Zack Snyder's JUSTICE LEAGUE on HBOmax in 2021!

[Jokerz79]

Man, most people who watch superhero films really don't know anything about cinema.

>>> Billion dollars is an arbitrary standard
>>> Snyder's MoS and BvS made money. The only project that didn't was JL, in which his version was shelved
>>> Also, the MCU didn't make a billion dollar film until Avengers 1, their 6th film. Aquaman is the sixth DCEU film.

The only philosophy Zach Snyder has openly spoken about in regards to the DCEU is auteur projects, where directors and writers are given creative freedom. Patty Jenkin's Wonder Woman and James Wan's Aquaman are both examples of this, as he served as a producer for both films.

When Comparing to of DC films Nolan fits but if you're going for actual influence than for Joker it's Martin Scorsese he was once attached and the film was heavily influenced by Taxi Driver and King of Comedy where Snyder is more in the range of Michael Bay with better visuals.

Money isn't arbitrary it, awards, and critic response are the only objective way to measure films everything else is subjective.
MoS and BvS made money but not close to what WB wanted them too.
The MCU also made a Billion with their 7th film Iron Man 3 what did the DCEU's 7th film Shazam make? & and I like Shazam it's my favorite DCEu film but trying to equate the early MCU to the DCEU is an false narrative. The MCU weren't making record breakers and had problems behind the scenes with Phase 1 but nothing close to the DCEU's issues most of which were created by WB Executives meddling.

There are very few comic book films that can be considered "Auteur" projects especially ones connected to larger cinematic universe or made to be franchises. They are IP's owned by major corporations meant to create films that will make tons of money and spring board into franchises. They can be entertaining and have thought provoking messages but they are no where near "Auteur" Projects except to try to some how to make them sound classier.

[Castle]

When Comparing to of DC films Nolan fits but if you're going for actual influence than for Joker it's Martin Scorsese he was once attached and the film was heavily influenced by Taxi Driver and King of Comedy where Snyder is more in the range of Michael Bay with better visuals.

Snyder is closer to Jerry Bruckheimer than Michael Bay.

Money isn't arbitrary it, awards, and critic response are the only objective way to measure films everything else is subjective.

Awards and critics response are not objective, In many instances awards have shown they can be bought, underserved or politically motivated. Critics many times play favourites or don't know what they are talking about. Some fans have turned out to be better critical judge than critics. Many critics have ignored important factors to praise a movie for something that is meaningless to the quality of the film.

There is no film school in any universe that will tell you , A movie's objective results are about awards and critics response. When last did we see critics praising the writing or acting in any comic movie? critics just want them to be fun, especially the MCU films. Most DC films never had this narrative until WB showed lack of judgement.

[Gotham citizen]

[…]
Awards and critics response are not objective, In many instances awards have shown they can be bought, underserved or politically motivated. Critics many times play favourites or don't know what they are talking about. Some fans have turned out to be better critical judge than critics. Many critics have ignored important factors to praise a movie for something that is meaningless to the quality of the film.
[…]

I can confirm that: a friend of mine was a movie critic.

[Pinsir]

When Comparing to of DC films Nolan fits but if you're going for actual influence than for Joker it's Martin Scorsese he was once attached and the film was heavily influenced by Taxi Driver and King of Comedy where Snyder is more in the range of Michael Bay with better visuals.

Nolan's notable work is mostly blockbuster, genre films though, and I doubt the poster I was replying too made that statement to comparing Joker to Dunkirk. Joker wears its influences on its shoulder and the Dark Knight isn't one of them, particularly in regards to the films realism. The Dark Knight is a realistic film when compared to other superhero films, but its not compared too other non-genre films. Also, sure Nolan had his name attached to the project, but I'm pretty Snyder's name is attached to Aquaman too.

Money isn't arbitrary it, awards, and critic response are the only objective way to measure films everything else is subjective.

Saying film franchise was failing/doing poorly because it didn't make a billion dollars is purely arbitrary. It's also just wrong, you can have a film franchise that never make a billion and still be hugely successful.

Also, if you are implying that money, awards and critic responses are an objective means to measure the quality of a film then no, they aren't. You can't strong arm me into accepting a film is good because it has 1 or all of these qualities.

MoS and BvS made money but not close to what WB wanted them too.

You going to cite a source for this or are you going just by the feeling that, "Well, he's Superman, so he each film he makes should be a billion dollar grossing film!" Also, studios want every film to gross more than they did.

The MCU also made a Billion with their 7th film Iron Man 3 what did the DCEU's 7th film Shazam make? & and I like Shazam it's my favorite DCEu film but trying to equate the early MCU to the DCEU is an false narrative. The MCU weren't making record breakers and had problems behind the scenes with Phase 1 but nothing close to the DCEU's issues most of which were created by WB Executives meddling.

Basically you're saying, "You're right, I can't have that."

There are very few comic book films that can be considered "Auteur" projects especially ones connected to larger cinematic universe or made to be franchises. They are IP's owned by major corporations meant to create films that will make tons of money and spring board into franchises. They can be entertaining and have thought provoking messages but they are no where near "Auteur" Projects except to try to some how to make them sound classier

.

The statement I replied too said Aquaman didn't represent Zach Snyder's philosophy, when it actually does. Also, some of the more recent MCU are also clearly auteur films, James Gunn's GotG is an obvious example.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Man, most people who watch superhero films really don't know anything about cinema.

Joker was much closer to Nolan's aesthetic than Snyder's.

>>> Billion dollars is an arbitrary standard
>>> Snyder's MoS and BvS made money. The only project that didn't was JL, in which his version was shelved
>>> Also, the MCU didn't make a billion dollar film until Avengers 1, their 6th film. Aquaman is the sixth DCEU film.

Billion dollars is a standard Aquaman lived up to, and Snyder's films didn't. That's an achievement to be proud of, made possible by James Wan. They made money but not MCU money, unlike Aquaman. And yet they still made that money under Fiege and not under Snyder.

The only philosophy Zach Snyder has openly spoken about in regards to the DCEU is auteur projects, where directors and writers are given creative freedom. Patty Jenkin's Wonder Woman and James Wan's Aquaman are both examples of this, as he served as a producer for both films.

Snyder's philosophy about film is making cool scenes, brutal violence, having anti-heroes for protagonists who like killing and less emphasise on the story to focus on visuals. Snyder being their producer proves nothing, what did he actually do on those films? AS far as I know he helped the story on Wonder Woman but that was Jenkins' project and he has less to do with Aquaman. Aquaman was made in a period after Snyder's influence was at its height, that's why Arthur had a story arc about killing someone and being regretful and Snyder's doesn't. At no point does Superman killing people bought up as a story arc in films, all we see his is him crying after killing Zod then he kills hostage takers without breaking a sweat.

[Pinsir]

Billion dollars is a standard Aquaman lived up to, and Snyder's films didn't. That's an achievement to be proud of, made possible by James Wan. They made money but not MCU money, unlike Aquaman. And yet they still made that money under Fiege and not under Snyder.

This is just a meaningless statement, Aquaman made more money than the vast majority of MCU films, including the MCU films that it closest too during its theatre release (Ragnorok, Captain Marvel) Most MCU films don't make a billion dollars either. Also Aquaman was made when Zach Snyder was a producer. You do know these projects take years, right?

Snyder's philosophy about film is making cool scenes, brutal violence, having anti-heroes for protagonists who like killing and less emphasise on the story to focus on visuals. Snyder being their producer proves nothing, what did he actually do on those films? AS far as I know he helped the story on Wonder Woman but that was Jenkins' project and he has less to do with Aquaman. Aquaman was made in a period after Snyder's influence was at its height, that's why Arthur had a story arc about killing someone and being regretful and Snyder's doesn't. At no point does Superman killing people bought up as a story arc in films, all we see his is him crying after killing Zod then he kills hostage takers without breaking a sweat.

This just isn't true, if anything a major problem with BvS is that it is way too overstuffed with subplots. I mean its clear that you yourself are unawares to the subplot where Lex Luthor framed Superman for murdering those hostage takers. Also Snyder being a producer for WW and Aquaman (and SS) and those projects not strongly reflecting his own aesthetic is a manifestation of his philosophy. He didn't want the DCEU to have a top down aesthetic like the MCU.

[Steel Inquisitor]

This is just a meaningless statement, Aquaman made more money than the vast majority of MCU films, including the MCU films that it closest too during its theatre release (Ragnorok, Captain Marvel) Most MCU films don't make a billion dollars either. Also Aquaman was made when Zach Snyder was a producer. You do know these projects take years, right?

Those MCU films were made under Fiege's authority, and they have a stronger track record than Snyder did. Many MCU films made that kind of money, but none did when Snyder directed them. Aquaman was something more like the MCU wold produce than Snyder. Aquaman was made when Snyder was on the way out, he wasn't its director. Him being a producer means nothing, what did he actually do with the production? Of course.

This just isn't true, if anything a major problem with BvS is that it is way too overstuffed with subplots. I mean its clear that you yourself are unawares to the subplot where Lex Luthor framed Superman for murdering those hostage takers. Also Snyder being a producer for WW and Aquaman (and SS) and those projects not strongly reflecting his own aesthetic is a manifestation of his philosophy. He didn't want the DCEU to have a top down aesthetic like the MCU.

His subplots were a poorly written, confusing mess. Snyder's like Michael Bay, he excels at making things explode and action sequences not storytelling. Of course I'm aware of that, I watched the movie - what does that have to do with the scene where Superman kills a man by slamming him into two walls? Superman did that under his own volition. His aesthetic was all over those films, aside from Aquaman. Snyder wasn't completely powerless in the DCEU, he was the face of the franchise for a big period and wasn't an expendable cog like Ayer was. They didn't kick Snyder out of the editing room on any of his movies.

Snyder was involved in writing Wonder Woman's plot.

[Castle]

Those MCU films were made under Fiege's authority, and they have a stronger track record than Snyder did. .

Snyder had a strong distinctive movie record before the DCEU. It could be controversial but it was what defined him as a director. His movies from 300 and Watchmen have all been a lot more influential than the MCU Fiege movies that are rarely attributed to as movies in the industry. Snyder is a real director to say the least, even with his flaws. Fiege isn't.

Aquaman was something more like the MCU wold produce than Snyder. Aquaman was made when Snyder was on the way out, he wasn't its director. Him being a producer means nothing, what did he actually do with the production? Of course.

Aquaman was quite lukewarm in the DC circles, it was not well liked for being like MCU films. It made have made a billion but it is not a great DC film. Man of Steel is and the trend keeps growing for Man of Steel. The more people get older, the more they like Man of Steel. Can you say the same for Fiege's films and Aquaman?

His subplots were a poorly written, confusing mess. Snyder's like Michael Bay, he excels at making things explode and action sequences not storytelling.

Why is everyone bringing up Michael Bay, there is no Snyder film that is as explosive as Michael Bay films with constant action sequences and no story telling, those are the Fiege Avengers films. Snyder could contain things more with better looking effects than the Fiege and Bay films.

Snyder wasn't completely powerless in the DCEU, he was the face of the franchise for a big period and wasn't an expendable cog like Ayer was. They didn't kick Snyder out of the editing room on any of his movies.

Now he is back as the face of the franchise with this CUT. WB definitely had some regrets firing him, they would not be releasing the cut if they didn't.

[Jokerz79]

Snyder had a strong distinctive movie record before the DCEU. It could be controversial but it was what defined him as a director. His movies from 300 and Watchmen have all been a lot more influential than the MCU Fiege movies that are rarely attributed to as movies in the industry. Snyder is a real director to say the least, even with his flaws. Fiege isn't.




Aquaman was quite lukewarm in the DC circles, it was not well liked for being like MCU films. It made have made a billion but it is not a great DC film. Man of Steel is and the trend keeps growing for Man of Steel. The more people get older, the more they like Man of Steel. Can you say the same for Fiege's films and Aquaman?



Why is everyone bringing up Michael Bay, there is no Snyder film that is as explosive as Michael Bay films with constant action sequences and no story telling, those are the Fiege Avengers films. Snyder could contain things more with better looking effects than the Fiege and Bay films.



Now he is back as the face of the franchise with this CUT. WB definitely had some regrets firing him, they would not be releasing the cut if they didn't.

You're not serious are you, Snyder more influential than Feige? Ever since Avengers (2012) every studio in Hollywood has been trying to copy the MCU.

Aquaman is well received in DC circles while Man of Steel isn't even considered the best Superman movie by many fans that's still Donner's 1978 Superman.

Superman is my favorite DC character and like most I felt nothing when he died in BvS yet the MCU have made people care about the Deaths of Groot, Yondu, the Snap Victims, Natasha, and Tony. So story telling wise Feige beats Snyder who is known for his visuals and spectacles like Michael Bay.

[Alan2099]

Aquaman was quite lukewarm in the DC circles, it was not well liked for being like MCU films. It made have made a billion but it is not a great DC film. Man of Steel is and the trend keeps growing for Man of Steel. The more people get older, the more they like Man of Steel. Can you say the same for Fiege's films and Aquaman?

I can't say that of Aquaman. I can't even say that of Man of Steel.

Superman is my favorite DC character and like most I felt nothing when he died in BvS yet the MCU have made people care about the Deaths of Groot, Yondu, the Snap Victims, Natasha, and Tony. So story telling wise Feige beats Snyder who is known for his visuals and spectacles like Michael Bay.

This is the biggest proof that you need that Snyder dropped the ball.

He killed Superman... and nobody cared.

Meanwhile, in the Marvel Universe, the death of a a talking tree that nobody had heard of before this movie and who can only say three words moved people.

[Castle]

You're not serious are you, Snyder more influential than Feige? Ever since Avengers (2012) every studio in Hollywood has been trying to copy the MCU.

Hollywood is trying to copy Feige. You never mentioned any director trying to copy him to better the quality of the industry because nobody is.

Fiege is not a director or an artier producer. He is a sales man for Disney products. Snyder is still respected in the industry, Bay you are bringing down is also respected to some extent.

Aquaman is well received in DC circles while Man of Steel isn't even considered the best Superman movie by many fans that's still Donner's 1978 Superman.

Aquaman was lukewarm in DC circles. Those in DC circles were not onboard with DC films becoming like MCU films and The Snyder Cut Release is a testament to that. The movement to release the cut worked.

Superman is my favorite DC character and like most I felt nothing when he died in BvS yet the MCU have made people care about the Deaths of Groot, Yondu, the Snap Victims, Natasha, and Tony. So story telling wise Feige beats Snyder who is known for his visuals and spectacles like Michael Bay.

Urgh, trying to convince me that MCU is better than DC. The only story telling in marvel movies are from the X-Men films and The first Spiderman films.

Avengers 1, 2, 3 and 4 all had bigger action sequences and spectacles than the Snyder films and for a longer period in the film. In praise of Snyder, he introduced some interesting topic stories with Man of Steel and Batman v Superman unlike Feige movies that are as brainless as the Michael Bay films. The Justice League Cut will be worth it for that alone.

[Castle]

I can't say that of Aquaman. I can't even say that of Man of Steel.


This is the biggest proof that you need that Snyder dropped the ball.

He killed Superman... and nobody cared.

I have to disagree with this. You can also say the snap killed everyone in the MCU and nobody cared because we knew they were coming back with time travel.

People did care about Superman dying,Superman dying started a conversation of the direction of DC movies.

[Alan2099]

I have to disagree with this. You can also say the snap killed everyone in the MCU and nobody cared because we knew they were coming back with time travel.

People did care about Superman dying,Superman dying started a conversation of the direction of DC movies.

You can disagree.

I won't hold being wrong against you.

[Username taken]

You can disagree.

I won't hold being wrong against you.

See the posters post count.

Don’t feed them...

[Castle]

You can disagree.

I won't hold being wrong against you.

Superman dying did cause some ripple effects. positive or negative it doesn't matter but it was effective.

The only disagreement that has come to matter is DC and Snyder fans disagreed with WB on the treatment of JL and they won. WB agreed to release the CUT, Right or Wrong this is a big victory.

2021 cannot come sooner.