes round and round.

So, I will ask this question: which characters usually outsell Superman? Please include Marvel characters.

I sure Batman and Spider-Man outsell Superman...but not about others. And I know someone on these boards has that information at her/his fingertips!

[achilles]

My feeling on the OP is that you can tell good or great stories about uber powerful heroes, but they have to reflect that fact, and are usually more about things like the moral choices the hero makes that the actual physical fights they have, or you can have stories where the nearly all powerful hero confronts the limits of his ability to save specific, much more fragile beings. Or other, similar problems. Otherwise you are indeed doomed to the sort of never ending even more powerful and previously un-hinted at villains that DC seems to specialize in. Or inventing new weaknesses.

[Agent Z]

he is based on tarzan.

No he isn't. Not even close.