"CHAOS Magic Woman!" Scarlet Witch/Wanda Maximoff Appreciation 2022

[Lucky99]

Unfortunately I think the Xavier part was showing that the "good" Wanda was being controlled by our own evil Wanda.

It does seem like the Darkhold was controlling her because she snapped out of it and went right back to being the character we know, but that really came out of nowhere and the movie really kind of went back and forth on how much of this was her own choice, since all they said is the Darkhold "corrupts," with no rules or logic about how it corrupts or what people are responsible for under its influence.

They didn't care to make her motivations make sense and just used the Darkhold as an all-purpose excuse for her total change in personality and motivations.

Evil? I saw it as the book influenced and amped up her desires and impulses. Yeah she took it VERY FAR but when push came to shove, she still allowed it all to end.

[MaximoffTrash]

What's the issue? During her show, the fans had House of M trending every week. And Elizabeth Olsen is obsessed with interacting with her X family too. She just whopped the **** out of the Avengers...let's keep the fun going. In the end, she still did the right thing. We all knew she would.

The difference is one had a competent writer, while the other did not.

[Lucky99]

The heroic at the end just retraced WV when she let everyone go. She sacrifices herself. She doesn't really face what she did and try to correct it. Now don't get me wrong, no part of me believes she's actually dead or anything. So I do think they'll have redemption. But there was nothing that forwarded her from WV. She basically goes through a meltdown again, now with the Darkhold making it worse. It doesn't matter if it was the Darkhold. That gives her no agency. And it doesn't really do anything new with her character. I'm not wowed by power wank. For me, once Wanda got reality warping, her characterization went into the toilet.

I don't get why she has to answer for stuff...no one can really make her answer for what she did..it can be a situation where Kang or Doom have them dead to rights and she bails them out. There are a few avenues to play to where her actions can make it up but the trial and things like that? Just not realistic. Next phase she's gonna have to deal with her not being with her kids and her attitude in that phase is where we see how her gray area character resonates.

[gurkle]

She has to answer for stuff because the character we know would never hurt people willingly, and if she doesn't actually bother to learn to stop hurting people, then she's not worth following because she's not the character we know.

The end of WandaVision showed her studying her powers so she would stop unintentionally hurting people. The next team ignored that and made her hurt people again. Someone had better let her stop hurting people, just for variety.

[Lucky99]

She has to answer for stuff because the character we know would never hurt people willingly, and if she doesn't actually bother to learn to stop hurting people, then she's not worth following because she's not the character we know.

The end of WandaVision showed her studying her powers so she would stop unintentionally hurting people. The next team ignored that and made her hurt people again. Someone had better let her stop hurting people, just for variety.

No, no, no..we can't say that. Wandavision painted a different picture. She controlled others to try again. She knew it was wrong. Stopped it. But she definitely chose to continue going after the kids. That's enough right there. Trials and having to bow down to make it right. That's a road no one needs to see.

[Gnostic]

It wasn't completely about that. They had to search and find her first. And the Avengers were not there to arrest her. They sided with her while the X-Men wanted to arrest her and have her pay for her crimes. HoM was when the X-Men wanted to kill her. And initially Cyke had a line in TCC to burn the witch, but that was later edited out. They were gonna take her and have her stand trial for her crimes. But the Avengers felt she would not get a fair trial.

And they could choose to put that in movies. But it might also be very boring. They didn't even do that with Bucky, and he had a huge trial in comics.

Wolverine definitely wanted to kill Wanda (and Wiccan). Cyclops did threaten to kill Wanda and took a shot at her. At least in the version I read.

And what do you mean about again? They didn't flesh out any of the stuff with Chthon.

The person I was replying to said:

Why should they waste her own iconic villain in an ensemble movie again, it's her personal story.

Maybe, but it feels like something they would do in a What If. Probably due to the constant rewrites, the alternate universe Wanda had no personality and only one major line of dialogue, and her Billy and Tommy had no personalities either. Not much to build on.

The rumors about a Children's Crusade adaptation in the MCU suggest it would be something like Young Avengers, where Wanda has disappeared after committing a horrible crime that has the entire superhero community against her. And it's with the main universe that they've been setting up Young Avengers, as well as Wanda's crime.

The fact that America Chavez only knows her as a cackling supervillain trying to kill her is in some ways a good setup, similar to the original Young Avengers where she killed Cassie's father, but more personal (Cassie wanted to search for Wanda so she could bring her dad back to life, as she ended up doing; America would probably side with the adults who just don't want to find her at all).

There was a rumor back in 2020 about a Children's Crusade adaptation being the first arc of a Young Avengers show. Weren't the Young Avengers assembled by a Kang variant (Iron Lad)? If so, the Young Avengers members introduced in the 616 can easily travel to the 838.

[GenericUsername]

I don't get why she has to answer for stuff...no one can really make her answer for what she did..it can be a situation where Kang or Doom have them dead to rights and she bails them out. There are a few avenues to play to where her actions can make it up but the trial and things like that? Just not realistic. Next phase she's gonna have to deal with her not being with her kids and her attitude in that phase is where we see how her gray area character resonates.

Because it's story conclusion. Most stories have a beginning, middle and end. And it's not about others wanting her to answer for stuff. It should be about her wanting to set things right. Because in her natural state would be devastated about what she did. Her bailing out Kang or Doom isn't really setting things right. She could help stop the incursions with the other characters. But maybe stopping Chthon could help that since the Darkhold was linked to that. And Chthon's power signature is still there. I'd love for her to come to a conclusion about her kids, like Roy Thomas wrote for her many moons ago.

[gurkle]

No, no, no..we can't say that. Wandavision painted a different picture. She controlled others to try again. She knew it was wrong. Stopped it. But she definitely chose to continue going after the kids. That's enough right there. Trials and having to bow down to make it right. That's a road no one needs to see.

This thread always resolves to this, but: bad writing doesn't count to how I feel about a character.

When Wanda realized she was hurting people, she sacrificed her children and her husband to set the town free. Then she went off to study the only known source of information on how to control her powers, and while she was doing it, she heard her children calling for help.

Then the next creative team ignores all of this and has her willingly hurting people to get copies of the kids she willingly gave up. Then for no real reason she stops. The excuse is "evil book made her evil" but it's just a dumb excuse to have her go through the exact same arc she just went through, only more violently.

Since the movie ignored everything about the show, even the fact that she thought her kids needed rescuing, the next project should ignore the movie as much as possible and actually move her character forward, instead of going through the same story.

There was a rumor back in 2020 about a Children's Crusade adaptation being the first arc of a Young Avengers show. Weren't the Young Avengers assembled by a Kang variant (Iron Lad)? If so, the Young Avengers members introduced in the 616 can easily travel to the 838.

Sure, but why? The Wanda of that universe is alive and happy with her kids. Maybe she'll get into some trouble for killing some people while possessed, but all the interesting stuff is in the main universe, where the main Wanda has actually committed crimes and has actual enemies and has actually gone missing. That's the setup for Children's Crusade; Wanda living happily with her children is not.

[GenericUsername]

Wolverine definitely wanted to kill Wanda (and Wiccan). Cyclops did threaten to kill Wanda and took a shot at her. At least in the version I read.

Wolverine did, but he is not the X-Men. And yeah I posted that they edited out the part of Cyke saying burn the witch in later printings.

[MaximoffTrash]

Evil? I saw it as the book influenced and amped up her desires and impulses. Yeah she took it VERY FAR but when push came to shove, she still allowed it all to end.

She is evil or just straight up stupid, or amesiac lol.

[MaximoffTrash]

This thread always resolves to this, but: bad writing doesn't count to how I feel about a character.

When Wanda realized she was hurting people, she sacrificed her children and her husband to set the town free. Then she went off to study the only known source of information on how to control her powers, and while she was doing it, she heard her children calling for help.

Then the next creative team ignores all of this and has her willingly hurting people to get copies of the kids she willingly gave up. Then for no real reason she stops. The excuse is "evil book made her evil" but it's just a dumb excuse to have her go through the exact same arc she just went through, only more violently.

Since the movie ignored everything about the show, even the fact that she thought her kids needed rescuing, the next project should ignore the movie as much as possible and actually move her character forward, instead of going through the same story.



Sure, but why? The Wanda of that universe is alive and happy with her kids. Maybe she'll get into some trouble for killing some people while possessed, but all the interesting stuff is in the main universe, where the main Wanda has actually committed crimes and has actual enemies and has actually gone missing. That's the setup for Children's Crusade; Wanda living happily with her children is not.

Agreed, those who ignore others' works should not be respected in terms of continuity themselves. Especially when considering their abysmal writing.

That being said, I still want my mockery sequel where a failed screenwriter is the villain.

[gurkle]

She is evil or just straight up stupid, or amesiac lol.

One reason WandaVision was a good premise is that superhero movies really are like sitcoms. Continuity is basically fake, characters are whatever they need to be for the plot, and they're constantly learning lessons and then doing the exact same thing all over again.

Wanda is like Homer Simpson, learning a lesson at the end of one episode and forgetting everything and learning the exact same lesson in the next episode.

[Gnostic]

Sure, but why? The Wanda of that universe is alive and happy with her kids. Maybe she'll get into some trouble for killing some people while possessed, but all the interesting stuff is in the main universe, where the main Wanda has actually committed crimes and has actual enemies and has actually gone missing. That's the setup for Children's Crusade; Wanda living happily with her children is not.

I just doubt the Hex versions of Billy and Tommy are coming back and the 838 versions wouldn't care about the 616 Wanda. I can see 616 Wanda trying to help them and clean up the mess she made.

[gurkle]

I just doubt the Hex versions of Billy and Tommy are coming back and the 838 versions wouldn't care about the 616 Wanda.

Oh, I think they'll be back. It's true this movie dismissed them as not real, but that contradicts WandaVision, and it also fits with the comics, where everyone in "Avengers Disassembled" assumed the kids weren't real but they actually had been reincarnated.

I just think it's more plausible that we'll see "our" Billy and Tommy again and looking for mainstream Wanda, than that another team will do anything with the other Wanda and her kids. She's fine, they're fine, and nobody cares about them because they have no personalities or dialogue. They'll just stay where they are while the Young Avengers look for the Scarlet Witch.

[GenericUsername]

I wonder if the next Billy and Tommy that we see will already be teenagers.