Jean Grey: Phoenix/Marvel Girl Appreciation 2020

[andreikes]

I imagine that soul and DNA must have the same meaning. Now with the resurrection thing in Krakoa there must be no more soul

[Havok83]

I imagine that soul and DNA must have the same meaning. Now with the resurrection thing in Krakoa there must be no more soul

Not really. We just saw a bunch of Maraurder clones in Hellions. They all have the DNA, but I wouldnt say they all had a soul

[MechaJeanix]

I liked JDW's answer. Sure, he didn't tell us anything new but it is a fun discussion to debate how we think the vote may have went.

Also, once again he shows he understood what happened in Inferno regarding both Phoenix and Maddie. Yes he got one little aspect off - Sinister as far as I know didn't trap the part of Jean's consciousness/soul that was in Phoenix in Maddie.. that part went to Maddie itself after Jean rejected it from the bay.

Personally I like that he acknowledges a part of Jean was in the Phoenix merger and that part went to Maddie and later was absorbed into Jean. It is confusing though but often part this important part is left out.

As far as souls … for me the soul will always be what is stored in our brains so when Xavier copies a mind/consciousness/memories it includes the soul because those things make up what we call a "soul". I know this gets a bit controversial but this is the way it is. Everything that makes us who we are is what is stored in our brains (our personality, thoughts, memories). The soul is an abstract social-religious construct. I know in the Marvel Universe it is a thing but I see it as being a thing there just like it is here in the real world (ie it is our brains or more specifically the information we store there). I think Hickman gets this but since a soul is a thing in the MU we can just assume it follows someone upon resurrection for those that must have that explanation.

[The Thunderbird]

I liked JDW's answer. Sure, he didn't tell us anything new but it is a fun discussion to debate how we think the vote may have went.

Also, once again he shows he understood what happened in Inferno regarding both Phoenix and Maddie. Yes he got one little aspect off - Sinister as far as I know didn't trap the part of Jean's consciousness/soul that was in Phoenix in Maddie.. that part went to Maddie itself after Jean rejected it from the bay.

Personally I like that he acknowledges a part of Jean was in the Phoenix merger and that part went to Maddie and later was absorbed into Jean. It is confusing though but often part this important part is left out.

As far as souls … for me the soul will always be what is stored in our brains so when Xavier copies a mind/consciousness/memories it includes the soul because those things make up what we call a "soul". I know this gets a bit controversial but this is the way it is. Everything that makes us who we are is what is stored in our brains (our personality, thoughts, memories). The soul is an abstract social-religious construct. I know in the Marvel Universe it is a thing but I see it as being a thing there just like it is here in the real world (ie it is our brains or more specifically the information we store there). I think Hickman gets this but since a soul is a thing in the MU we can just assume it follows someone upon resurrection for those that must have that explanation.

I wonder why the writers went with the route that Maddie was brought to life by Jean's soul. Sounds kind of redundant if you ask me.

As for souls and Krakoan resurrection I imagine that Cerebro works kind of like a Horcrux from the Harry Potter series where it keeps a portion of the mutant's soul inside. I could be wrong though.

[Havok83]

I wonder why the writers went with the route that Maddie was brought to life by Jean's soul. Sounds kind of redundant if you ask me.

As for souls and Krakoan resurrection I imagine that Cerebro works kind of like a Horcrux from the Harry Potter series where it keeps a portion of the mutant's soul inside. I could be wrong though.

That was the point. Maddie was a piece of Jean so when she died, the two merged when Jean's soul was returned to her

[andreikes]

from reddit
o.o
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I imagine it’s not Jean, but I might as well

[Devaishwarya]

Wolverine facing off against War

[Micabe]

Wolverine facing off against War

Yep! Wolverine Faces an X of Swords Villain in Marauders #15 Variant.

[GMikey]

If you all had the opportunity to give Jean Grey the story and development you feel she deserves, what would it entail?

What do you like/love about the character?

Have you seen what you wanted represented well, in any media?

What do you NOT like/love about the character?

If there's a complaint about the character, or her development in Marvel media, what would it be?

If you could enhance Jean Grey in some way, what would that be, and or entail? (doesn't have to be power wise, just character dev, narrative, etc)

If you could have one wish granted, that insane fanboy/fangirl carte blanche done with Jean's character that you'd love so much, what would it be?

[Havok83]

1. X-men Red was the right direction in terms of development for Jean. It doesnt fit in the current era but Jean as the face for mutantkind and leader of the X-men was the obvious progression for her character

2. I love her passion and warmth. She truly is the heart of the X-men and they are so much better with her around

3. No. X-Men Evolution and end of WATX was good but overall Jean doesnt get her fair due.

4. Not much. Jean's my favorite character. Anything I dislike has more to do with the writing than her actual character.

5. She's portrayed as much weaker than she should be and when they do have her powerful, she's often crazy and not in control

6. Give her, the pink power form her teen counterpart had

7. Restore her family. The decision to massacre was shortsighted and I dont think the long term ramifications of that were thought. Jean was one of the characters that actually had a recurring supporting cast and Marvel got rid of them all. There was story to mine from her sister, niece and nephew as well as expand the family as need be. This is an aspect of Jean that they wrote her into a corner

[PowerPlay25]

Totally late on this but just read that had Avengers EMH gotten a Season 3, Christopher Yost envisioned a storyline where Jean Grey would have played a large role

That was my favorite Marvel Cartoon and knowing that Jean would have been a part of it, mixing it up with the Avengers makes me even more angry that Marvel cancelled it. Anyone who watched the show knows that the writing was very strong and pretty much every character was given dimension. They probably would have done awesome work with Jean.

Christopher Yost said he envisioned the X-Men as Professor X, Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Storm, Shadowcat, Rogue and Colossus. Interesting line up.

Oh what could have been.

[Peanutsinspace]

Totally late on this but just read that had Avengers EMH gotten a Season 3, Christopher Yost envisioned a storyline where Jean Grey would have played a large role

That was my favorite Marvel Cartoon and knowing that Jean would have been a part of it, mixing it up with the Avengers makes me even more angry that Marvel cancelled it. Anyone who watched the show knows that the writing was very strong and pretty much every character was given dimension. They probably would have done awesome work with Jean.

Christopher Yost said he envisioned the X-Men as Professor X, Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Storm, Shadowcat, Rogue and Colossus. Interesting line up.

Oh what could have been.

Yes that's right. Thomas Perkins, who was the character design supervisor for AEMH posted some concept art awhile back, here's one of them (only one that features Jean)

[GMikey]

1. X-men Red was the right direction in terms of development for Jean. It doesnt fit in the current era but Jean as the face for mutantkind and leader of the X-men was the obvious progression for her character

2. I love her passion and warmth. She truly is the heart of the X-men and they are so much better with her around

3. No. X-Men Evolution and end of WATX was good but overall Jean doesnt get her fair due.

4. Not much. Jean's my favorite character. Anything I dislike has more to do with the writing than her actual character.

5. She's portrayed as much weaker than she should be and when they do have her powerful, she's often crazy and not in control

6. Give her, the pink power form her teen counterpart had

7. Restore her family. The decision to massacre was shortsighted and I dont think the long term ramifications of that were thought. Jean was one of the characters that actually had a recurring supporting cast and Marvel got rid of them all. There was story to mine from her sister, niece and nephew as well as expand the family as need be. This is an aspect of Jean that they wrote her into a corner

Thanks for your answers! I'm asking preliminary questions in behalf of a massive, Marvel fan collab, creating an animated/fanime series, based on our favorite Marvel heroes. Our writers' team is right now working on base plots so fans can ride with that, in creating episodes to animate! The story starts them off as kids (long story why), but a time skip has them to grow up, and moving forward, they remain as adults. I actually have a thread dedicated to this project (though it hasn't been fully announced) Let me comment on your answers:

1. Well, one of the things changed about her character IS the fact, she remains with the X-Men past "The Phoenix Trilogy". After that aftermath, (I will reveal minor spoilers) with the death of a few X-Men, and others so divided they leave the team, Jean Grey picks up the pieces and becomes the new leader, alongside Scott Summers. The next arc takes a dark turn, but Jean showcases her leadership, and evolution of her own powers, minus the Phoenix.

2-3. Yeah I can appreciate that. Its a lot of reworking of her character being done, one of which is removing the drama between her and Scott, so we'd see them as a solid couple for once. And as I've already mentioned her leadership, and her drive to utilize her powers to aid the plight of mutants, is meant to be a highlight for her character development.

4. Cool! There have been a number of complaints that fans have given us, and its lead to a number of well structured changes. I like that the chief is writing her to be way more human, and relatable. She also want to build Jean Grey to be more solid as her own character, beyond being Phoenix. Her development as Phoenix has changed, definitely for the better. It gives much better reason and credence why they share the bond they do.

5. That's way balanced out. The chief writer is definitely bringing her abilities to the forefront. Going back to the Phoenix, the chief writer created an excellent means of differentiating Jean's powers from Phoenix's, and not making the Phoenix overly clingy. They do unite again in the third act of the "Phoenix Trilogy" to combat an omniversal threat. But after these events, Jean returns to the X-Men, rebuilds the team, and uses the knowledge she's gained to move forward. Just from discussion alone, this is probably the best I've seen Jean Grey in animation... which is sad that, I like a fan work better than the canon. But that's why I'm here, to collect as much info as possible.

6. From some test animated clips, the animator is making her psionics manifest the pink energy.

7. She does not lose her family in this, so that's not even a discussion. Rogue is the one who does suffer a lot of tragedy and loss, which leads into the darker arcs in the future. As stated before, much of the drama Jean Grey and Scott Summers had in canon, won't be present here, allowing them to develop together for a change.

You should join the conversation, and discuss what you'd want for Jean's character

[WallStreeter]

1. X-men Red was the right direction in terms of development for Jean. It doesnt fit in the current era but Jean as the face for mutantkind and leader of the X-men was the obvious progression for her character

2. I love her passion and warmth. She truly is the heart of the X-men and they are so much better with her around

3. No. X-Men Evolution and end of WATX was good but overall Jean doesnt get her fair due.

4. Not much. Jean's my favorite character. Anything I dislike has more to do with the writing than her actual character.

5. She's portrayed as much weaker than she should be and when they do have her powerful, she's often crazy and not in control

6. Give her, the pink power form her teen counterpart had

7. Restore her family. The decision to massacre was shortsighted and I dont think the long term ramifications of that were thought. Jean was one of the characters that actually had a recurring supporting cast and Marvel got rid of them all. There was story to mine from her sister, niece and nephew as well as expand the family as need be. This is an aspect of Jean that they wrote her into a corner

Her family isn’t coming back as dead humans are useless. Her niece and nephew were said to be mutants in XFactor. If they get brought back that would leave Jean the mother to four kids! Give the woman a break! She has a husband and two children.

She has family in the form of her husband, her children, her lover Wolverine, and close friends like Polaris, Nightcrawler, Storm and even frenemy Emma.

She uses the pink power in X-Force.

[Havok83]

Her family isn’t coming back as dead humans are useless. Her niece and nephew were said to be mutants in XFactor. If they get brought back that would leave Jean the mother to four kids! Give the woman a break! She has a husband and two children.

She has family in the form of her husband, her children, her lover Wolverine, and close friends like Polaris, Nightcrawler, Storm and even frenemy Emma.

She uses the pink power in X-Force.

If you could have one wish granted, that insane fanboy/fangirl carte blanche done with Jean's character that you'd love so much, what would it be?

What I wrote was my fanboy wish, which implies I know its not going to happen. The X-men are her defacto family and not the same thing as her original family whom were specific supporting characters for her. There are stories and character development that can be done with Jean that you cant substitute the X-men with which is why I feel this is one area where they've written Jean into a corner.t None of the X-men are supporting characters for Jean bc they are leads in their own right

And can you stop spouting that misinformation about her X-Force usage? She's never used the pink power that the teen version had in this current era