And those ripple effects? That's where you find some Good Stories, mate.
Having working class ethos and taking direct action doesn't make anyone immature, and the reckless thing is being exaggerated. You take action and sometimes it gets messy, but that's okay. Superman is the star of ACTION COMICS. He's not a centrist paradigm, he's a boxer who keeps getting up no matter what.
Nothing in life is devoid of repercussions, yet it's still really important to do more than punch Parasite around for the umpteenth time. I'd like to see something explore all of that, even the repercussions because that is good storytelling and that's what makes a narrative interesting.
So let Superman take on the scam of luxury apartments. Let him get in oligarchal faces. Let him slam head first into racism and sexism. Inject a lil sci-fi in, and bam you have comic books or a superhero flick for 2020.
Nah, I'm talking about Michael B Jordan as Clark Kent/Superman, not President Superman. Driver and Jordan are both terrific actors with a real unique presence.I would be interested in Jordan playing President Superman....but I don't think know if right now is the time for a heroic politician. It might work in a "this is how it's supposed to be" kinda way, but the fact that Ellis lies to the public about his identity and has robots do his Presidential duties while he's off fighting Lex "I'm not racist!" Luthor seems like a dubious choice at the moment. A few years ago it would've worked great. A few years from now it might work great. Right now? It *might* work great or it might be a huge disaster.
And Adam Driver....does not look like any Superman at all to me. Good actor, but a Superman? I dunno.....maybe? We've hard worse actors do decently with the role so I'd at least entertain the notion, but he does not look the part in my opinion.
Last edited by Flash Gordon; 06-03-2020 at 12:06 PM.
Again, it's not that you can't have an older jeans n' t-shirt Superman, it's that Morrison & Rags's version was designed to be explicitly younger than Superman is normally portrayed to be.
Think about it like this, you can certainly do a middle aged Spider-Man, which Spiderverse did to great effect, but the character's themes work better when the character is a teenager/young adult.
A jeans n' t-shirt Superman in his 30s is fine, but just not as interesting to me as one who's much younger and less experienced. That version of the character is so exciting because of that youth.
This isn't to say you can't have an angry, crusading, anti-establishment Superman in his 30s, but he would be a different animal than what Morrison and Rags created.
Double post
(Sorry mods, please delete)
Last edited by Flash Gordon; 06-03-2020 at 06:02 PM.
So I finally read this the other day, and frankly I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said here - instant classic. One of the best Superman books ever. And I love Roberta/Lan-Shin Lee, great character.
As for it being animated - doubt it. It doesn't fit the current DTV lines, most fans here are, "This needs to be theatrical or bust," which will never happen - and if it did it'd be Pixar level CGI which I personally don't want, there's charm to the 2D aspect here. So yeah, I have my doubts on it. I'd rather have a DTV that isn't as well animated but still nails the art style and keeps it 2D. My real preference would be a 2D theatrical, but that'll never ever happen.
You misunderstand brother.
Yeah those ripple effects can be great. Hell Morrison's whole Action run was built off ripple effects. I don't want to get rid of those. What I'm saying is audiences are likely to expect an older Superman to think his actions through more, so you have to approach things differently.
Sticking with the example of tearing down the slums and building new housing, yeah that's awesome and I love seeing it, and seeing Clark realize that he just made those people homeless by building apartments they can't afford is a great ripple effect/character growing moment. But we'd expect a 30-35 year old Superman to know better, we'd expect him to know that he'd drive up the property value, so the moment doesn't work as well as it would with a 20-25 year old Superman who doesn't think that far ahead.
So a older working class Superman needs to do things differently. Instead of just tearing down the slums, maybe he intimidates the landlord into locking rent prices in place first, or forces a politician into backing some renters' protection policies, and *then* tears down the slums and builds nice new apartments. You can still get that pissed off, working class hero, but you gotta write him as being capable of thinking more than five minutes ahead because, as a 30+ year old man, there's no damn excuse not to (and the last thing Clark needs is audiences thinking he's a idiot). You can still get those ripple effects and unintended consequences, but they gotta be a little less obvious than "crap I built luxury apartments without realizing that Joe Average can't afford them on his mall security guard salary!" Maybe a viable ripple effect there is that, with new apartments built by the legendary Superman, wealthier people start to move into the "hot new neighborhood" and Clark has unintentionally opened the door to gentrification around town. Maybe he got renter's protections for the people in that one building, but now the whole neighborhood is turning yuppie.
They're good actors, and if they could play the role right then okay. But I don't think either of them look anything like Clark and, generally speaking, I don't like race bending; (most of the time) it's not representation, it's pandering and DC trying to have diversity without actually doing any real work for it. But a good actor in a good movie makes just about anything forgivable.Nah, I'm talking about Michael B Jordan as Clark Kent/Superman, not President Superman. Driver and Jordan are both terrific actors with a real unique presence.
"We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."
~ Black Panther.
There's also the possibility of someone like the Gambler coming up and exploiting Superman' help in building an apartment block, it doesn't even need to be luxury, the fact that Supes built it has a knock on effect of upping property value. I think a young Clark can do all of those things, make mistakes and be easily forgiven for not thinking ten steps ahead of his actions and the consequences thereof. A Superman in his 30s won't have that luxury with certain portions of the viewing public, they already have lofty expectations of him as it is. Young Superman can go hard on corruption and that's okay but older Superman has to fight smarter.
Sure, being a working class hero doesn't equate to just smashing things with his fists all the time. I never said he needed to be an idiot. He can be a smart, intelligent, capable person and still be a working class icon and hero of the people. Superman is a Kryptonian and should operate at high levels of intellect anyway, which is another reason he'd stand in solidarity.
I think the recklessness is being greatly exaggerated here, and I get if people just want the status quo Rock'm Sock'm Robots superhero stories (not saying you do, I know you and that you also enjoy good ole quality). I think we're on the same page. I don't want Superman to act like a 20 year old, I want the blue jeans and work boots wearing Springsteen Superman but he doesn't have to be rash or an idiot prick causing mass displacement through gentrification by building housing.
I think that's where I'm taking offense here. The equating of 'working class hero' with 'reckless kid'. Or that being mature, means not taking action against wealthy tyrants. Or combatting racist policies head on. I'm not talking about Morrison's run here (which adressed the ripple effects but never really explored them)- I'm talking about something that uses that aesthetic but is totally new. Morrison's run was great, but it isn't the be all and end all of that idea. There is no weird age limit on being a member of the working class.
Good stories are what people want.
Last edited by Flash Gordon; 06-04-2020 at 10:40 AM.
So I guess we're saying the same thing but not understanding each other. lol
Wow. I dunno man, I've been arguing current events and politics so much lately I must not be able to recognize it when people agree with me anymore.
Should've known better; you and I agree far more often than not.
And I hope you, and everyone else here, is keeping cool and staying safe.
"We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."
~ Black Panther.
Last edited by Flash Gordon; 06-04-2020 at 07:09 PM.
Figured we were due some good news:
Source: https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...novels-q2-2020
Superman Smashes The Klan was in the top 5 of units sold and top 10 of dollars invoiced. So happy for Yang now give the man a Black Label Superman book (assuming Black Label will even survive the purge happening right now).
Last edited by Vordan; 08-10-2020 at 05:11 PM.
It’s just the prestige standalone label for DC nowadays. They slapped BL on All-Star Superman which is not an “adult” book at all. I just would like more standalone books from Yang, whatever form that might take. They just fired the guy directing the YA line, so who the hell knows if BL or YA DC books will even be coming.
Last edited by Vordan; 08-10-2020 at 08:00 PM.